You and the Atomic Bomb

eyrei

Deity
Retired Moderator
Joined
Nov 1, 2001
Messages
9,186
Location
Durham, NC USA
This is a very interesting essay by George Orwell, who may have managed to accurately predict our current global predicament.

CONSIDERING how likely we all are to be blown to pieces by it within the next five years, the atomic bomb has not roused so much discussion as might have been expected. The newspapers have published numerous diagrams, not very helpful to the average man, of protons and neutrons doing their stuff, and there has been much reiteration of the useless statement that the bomb ‘ought to be put under international control.’ But curiously little has been said, at any rate in print, about the question that is of most urgent interest to all of us, namely: ‘How difficult are these things to manufacture?’
Such information as we—that is, the big public—possess on this subject has come to us in a rather indirect way, apropos of President Truman’s decision not to hand over certain secrets to the USSR. Some months ago, when the bomb was still only a rumour, there was a widespread belief that splitting the atom was merely a problem for the physicists, and that when they had solved it a new and devastating weapon would be within reach of almost everybody. (At any moment, so the rumour went, some lonely lunatic in a laboratory might blow civilisation to smithereens, as easily as touching off a firework.)

Had that been true, the whole trend of history would have been abruptly altered. The distinction between great states and small states would have been wiped out, and the power of the State over the individual would have been greatly weakened. However, it appears from President Truman’s remarks, and various comments that have been made on them, that the bomb is fantastically expensive and that its manufacture demands an enormous industrial effort, such as only three or four countries in the world are capable of making. This point is of cardinal importance, because it may mean that the discovery of the atomic bomb, so far from reversing history, will simply intensify the trends which have been apparent for a dozen years past.

It is a commonplace that the history of civilisation is largely the history of weapons. In particular, the connection between the discovery of gunpowder and the overthrow of feudalism by the bourgeoisie has been pointed out over and over again. And though I have no doubt exceptions can be brought forward, I think the following rule would be found generally true: that ages in which the dominant weapon is expensive or difficult to make will tend to be ages of despotism, whereas when the dominant weapon is cheap and simple, the common people have a chance. Thus, for example, tanks, battleships and bombing planes are inherently tyrannical weapons, while rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon—so long as there is no answer to it—gives claws to the weak.

The great age of democracy and of national self-determination was the age of the musket and the rifle. After the invention of the flintlock, and before the invention of the percussion cap, the musket was a fairly efficient weapon, and at the same time so simple that it could be produced almost anywhere. Its combination of qualities made possible the success of the American and French revolutions, and made a popular insurrection a more serious business than it could be in our own day. After the musket came the breech-loading rifle. This was a comparatively complex thing, but it could still be produced in scores of countries, and it was cheap, easily smuggled and economical of ammunition. Even the most backward nation could always get hold of rifles from one source or another, so that Boers, Bulgars, Abyssinians, Moroccans—even Tibetans—could put up a fight for their independence, sometimes with success. But thereafter every development in military technique has favoured the State as against the individual, and the industrialised country as against the backward one. There are fewer and fewer foci of power. Already, in 1939, there were only five states capable of waging war on the grand scale, and now there are only three—ultimately, perhaps, only two. This trend has been obvious for years, and was pointed out by a few observers even before 1914. The one thing that might reverse it is the discovery of a weapon—or, to put it more broadly, of a method of fighting—not dependent on huge concentrations of industrial plant.

From various symptoms one can infer that the Russians do not yet possess the secret of making the atomic bomb; on the other hand, the consensus of opinion seems to be that they will possess it within a few years. So we have before us the prospect of two or three monstrous super-states, each possessed of a weapon by which millions of people can be wiped out in a few seconds, dividing the world between them. It has been rather hastily assumed that this means bigger and bloodier wars, and perhaps an actual end to the machine civilisation. But suppose—and really this the likeliest development—that the surviving great nations make a tacit agreement never to use the atomic bomb against one another? Suppose they only use it, or the threat of it, against people who are unable to retaliate? In that case we are back where we were before, the only difference being that power is concentrated in still fewer hands and that the outlook for subject peoples and oppressed classes is still more hopeless.

When James Burnham wrote The Managerial Revolution it seemed probable to many Americans that the Germans would win the European end of the war, and it was therefore natural to assume that Germany and not Russia would dominate the Eurasian land mass, while Japan would remain master of East Asia. This was a miscalculation, but it does not affect the main argument. For Burnham’s geographical picture of the new world has turned out to be correct. More and more obviously the surface of the earth is being parceled off into three great empires, each self-contained and cut off from contact with the outer world, and each ruled, under one disguise or another, by a self-elected oligarchy. The haggling as to where the frontiers are to be drawn is still going on, and will continue for some years, and the third of the three super-states—East Asia, dominated by China—is still potential rather than actual. But the general drift is unmistakable, and every scientific discovery of recent years has accelerated it.

We were once told that the aeroplane had ‘abolished frontiers’; actually it is only since the aeroplane became a serious weapon that frontiers have become definitely impassable. The radio was once expected to promote international understanding and co-operation; it has turned out to be a means of insulating one nation from another. The atomic bomb may complete the process by robbing the exploited classes and peoples of all power to revolt, and at the same time putting the possessors of the bomb on a basis of military equality. Unable to conquer one another, they are likely to continue ruling the world between them, and it is difficult to see how the balance can be upset except by slow and unpredictable demographic changes.

For forty or fifty years past, Mr. H. G. Wells and others have been warning us that man is in danger of destroying himself with his own weapons, leaving the ants or some other gregarious species to take over. Anyone who has seen the ruined cities of Germany will find this notion at least thinkable. Nevertheless, looking at the world as a whole, the drift for many decades has been not towards anarchy but towards the reimposition of slavery. We may be heading not for general breakdown but for an epoch as horribly stable as the slave empires of antiquity. James Burnham’s theory has been much discussed, but few people have yet considered its ideological implications—that is, the kind of world-view, the kind of beliefs, and the social structure that would probably prevail in a state which was at once unconquerable and in a permanent state of ‘cold war’ with its neighbors.

Had the atomic bomb turned out to be something as cheap and easily manufactured as a bicycle or an alarm clock, it might well have plunged us back into barbarism, but it might, on the other hand, have meant the end of national sovereignty and of the highly-centralised police state. If, as seems to be the case, it is a rare and costly object as difficult to produce as a battleship, it is likelier to put an end to large-scale wars at the cost of prolonging indefinitely a ‘peace that is no peace’.

The second to last paragraph is of particular interest regarding the USA...
 
A very interesting essay, indeed.

I will agree with it in the sense that war between nations tends to be technologically advanced, with billions of dollars spent on battleships and stealth bombers. Because of the tremendous technological knowledge required to build these machines of war, the few nations with the know-how and the cash to produce and maintain defense (and offense) forces will continue to hold the upper hand. I read a biography of Ronald Reagan (by Dinesh D'Souza) in which he claimed that the history of the twentieth century in general was that of increased power of the State. This, I think, is quite true considering the rism of fascism and Soviet communism. Even the USA was run less freely during the Cold War than a democracy should probably be (McCarthy? Dulles? J. Edgar Hoover?).

However, there is a form of warfare that trumps the expensive wars run by powerful nations: the guerilla warfare. It promises that the Iberian Peninsula will be free of Napoleons, Afghanistan will be free of Soviets, Vietnam will be free of Americans, and showed long ago that USA would not tolerate British rule. It is now showing that even with their superior weapons and money, America hasn't subdued the Iraqi resistance.

In general, this rise of militarism helps the State hold power, as it has as Orwell pointed out. However, the people will always fight for a cause they feel is right with whatever weapon they can grab when the circumstances are dire enough.
 
I find it amusing that he writes that "the great age of democracy and of national self-determination was the age of the musket and the rifle."

The first democracies were extremely limited in their suffrage. Male white landowners at first represented these republics.

The atomic bomb, with the exception of the final days of World War II, has not been used and between the world's major powers is no longer taken seriously as a threat. When was the last time you were worried about Russian nuclear ambitions? Orwell mistakenly believes that we would employ this weapon against lesser-powered enemies.

If that is the case, why did the French not use this power in Algeria and Israel against the Lebanese and Syrians? We have invaded or vowed to protect several countries (Vietnam, Korea, Kuwait, etc.) over the last 50 years and we didn't use our power of the atomic weapon once.

Had we authorized the use of these weapons today, Stalin and his armies would have been wiped off the face of the earth and Chiang kai Shek would've swept the Kuomintang to victory in the Chinese Civil War. We didn't do it, though.
 
rmsharpe said:
I find it amusing that he writes that "the great age of democracy and of national self-determination was the age of the musket and the rifle."

The first democracies were extremely limited in their suffrage. Male white landowners at first represented these republics.

The atomic bomb, with the exception of the final days of World War II, has not been used and between the world's major powers is no longer taken seriously as a threat. When was the last time you were worried about Russian nuclear ambitions? Orwell mistakenly believes that we would employ this weapon against lesser-powered enemies.

If that is the case, why did the French not use this power in Algeria and Israel against the Lebanese and Syrians? We have invaded or vowed to protect several countries (Vietnam, Korea, Kuwait, etc.) over the last 50 years and we didn't use our power of the atomic weapon once.

Had we authorized the use of these weapons today, Stalin and his armies would have been wiped off the face of the earth and Chiang kai Shek would've swept the Kuomintang to victory in the Chinese Civil War. We didn't do it, though.

You may be missing that he wasn't just referring to the atomic weapons, but any weapons that only a few countries are capable of producing. These weapons provide an advantage that is insurmountable in most warfare scenarios. The aircraft carrier and the stealth bomber are two examples.

And it isn't in their deployment that Orwell sees atomic weapons perpetuating a certain power structure, but the threat of the deployment.

Your point is well taken regarding the white landowners, but Orwell is blatantly anglo-centric at times, and I think he even admitted it on occasion.

Regardless, what is so interesting about the essay are the questions it raises about the consequences of such a power structure.
 
I think Orwell's article looks at the development of weapons from the wrong viewpoint.

The great age of democracy and of national self-determination was the age of the musket and the rifle.
The musket and rifle are simple to build from our viewpoint. But at the time when a musket was a modern weapon, it wasn't simple at all. It was certainly more complicated than the weapons of the Feudal Ages: swords and bows. Those weapons were simpler than muskets--and yet the Feudal Age was definitely not one of freedom and self-determination. The worldwide trend for most of history has been one towards greater freedoms, AND more complicated weapons.

A weapon that's simple and cheap for the masses to build doesn't lead to greater freedoms--because an oppressive government can always build more of them than a dissident faction can. And, in modern times, totalitarian states have been able to eliminate the threat of guerilla warfare (despite the existence of cheap weapons) simply by abandoning morality. Why are there no guerilla/terrorist attacks against oppressive governments such as China? Because the government will kill you, your family, your friends, your neighbors, your dog, and everybody else you hold dear if you try.

And I disagree with Eyrei (big surprise there :) ) on that second-to-last paragraph:
Nevertheless, looking at the world as a whole, the drift for many decades has been not towards anarchy but towards the reimposition of slavery. We may be heading not for general breakdown but for an epoch as horribly stable as the slave empires of antiquity.
Since Iraq War #2 started, a very common argument against the invasion was: "well, yeah--Saddam's regime was a brutal one, but at least it was a stable one". The source of our supposed movement towards slavery is not specific to the U.S.--it's worldwide. The majority all over the world opposed taking down a brutal dictator by force.

The majority, worldwide, prefers slavery over breakdown.
 
rmsharpe said:
I fail to see the problem. That is the result of technological progress.

I think his point is that the technological advancement of weaponry (and probably other areas as well) is making popular revolutions in many countries nearly impossible, which can easily lead to fascism or its like. I'm not certain I agree with him, though he had a good example (Nazi Germany) right in front of him.

Its a difficult concept, and I'm tired, so I think I'll try again tomorrow...
 
It was this part that got me:
Had the atomic bomb turned out to be something as cheap and easily manufactured as a bicycle or an alarm clock, it might well have plunged us back into barbarism, but it might, on the other hand, have meant the end of national sovereignty and of the highly-centralised police state. If, as seems to be the case, it is a rare and costly object as difficult to produce as a battleship, it is likelier to put an end to large-scale wars at the cost of prolonging indefinitely a ‘peace that is no peace’.
We had an era of stability, but history teaches us that the progress of technology tends to make things easier and cheaper to build (as basketcase point out). Will this become the case with atomic weapons I wonder?
 
BasketCase said:
I think Orwell's article looks at the development of weapons from the wrong viewpoint.


The musket and rifle are simple to build from our viewpoint. But at the time when a musket was a modern weapon, it wasn't simple at all. It was certainly more complicated than the weapons of the Feudal Ages: swords and bows. Those weapons were simpler than muskets--and yet the Feudal Age was definitely not one of freedom and self-determination. The worldwide trend for most of history has been one towards greater freedoms, AND more complicated weapons.

It was, however, still quite possible for a developing territory without much infrastructure (the American colonies) to manufacture those weapons with relative ease in order to fight a war. This is not he case with much of the modern weaponry produced by the preeminent nations in the world today.

A weapon that's simple and cheap for the masses to build doesn't lead to greater freedoms--because an oppressive government can always build more of them than a dissident faction can. And, in modern times, totalitarian states have been able to eliminate the threat of guerilla warfare (despite the existence of cheap weapons) simply by abandoning morality. Why are there no guerilla/terrorist attacks against oppressive governments such as China? Because the government will kill you, your family, your friends, your neighbors, your dog, and everybody else you hold dear if you try.

I don't think Orwell was talking about totalitarian governments getting more totalitarian. ;)

And I disagree with Eyrei (big surprise there :) ) on that second-to-last paragraph:

Since Iraq War #2 started, a very common argument against the invasion was: "well, yeah--Saddam's regime was a brutal one, but at least it was a stable one". The source of our supposed movement towards slavery is not specific to the U.S.--it's worldwide. The majority all over the world opposed taking down a brutal dictator by force.

The majority, worldwide, prefers slavery over breakdown.

We don't disagree here. And I think this may have been part of Orwell's point as well. The US is just an easy example.
 
eyrei said:
I think his point is that the technological advancement of weaponry (and probably other areas as well) is making popular revolutions in many countries nearly impossible, which can easily lead to fascism or its like. I'm not certain I agree with him, though he had a good example (Nazi Germany) right in front of him.

Its a difficult concept, and I'm tired, so I think I'll try again tomorrow...
The people ruled over by the Soviet Union and it's puppet regimes revolted and (albeit eventually) freed themselves. That had less to do with the fact that Russia owned the atomic bomb but more that the Soviet government was so pervasive in every citizen's life that dissent was virtually impossible.

Ceausescu could have had all of the jet fighters, tanks, and artillery in the world, but it didn't stop him from getting a rather informal funeral. Repression and slavery are very low-tech.
 
rmsharpe said:
The people ruled over by the Soviet Union and it's puppet regimes revolted and (albeit eventually) freed themselves. That had less to do with the fact that Russia owned the atomic bomb but more that the Soviet government was so pervasive in every citizen's life that dissent was virtually impossible.

Ceausescu could have had all of the jet fighters, tanks, and artillery in the world, but it didn't stop him from getting a rather informal funeral. Repression and slavery are very low-tech.

You are making the same mistake that Basketcase did. Orwell wasn't talking about the effects of such things on already totalitarian governments, but on democracies. I think...
 
I can't complaing about the atomic bomb because i owe my existance to it. My grandfather was on a Navy Transport heading throught the Panama Canal in August of 1945, making for Japan...
 
I think this isn't just about the system in individual countries; obviously no country would use nuclear weapons against an insurrection. This is about preserving world order. Nations with the technological and economic capability to produce nuclear weapons will continue to hold the top spot on the diplomatic table. A nuclear weapon isn't exactly easy to build; you would need to acquire massive amounts of uranium, have a substantial power source to enrich it to weapons-grade, and a way to detonate it when you want to. None of this is simple. However, it causes other nations to respect and fear you more than they already did (and if you have this sort of arsenal, chances are, you were already respected).

This is where the government comes in. I cannot make a nuclear weapon. I do not have access to several pounds of weapons-grade uranium or several pounds of plutonium. I do not have a breeder reactor in my backyard that I can make plutonium from. I do not know anyone who would sell me a large amount of uranium. A government has all of those things, as well as a team of scientists working out the exact enrichment of the fissile material, means of delivery, etc. Nuclear weapons are a sign that a government is already very strong. Actually building the weapon is merely an additional show of force, just to get the point across.

If the world is tending toward fascism, Cold War, and slavery, as Orwell suggests, governments building nuclear weapons will only continue the trend. Nuclear weapons are the ultimate weapon of the State. Only weapons of the people will stop that trend.

Post 1,000! :beer:
 
eyrei said:
You are making the same mistake that Basketcase did. Orwell wasn't talking about the effects of such things on already totalitarian governments, but on democracies. I think...
If that's true, then why would Orwell want people to revolt against democracies in the first place?
 
rmsharpe said:
If that's true, then why would Orwell want people to revolt against democracies in the first place?

Quite the opposite. He said that access to more sophisticated weapons will strengthen the position of the elite, thereby paving the way for fascism. The sophistication in weaponry - because the production of sophisticated weapons requires a state apparatus - would render a popular revolution difficult.
 
Another thing I'd like to point out is that most of the repressive regimes in the world today are Third World nations.
 
eyrei said:
I think his point is that the technological advancement of weaponry (and probably other areas as well) is making popular revolutions in many countries nearly impossible, which can easily lead to fascism or its like. I'm not certain I agree with him, though he had a good example (Nazi Germany) right in front of him.

Its a difficult concept, and I'm tired, so I think I'll try again tomorrow...
He could be right.

Though I tend to think Guy Debord's old 60's classic "The Society of the Spectacle" might get at this tendency of our societal order getting set in its ways but from a different angle.

Debord's argument (roughly) isn't that we're headed for a stable slave-society like in antiquity.
Instead approaching a medieval situation, with considerable action on a surface political level, but without anyone questioning the basic social structure of our societies — just like the Middle Ages.

Eyeri:
Have you read it? http://www.bopsecrets.org/SI/debord/
 
Two hydrogen atoms were talking:

First Atom: "I've lost my electron!"
Second Atom: "You sure?"
First Atom: "Yes I'm positive!"

:mischief: :nospam:
 
Hmm? Orwell and Debord are closet mysanthropes- always tranversing in their own paradox.That is how they made their living,with the help of fools who believe them.If i were u guys,dont spend too much on insanity.
 
rmsharpe said:
If that's true, then why would Orwell want people to revolt against democracies in the first place?

Because Orwell, like many intellectuals, sees democracy in a historical context. Governments tend to change over time, and often for the better (though obviously not always)..
 
Back
Top Bottom