You ask where the problem lies with Muslims supporting Shariah ? Here it is . . . .

[aneeshm]

This is related to the thread saying that 40 % of British Muslims want the Shariah law . Lots of people were saying that to understand the Muslim mindset which may lead to a support of Shariah , we must look at it through their eyes - understand this :

Link

UP Shariat court issues death decree for Danish cartoonist

February 20, 2006 18:06 IST
Last Updated: February 20, 2006 18:26 IST

Close on the heels of a Uttar Pradesh minister announcing a cash reward of Rs 51 crore (Rs 510 million) to the person beheading the Danish cartoonist who caricatured Prophet Mohammad in a Danish newspaper, a Shariat court in the state has issued a religious decree sentencing the cartoonist to death.

The decree was issued on behalf of the Idar-e-Sharia Darul Kaza and Ifta Firangimahal Taksal (Islamic courts) by their qazi (priest) on Sunday.

The qazi said it has been clearly stated in the Quran that whosoever hurt the Prophet deserved to be sternly punished.

Asked whether the fatwa has any significance in India, where Islamic laws do not apply, he said, "It is applicable wherever Muslims live".

He claimed he was authorised to issue the fatwa in his capacity as the qazi of the city and he had been doing so for many years.

Muslim clerics on the other hand said though the fatwa was legitimate according to Islamic law, it had little significance in India.

All India United Muslim Morcha Vice-President M A Siddique said Islamic courts were authorised to issue fatwas but it did not apply to a country where Islamic law was not in force.

All India Muslim Personal Law Board spokesman S Q R Iliyasi said the fatwa had no significance in India.

UP Minister for Haj Mohammad Yaqoob Qureshi last week announced a cash reward for whoever beheaded the cartoonist.

A related article :

What's the Indian State's fault in the cartoon controversy?

February 21, 2006

There have been rows and rows over insults to religious sentiments of the many groups that make up the Indian mosaic. Off the top of my mind I can easily rattle off a few: A company in the United States put Hindu deities on toilet covers; someone else put them on footwear; while another put them on underwear. Only last week, there was a report about a European company putting Durga images on beer bottles.

Those are by no means it. For a more detailed account, you can go to Hindunet.org and get the whole lowdown on how Hindu gods and goddesses have been shamed in various countries at various times.

I can understand the sentiments that are hurt, even though I don't believe faith is so weak as to come tumbling down because of such acts born out of ignorance. Personally I don't give a damn, probably I will wince once at reports of such stupidity, tell myself 'forgive them my lord, for they know not what they do', and move on.

A healthy practice, I have always believed, but prudent? I have been harbouring serious misgivings over that of late in the light of the snowballing row over the Prophet cartoons.

The row, let's get it straight, has nothing to do with India. The cartoons appeared in a European country, and does not violate any of the laws prevailing there. Yet, look at the protests that are mushrooming across the Indian landscape, from Kashmir to Hyderabad, taking in Uttar Pradesh and other regions on the way.

In the protests in UP, a state where the government is precariously perched and could see elections anytime, a five-star hotel was vandalised by the protestors. And, in a first of its kind in independent India, a Samajwadi Party minister offered a bounty of Rs 51 crore on the cartoonist's head, plus gold -- which will be raised from the Muslim community.

And now, a Shariat court has ordered the cartoonist's death under Islamic law.

Amidst all this, one can be forgiven for believing s/he is not living in a secular democracy but in some medieval kingdom to our west.

I have the deepest sympathies for those offended by the cartoons, as I have for those offended by other similar portrayals, but I have always held that calling for censorship in the face of such expression is an assault on the freedoms we profess and which set us apart, and that democracies all over must band together to keep out such demands and stick by each other.

Why is public property in India being damaged over the hurt sentiments, why is the Indian legal process being subverted by extra-official authorities who are issuing edicts? Why is an Indian minister, sworn to uphold the Indian Constitution, abetting murder and why is no action being taken against him?

What exactly is the Indian State's fault in the cartoon controversy? That it is home to the second largest Muslim population in the world, because of which it must be subject to every ebb and flow in the Muslim world?

A related query: when Hindu deities were being, correction, are being defiled in many parts of the world, how come Hindus in India, from where the faith originated, never demonstrated although they must number a billion, how come the religious heads did not issue any edict like 'off with his head' etc? In the light of the cartoons row, wouldn't such behaviour have made sense?

Now that I have raised some uncomfortable questions, let me brace for the inevitable charge that will follow, that I am a closet Hindu fundamentalist, someone who is entirely bereft of feelings for the minority community's feelings, and who is so blinded by his prejudice that he cannot see the full picture. Which is that Islam does not recognise national boundaries; Muslims all over are one community; what affects them in one corner of the world affects everyone equally; since 9/11, the faith and its practitioners have been branded as a terrorist bunch, and the cartoons are the latest in a long line of the Western/Free World's refusal to accept its religious icons and so on.

Sure, there's a stereotype in place, why just about the Muslim community but about all communities. And the Muslims who are protesting out on the streets, damaging public property, calling for death etc are doing their faith, or their cause, no good; on the contrary, their behaviour only reinforces the stereotype. I wish the community will stop blaming the world at large for its many ills and pause to look within.

Why am I saying all this now? Because I notice a disturbing similarity with the past in the present protests that threaten to snowball. Because I don't think the United Progressive Alliance government is looking at the greater danger its inaction, I daresay actual encouragement, in the face of challenges to the Indian State, is doing to the nation.

Last week a colleague and I were in Bangalore to interview Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, spiritual guru and founder of the Art of Living Foundation, on AoL's 25 years. Among the questions we asked him was if he still believed, as he did four years ago, that a Hindu cannot be a fundamentalist. And this what he said:

'Fundamentalism in one religion will cast a shadow over the other religion as well. You can't expect one religion to not have fundamentalism if it's there in other religions.' You can accept the wisdom therein, or pour scorn over it and move on.

Now rewind to the late 1980s. It was the time of the Congress government under Rajiv Gandhi and his brute majority in the Lok Sabha, and the Bharatiya Janata Party was a decimated lot, with just two MPs. The main Opposition party then was the Telugu Desam Party, actor N T Rama Rao's party that had withstood the mighty Rajiv wave, that's right.

In 1989, however, the Congress had lost power, the BJP had almost 90 MPs, in 1996 the BJP formed a 13-day government and from 1998 to 2004 it ruled India in league with other parties. How did that happen? The easiest answer is that it consolidated the Hindu vote.

But the truth is, it managed to prey on the misgivings in the Hindu community that in the name of secularism it was being given the short shrift, while Muslims were being pampered.

Were Muslims being pampered? They still remain on the fringes of development, so there was no real pampering in terms of jobs, benefits etc. But what gave the impression that they were a special lot was that the government bowed before the community's vocal leaders, who were mostly fundamentalist.

A series of genuflection by Rajiv Gandhi's government reinforced this belief. First was the Satanic Verses controversy. Then, as now, the community took to the streets, rallied that Islam was in danger, and the Congress government decided to ban the book even before our Islamic neighbour Pakistan had done so.

Then came the Supreme Court verdict in the Shah Bano case, where a poor old divorced woman was granted alimony by the court. The court, in passing, also pointed out that a Uniform Civil Code, envisaged by the Constitution, remained a dream despite so many years since independence.

I still recall some of the names from the dusty confines of my memory. Forest Minister Z A Ansari was one, diplomat turned politician Syed Shahabuddin was another. Many made their careers as custodians of the Muslim votebank; faced with the cry that Islam was in danger, and a fear the Muslim votes will slip away (that was before Mulayam Singh Yadav had become the community's sole guardian, mind), the Rajiv Gandhi government overturned the court verdict in Parliament.

Next, to assuage 'hurt' Hindu sentiments, the government also threw open the doors to a ramshackle mosque/temple in Ayodhya and allowed the shilanyas at the site.

As it turned out, the BJP walked away with the aggrieved Hindu votes; and V P Singh, Lalu Yadav, Mulayam Yadav et al garnered the hurt Muslim votes, and the Congress was left facing the darkest phase of its existence.

The Congress, thus, cannot escape its contribution to the BJP's growth. And I am not sure how much of the lessons from the 1980s it has learnt today. Many if not all who are in positions of authority both in the Congress party and the government were witness to the events of those days, did they not learn anything?

If they did, what is the need for us to protest with the Danish government, or for Sonia Gandhi to write to Imam Bukhari expressing her regret over the cartoons? Why oh why conduct a survey of Muslims in the defence forces, the last and only establishment to have escaped the poison our political class has injected into every single institution?

I don't recall the government or Parliament doing any of this for the many instances of religious insensitivity to singe other faiths, so why single out a case where street power is once against being mobilised?

What will it take for the Indian State to develop some steel, tell the protestors 'sure, we are sorry your sentiments are hurt, we will convey them to the Danish authorities, but beyond that we have nothing to do with the controversy, can we get on with our life here?' and enforce the Indian laws if the protests get out of hand rather than stand by and watch meekly?

Just as democracies need to huddle together in the face of terrorism, they need to also unitedly stave off attacks on liberty, both individual and collective. India cannot expect liberal democracies to come to its aid when it is fighting a war against terror on the ground, and turn its back on the same nations when it comes to a terror battle for the head and heart. And as a democracy, its interests are in tune with the West, not to our west.


Saisuresh Sivaswamy

Now can it be acknowledged that Shariah law , as it stands today , is a barbaric , medieval mix of religion and tribalist societal mores which is not worthy of being compared with the law codes of civilised countries ?

 

[aneeshm]

And there is more to come . I have made this thread expressely to post examples of the Sharia's depravity , and to foster a constructive discussion on that .

 

[El_Machinae]

You could bold relevant areas to grab my attention better. Encouraging people to skim is a great way of getting their input.

 

[King Alexander]

You can read interesting things about what religion-fanatism does at this site:http://ethnikoi.org/iran.html, and understand what would your country's law prevent/forbid/punish...
The book refers to Homeini's "Tahrirolvasyleh", which he wrote when he was in Turkey, but the fanatics-succesors of Homeini try to deny it's existance

In a Theocracy like Homeini's, no one dared to challenge the sickness of the mind of a religious leader, and it seems until today things aren't getting better:
"In June, 2002 Iranian authorities approved a law raising the age at which girls can marry without parental consent from 9 to 13. The elected legislature actually passed the bill in 2000, but the "Guardian Council", a 12-man body of conservative clerics, vetoed it as contradicting Islamic Sharia law. "

The book was originally written in Arabic, as it was aiming all the arabic world(Homeini had big plans, as it seems).
There's also a downloable version of Tahrirolvasyleh here:http://www.ethnikoi.org/tahrir.zip

A few highlights...

"In Iran, stoning a person to death is not against the law. Using the wrong stone is."

"If a man sodomises the son, brother, or father of his wife after their marriage, the marriage remains valid. "

"A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate vaginally, but sodomising the child is acceptable. If a man does penetrate and damage the child then, he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl will not count as one of his four permanent wives and the man will not be eligible to marry the girl's sister... It is better for a girl to marry at such a time when she would begin menstruation at her husband's house, rather than her father's home. Any father marrying his daughter so young will have a permanent place in heaven. ["Tahrirolvasyleh", fourth edition, Qom, Iran, 1990] "

"A man can have sex with animals such as sheep, cows, camels and so on. However, he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village, but selling the meat to a neighbouring village is reasonable. ["Tahrirolvasyleh"] "

" If one commits the act of sodomy with a cow, a ewe, or a camel, their urine and their excrement become impure and even their milk may no longer be consumed. The animal must then be killed as quickly as possible and burned. "

"Wine and all intoxicating beverages are impure, but opium and hashish are not. "

"During sexual intercourse, if the penis enters a woman's vagina or a man's anus, fully or only as far as the circumcision ring, both partners become impure, even if they have not reached puberty; they must consequently perform ablutions. "

"A woman who has contracted a continuing marriage does not have the right to go out of the house without her husband's permission; she must remain at his disposal for the fulfilment of any one of his desires, and may not refuse herself to him except for a religiously valid reason. If she is totally submissive to him, the husband must provide her with her food, clothing, and lodging, whether or not he has the means to do so. A woman who refuses herself to her husband is guilty, and may not demand from him food, clothing, lodging, or any later sexual relations; however, she retains the right to be paid damages if she is repudiated."

"If a father (or paternal grandfather) marries off his daughter (or granddaughter) in her absence without knowing for a certainty that she is alive, the marriage becomes null and void as soon as it is established that she was dead at the time of the marriage. "

"If a man commits adultery with an unmarried woman, and subsequently marries her, the child born of that marriage will be a bastard unless the parents can be sure it was conceived after they were married. A child born of an adulterous father is legitimate. "

This is what mullah's approve:
"It is quite common in Iran for older men to marry children, as long as they pay the appropriate bride-price to the girl's family. This basically means that a father can sell his daughter to whomever he wants, whilst the mad mullahs see this as a means of maintaining purity. We prefer to call this child prostitution and rape, especially given that Iran's clerics approve of the 'tradition' of 'temporary marriage' (Mut'a), which can last less than 24 hours and may be repeated as many times as desired. This form of exploitation is widespread and legitimises sex with young children. The man may even visit his temporary wife every weekend at her father’s house, for about $10 per visit. How's pimping? "

 

[King Alexander]

According to Constitution-experts in western world, "any faith-based system would have to conform to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms".

Nigeria:
"Nigeria: Human Rights Abuses Under Shariah Law
The imposition of Islamic laws in norther Nigeria has led to widespread abuses of basic human rights. Islamic law has been imposed for the sake of partisan politics and the people who suffer have no real recourse for justice."

Taken from here: http://www.equalityiniraq.com/iwrc.htm
Iraqi Women's Rights Coalition
" - Equal rights between women and men in all spheres of social, family life, inheritance, marriage, and divorce.

- The total abolition of killings based on ‘honour’. Honour killings must be recognised as a crime, and the perpetrators must be brought to justice and sentenced to a prison term according to the law.

- The criminalisation of all forms of rape, sexual harassment, physical and psychological torture, domestic violence and beheading women under any excuses.

- The right to have abortion for up to12 weeks of pregnancy for women, and there should be no restriction by the state or her family.

- The abolition of marriages for girls under the age of sixteen, and the abolition of polygamous marriages and the practice of temporary marriage (SIGHA), and also the right to total freedom of choice regarding sexual partners and spouses.

- The right to enjoy equal rights in employment and education.

- The right to have individual freedom to live alone, and to travel freely without being accompanied.

- The right to refuse Islamic veiling by the family or the state or any other person, without any penalty.

- The right to join political parties and the right to establish women’s rights organisations, advocacy centres, and refugees. Recognition of women’s rights in participating in every governmental post without any discrimination or obstacles by the state. "
------->>it certainly reminds the hard/difficult battle women in western world gave at the 20th century to have a right to vote, be equal with men in everything, etc...


Taken from this site: http://www.ccmw.com/MuslimFamilyLaw/Islamic%20law%20not%20needed%20in%20BC.html
Islamic law not needed in B.C.
Plant: Islamic women who fear formal recognition of shariah cheer A-G's position
"We are very happy that the attorney-general of B.C. has rejected the idea of shariah because we believe it would undermine women's rights in Canada," said Razia Jaffer, president of the Canadian Council of Muslim Women.
"Women would be coerced into accepting lesser rights than they were granted under Canadian law," Jaffer said, citing unequal treatment under shariah law related to the division of assets or child custody.


Taken from this site: http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110007112
Shariah endangers women's rights, from Iraq to Canada.

BY AYAAN HIRSI ALI
"Ms. Hirsi Ali, a member of the Dutch parliament for the Liberal Party, was born in Somalia. She took refuge in the Netherlands in 1992 to escape an arranged marriage, and has had armed bodyguards after receiving death threats from Muslim extremists. She writes at http://www.ayaanhirsiali.web-log.nl/. "


Taken from here: http://www.islamreview.com/articles/sharia.shtml
SHARIA IN AMERICA
"America can go to jihad against non Muslim countries. It will bring immense wealth in booty and millions of captured women. Canada and Mexico can be easy targets and are conveniently located for easy assault and hauling of booty.

Since slavery will be allowed government can open slave markets to sell it's 20% share of the captured women.

Captured women/slave-girls can provide affordable domestic help for house wives and clean enjoyable sex for their husbands

Enslaved men can be used as farm labor and factory workers at a much lower cost than unionized labor.

Unemployed men from the prohibited non Islamic businesses like TV, Photography, computers, mortgage companies, music industry etc can be hired as religious police for the Ministry of Prevention of Vice and Promotion of Virtues. They can be used to beat up women violating burqa laws, arrest men with undersize beards and whip the non religious types found loitering at prayer times.

Since men will be allowed four wives and unlimited number of slave girls, population boom will result in making the fastest growing religion grow even faster.

All non muslims will live under dhimmi rules and pay heavy Jizya. Budget deficits will be a thing of the past.

Stoning of adulterers, whipping of alcohol drinkers, cutting of hands and feet of thieves and beheadings of apostates can be carried out after Juma prayers on Fridays in the local stadium. Gate charge for this gory and exciting weekly spectacle can generate a lot of revenue.

Unemployed male gynecologists can be hired to carry out circumcisions of new male converts.

Female circumcision can be made mandatory to promote piety and holiness and discourage lewdness among women.

Marriage age for girls can be lowered to 6 years. That will reduce the burden of support of large poorer families and also promote a sunna, the tradition set by the holy prophet (peace be up on him).

Whole Ramadan will be declared as public holidays so that every one can pray and recite the Quran.. Why work in the only month in which all ibadah and Quran recitals are worth 70 times the normal sawab (reward)?

Shia Muslims on temporary out of town business assignments will be able to do a temporary marriage (Muta) and enjoy home comfort outside of home.

Since menstruation is a disease according to Quran all menstruating women will be given time off to rest in bed during their periods.

All toilet seats in the public rest rooms will be reoriented so that one does not defecate facing Mecca.

All public toilets will have buckets of stones instead of toilet tissues for claiming after defecation as a movement to implement sunna in the country.

Separate bins along roadside will be placed to drop bones and dried animal feces for jins to snack on.

Spiraling medical costs can be brought down by the following two prong approaches:

Imams can be placed in the clinics to recite Quranic ayas (verses) and blow on the patients and pray for them . Their fee will be a fraction of what doctor's charge.

All pharmacies will be required to dispense black cumin, honey, Indian incense and camel urine as cure for all diseases as recommended by the holy prophet (pbuh). The cost will be a fraction of today's medicines.

Spiralling prison costs will come down due to the following:

All men serving time for the crime of rape will be freed if four male witnesses had not testified in the trial. Even if four male witnesses had testified, the criminal will be freed under insanity provision , since only mentally insane will rape in front of four witnesses.

All men serving sentences for beating wives will be freed as under new American sharia law wife beating will be allowed.

All thieves will be freed after cutting their hands and feet.

All pedophiles will be freed as sex with children will not be against law any more.

All slayers of unbelievers will be freed if they converted to Islam.

All these result in savings and prosperity and happiness for all. InshaAllah!"


Taken from here: http://www.socialistnigeria.org/women/safiyat.html
DON’T KILL SAFIYAT,
SET HER FREE NOW!



Taken from here: http://hrw.org/editorials/2002/women0822.htm
HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH: The War on Women