Yes, you CAN play a peaceful game (usually), even at Emperor difficulty

I see these threads from time to time, exclaiming that there is a way to keep the other civs happy. I don't dispute that. However, regardless of the fact that you can play in a very limited manner to stay friendly with some of the civs some of the time, the diplomacy system is still completely broken.

1 - Civs will hate you for doing what they ask you to do (such as declaring war their enemy, at their request, or post-patch for denouncing their enemy who is your friend)

2 - A single denouncement from a third-party civ will do more to harm relations than 100 turns of peaceful trading with another civ.

3 - you can't use diplomacy to improve poor diplomatic relations. Once they dislike you, you are hated forever. This is the most broken aspect. The whole point of diplomacy in the real world is to heal rifts. Can't do it in this game at all.

4 - Civs hate you when others declare war on you.

5 - civs hate you when a friend backstabs you.

6 - civs hate it when they settle near you.

The broken aspects of diplomacy far outweigh the limited ways that the system works.

This is a pretty good summary. At this point the only way I can enjoy the game is just to be the total bastard and bully the AI civs. This produces more predictable results. They hate me but fear my armies and my DoW.

The ironic thing is that I find that I get far more unwanted DoWs when I play a nice guy with a solid military than I get desired DoWs (desired because the AI will send its armies away from its cities for slaughter) when I play the bully.
 
I don't know what y'all are doing that you fail at diplomacy so reliably, but my experience has been completely the opposite.

:p
 
This is understandable when the only victory condition is Domination, but it makes less sense if the AI isn't going for a domination victory.

Its nothing short of cringe worthy when Gandhi of all people invades you even if he has spent most of the game as your trusted friend simply because he took one look at your army and then concluded that you are too weak to be worthy of your existence.

So much for different AI personalities.

I disagree. Your capital is almost always a tasty city to conquer. It usually has wonders, and very often access to two more resources, and rarely three. If you're weak, it's generally worth taking your capital, even if not going for a Domination Victory, as this ensures in the short term, that you can't go Domination Victor either.

And for the record, I've won plenty of peaceful games, and I've succeeded in preventing all the AI's from DoW on me.
 
same game as my earlier post. The aztecs that were friendly to me for the entire game just turned on me. I took a city state before but had checked their demeanour for a few turns aftwerwards and nothing chnaged (no red modifiers) BUT they did change their language 'bloodthirsty, etc'. I may have also built a wonder but nothing very important, I think it was the Louvre.

So they went from zero negative views of me to:
Covet my lands (no extra land settled by me, only natural border growth)
Covet my wonders
War!
We denouced you
....its a long list

I was quite confused, particularly about the land coveting, it seems they changed their minds after filling their available lands. I knew it would end up like this because we are neighbours (rule #4) but I thought it might be gradual. The only thing I can think of is that the very rich Siam who HATES me is bribing people to declare war on me as its always at least 2 at a time.
 
I think some of us are complaining about it being difficult to be peaceful because the 'Friend' mechanic is broken.

Right now not making any pacts of friendship seems to be safer than making any.
 
Just finished a cultural victory Rome/Standard map/continents/emperor. Except for Abe Lincoln, who declared war on me (he was separated by China from me, so no real threat), all the other civs were at peace with me throughout the whole game. They were hostile, to which I always replied "Very well". Two or three denounced me. I kept trading luxuries with them, don't know if that's a factor?

It is actually quite surprising that nobody else DOWed me, considering I had all but 3 wonders. I had four cities, a small (~3 units) army on my borders, late game 1-2 destroyers. Of course I had Oligarchy+Himeji castle - again, maybe that's a factor? Only direct (land) neighbour was China.


(btw, the trick to build a lot of wonders is to concentrate all the wonders providing GE points in the capital, add a garden+national monument ASAP, build Hagia Sophia, buy workshop+windmill+factory asap and occupy them by specialists, adopt democracy - one can then have quite a bit of great engineers=build quite a bit of wonders)

Good wonder tips there, but I'm still impressed by your figure for an Emperor game. Yeah, you can GE farm like that, but not in the early game? How did you beat the AI to all the early ones? I usually prioritize GL, Oracle and maybe Pyramids, but on emperor I'm never able to snag any other ancient wonders when I'm going for those.

Do tell.
 
I think some of us are complaining about it being difficult to be peaceful because the 'Friend' mechanic is broken.

Right now not making any pacts of friendship seems to be safer than making any.

I think you have to be selective about which friendships you cultivate. In my last big game I had a multi-party alliance that lasted through three eras, but toward the industrial era it started to break down. Then you have to choose sides.

It gets messy, but world politics should, no? I wouldn't want the dispositions to remain fixed for an entire game. Too dry.
 
I'd like to ask the OP if he can provide us with a detailed emperor or above post patch game that explains with details (even the slightest ones) what he did in order to remain at peace for at least 90% of the game (except 1-2 defensive wars or something).

It could be in a form of a story or a strategy (I guess that it would go to the strategies section, if it was in such a form).
 
I just won a cultural victory on a standard size map with 16 civs, on normal speed. edit: King difficulty - pre-patch I played Emperor but bumped it down post-patch, will probably go back up again soon though.

I was never at war, never denounced anybody, and was never denounced by anybody. Every single other civ was friendly with me - Songhai were hostile when we first met right at the start, but turned friendly and kept bugging me for pacts of friendship. Mongolia were "guarded" in the renaissance but were then wiped out, and for some reason Siam turned "guarded" right at the very end, but other than that all 16 civs were "friendly" the entire game. I only signed one friendship, with Russia early on, but refused all else. Very rarely signed open borders, and usually only if it both directly benefited me and was with a distant civ. Signed heaps of research agreements, more for the science than the diplomacy, until about the renaissance when I became 100% focused on culture, and had 2 spare sugars which I traded liberally. If Russia asked for anything to honour our friendship I gave it to her. edit: also I only had 2 cities the entire game, but I always play with very few cities, on very crowded maps. Pre-patch I would play with 20 civs on a standard map, but I dialled it back while I get used to the new diplomacy. I was worried that my capital might be a juicy target for greedy AIs as it had heaps of wonders in it, but that never seemed to happen. I was comfortably top of the scoreboard until about the renaissance when I started to slip and by the end I was in about the middle.

You are definitely supposed to be selective about friendships. That's why they ask you for stuff. If you don't want AI always pestering to give you stuff, don't sign friendships. Plus if you ever end up going to war with a friend, it's pretty much game over for you diplomatically. I think that is one of the main reason that relations always collapse by the end of the game - one AI betrays a friend, which causes other AIs to denounce it, including its friends, which then causes other AIs to denounce them and so on and so on. I would like to see AIs much more hesitant to denounce friends (and by the same token, more hesitant to sign friendships).

I still prefer the pre-patch diplomacy (of which I was a vocal supporter) because the post-patch diplomacy is so linear, you can't cancel anything so you can't have shifting alliances, only a gradual entropy towards an all-out brawl. The only thing you can really do is either pick a side and pray, or do what I did and try to stay out of it completely. Making co-operation public is good and having a denounce option is fine, but I miss pact of secrecy. It felt more like you were actively manipulating relationships, where if you wanted to go to war with a civ, you'd ask around for people to sign pacts of secrecy so that they'd be on your side. If nobody would sign a PoS maybe you would re-think going to war. Post-patch all you can do is denounce them and hope that your friends denounce them too. Then from that point on you are stuck denouncing them for the rest of the game.

If PoS was added back in, DoF were cancelable, and Denouncing was made temporary, then I would love the diplomacy.

edit: one other thing - I never built a single trading post either! So I seem to be doing everything wrong according to the general view of Civ5. I am a dove-builder and thoroughly enjoy my peaceful victories.
 
I enjoy an OCC once in a while, but find it pretty much totally broken that you aren't supposed to build any significant number of cities, or research too many techs, or build too many wonders, or control too much turf.

It isn't that we're terrible at the game, we just don't like playing in a cramped, arbitrary, and not-fun cringing style - and still have random hatred from the other civs anyhow.
 
I don't know. This is kind of frowned on in the real world. Germany was aggressor in WWII. Still, US/GB/France gave back land. USSR didn't. (It's more complicated than that, I know, but I think that is the best "civ" approximation of the events.) I don't think that "completely understandable" counts for much in real world politics/diplomacy.
Well in real world you don't have to physically occupy your enemy's territory. Just install a puppet & it will be Ok most of the time. See how US tried to install a puppet in Afghanistan (but failed badly).
 
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