You Can't Stop the French!!

[swordspider]

Ok so I know most of the changes were made with balancing in mind, but good gosh the french are stupid over-powered now on the start if you know how to play them. I mean, I know it is their unique civ ability, but it is just stupid now because of the powerful tech trees.

Assuming quick game pace and NO huts:

Scenario 1 (The quick expand insano).

Initial culture is +3. So turn 5 you get a Policy.
I pick +3 in Capital, now I have +6.
In just 5 more turns on turn 10, I have my second Policy.
I pick +1 more culture per city, now I have +7.
In 9 More Turns (Turn 19) I get the next Policy. I pick the Free Settler.
Found city 3 turns later and get an additional +3, so now +10 total.
I b-line a Settler and typically found right about this next interval:
10 turns, next policy, found my 2nd settler, pick Free Culture Building policy.
It is now just turn 29, I have +16 culture, 3 cities, and a 4th policy to pick.
I typically pick the free worker to open up the free great person.
In only 11 more turns you get that great person (so turn 42).

Summary: Assuming no huts, on turn 29 France has picked FOUR policies and any other civ will have only picked ONE, maybe TWO. It takes 15 turns for anyone else to get just 1 policy, so even if they pick +3 in capital, it is still another 8 turns to their second policy (so turn 23 is the earliest). If they pick +1 per city it will still be turn 30 before they get their second Policy!!


Scenario 2 (The Great Library Guaranteed).

Not even Egypt can come close to this path, which is just stupid.
Initial culture is +3. So turn 5 you get a Policy.
I pick +3 in Capital, now I have +6.
In just 5 more turns on turn 10, I have my second Policy.
I pick +1 more culture per city, now I have +7.
In 9 More Turns (Turn 19) I get the next Policy. I pick Free Worker.
Found a second city soon after and get culture up to +10.
In 10 More Turns (Turn 29) I get the Free Great person.
Pick Engineer, turn 30 I complete Great Library!!!

Summary: This is just stupid and is ridiculously over-powered. The worst part is that not only do you get those policies forever (so you're really not giving up anything to get to the GL), you also are going to get the Great Scientist points from the GL AND you get the free tech putting you into the Classical Age be it Iron, or a more intelligent pick would be Civil Service (costs almost twice as much as Iron). Your next policy you just pop out a free settler, and then the policy after that the 4 free culture buildings and around turn 40-50 you 3-4 cities and 16-22 culture.

France is just ridiculously overpowered in the early game. It makes the Chinese before the patch look fair (remember when they had +55% general, +5 gold per paper maker, and Chu's did +2 extra damage?!). The new France is worse than that. No matter how good the players are, you are at a minimum guaranteed either your pick of early wonder, or your pick of where that critical second city goes.

 

[Ermak-]

i can beat that- if i find el dorado.

 

[swordspider]

i can beat that- if i find el dorado.

True dat. But I was taking out all outside factors.

I hate the french personally, but damn they got it good with the patch.

 

[Tabarnak]

I agree the free culture boost accelerate the reach of early policies. But it's only in the beginning. Since other civs can also have a nice chunk of culture later, France UA is lot less strong after 50 turns. Yeah he can get GL very fast and other stuff, but happiness will always be a problem for expansion and getting money.

That said, i always got a France player around in my past MP games and always saw them in top scores because of an early wonder and Liberty policies. but i beat them all so far, and they werent noobs. Except the early wonder(which is not so strong after all) and getting fast worker or settler, i don't see France as the most powerful civ. I prefer Darius or Askia(Meritocracy--->Himeji, coupled with Askai's UB....yummy) for post 60th turn eras for example.

I almost never pick France since the last patch because some civs have gained more power than him.

In fact, i found Landed Elite is far superior than Meritocracy. And to get this path, you need +3 culture and Legalism, which give enough culture to catch France's UA boost.

Buildings has a lot more to offer and everyone can build them. It's not really the civ you picked that makes a game easy or not, it's more how to perform with them with land around. Buildings made civs more balanced from each other.

 

[MasterMishi]

I got longswords turn 65 with france strat and steamfolled all on tiny jungle skirmish rex pump units rush.

 

[KM]

Initial culture is +3. So turn 5 you get a Policy.
I pick +3 in Capital, now I have +6.
In just 5 more turns on turn 10, I have my second Policy.
I pick +1 more culture per city, now I have +7.
In 9 More Turns (Turn 19) I get the next Policy. I pick the Free Settler.
Found city 3 turns later and get an additional +3, so now +10 total.
I b-line a Settler and typically found right about this next interval:
10 turns, next policy, found my 2nd settler, pick Free Culture Building policy.
It is now just turn 29, I have +16 culture, 3 cities, and a 4th policy to pick.
------------------------------
I do the same until here, because after this I think you can do even better.

"I typically pick the free worker to open up the free great person.
In only 11 more turns you get that great person (so turn 42). "

Don t do this. The reason is happines restraint for growth, less growth less money. And money is an issue.

Lets see what we get from these two policies. 1 worker, a bit faster workers and g8 library or stonhedge. Your capital can probably produce a worker in about 6 turns, so this really not such a good policy. g8 library saves u a few turns res. and later a GS, but doesnt help you to much in the long run in my opinion. SH gives u +8 culture, but to get it, the worker plus the G8 person cost you two policies so might not be worth it.

I rather do something else. Edit: After after some trial and error, most profitable seems to be. First landed elite (to be able to focus on production, markets are of huge importance to get up quick, plus you get it at the time you most probably build libraries in all cities for NC, and this makes it go faster. After that plan to cope with the happines restraint I know I will have in the future by choosing piety and then go for thocracy. that takes 3 policies, piety, organized rel. and then theocracy.

I think that should be the most efficient culture order for french.

Researchwise I do animal husbandry, then be-line ironworking. Then calender (happines issues) then literacy, (at this point I iusually have 4 cities, 4-5 swords 1 scout and 2 or 3 workers, depending of the quality of the land. I switch to libraries in all cities for NC in capital, while researching for roads, masonry if ther is marble, and then straight o currency. Reason for that is that markets are really really good now. After that it s straight for the longswords. However this will give you longswords quite late in favour for a really good economy. Hopefully it wont matter unless the oponents got very good lands, otherwise he will not be able to upgrade most of his swords anyway until you get to longswords and you will be fine. Its a bit risky thought.

One alternetive that is a bit less risky and has some advantages and disadvantages. After the basic tech not going for markets but first for longswords. the + is you get workshop early in the capital, Put it to work at this point and you will have a GE at the time for chivalry. The downside is that you get to a point where your cities will have nothing good to produce apart from army, and at this point your kingdom wont be able to suport, and might not have use for more than you allready have.