Lincoln3457
A Walrus
Modern Armor and Marines / Navy Seals they dominate in the modern world. I usualy discover them around 1880 AD. Modern Armor Around 1935 AD 
Your favorite unit?
- Thread starter Lincoln3457
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AfterShafter
Deity
Longbows - the do-it-all units of their time.
JonathanStrange
PrinceWithA1000Enemies
Praetorians, absolutely my reason to run amok.
Stoklomolvi
Chieftain
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2008
- Messages
- 59
Modern Armour all the way. Followed by stealth bombers.
Talk about unstoppable
Jabarto
Emperor
I think crossbowmen (which, to answer the OP, are my favorite unit) are better general purpose units than longbowmen; the anti infantry bonus applies in many situations, while city defense only applies to defense, and has limitations even then (must be in a city). But I can see why you'd say that, especially if you're in a game with no iron. It's really hard to top longbowmen in reliability.
AfterShafter
Deity
1) Crossbows require iron, making them impossible in some games - longbows are always there. 2) crossbows cost more. 3) crossbows have a bonus against melee units - longbows have a bonus against *everything* - just in a certain situation.
Crossbows are great units, but they're more situational than longbows. The cheaper longbows ,which can have their strengths (hills/cities) leveraged against any units from macemen to knights, require no resources - whereas crossbows only excel against melee and actually blow goats against anything but. I vastly prefer longbows as a general purpose units for the reasons listed above.
Not to say crossbows aren't *great* units, but... They are more targeted use units (cost more, require iron, bonuses solely VS melee), whereas longbows work VS anything (cost less, no resources, bonuses work VS anything based on terrain).
Crossbows are great units, but they're more situational than longbows. The cheaper longbows ,which can have their strengths (hills/cities) leveraged against any units from macemen to knights, require no resources - whereas crossbows only excel against melee and actually blow goats against anything but. I vastly prefer longbows as a general purpose units for the reasons listed above.
Not to say crossbows aren't *great* units, but... They are more targeted use units (cost more, require iron, bonuses solely VS melee), whereas longbows work VS anything (cost less, no resources, bonuses work VS anything based on terrain).
Jabarto
Emperor
You're correct, but it's important to remember that infantry will make up the bulk of most armies, especially in city attacks, so being useful against infantry is more broadly applicable than it looks on paper. The only thing that can reliably (as in, 75% chance or higher) defeat a crossbowman is a knight, which would trounce anything else anyway.
That said, I didn't really stop to consider that the city defense applies to *all* units. You've got a good point there. I would still argue that crossbowmen are a little stronger overall (hence the increased cost), but I concede that longbowmen are more versatile.
Regardless, I think we can agree that archery units are great fun. If there were a civ with a Longbow unique unit, I'd probably play it constantly for no other reason.
AfterShafter
Deity
Well, as I said, crossbows are a *great* units, and I entirely agree that archery units are great fun (and incredibly underrated by this community in my eyes!). I'd happily make do with crossbows if the situation came where I had them and not feudalism, and leave-off on the longbows until later.
One thing to keep in mind about longbows is that their bonus isn't only city based - it's 25% hill based. So, they can get a bit of a stack effect against units in the field too - a forested hill is all you need to make a stack they're in impervious in your timeframe, and even just a regular hill does very well. That gives them a very significant portion of an average landscape they can leverage into significant bonuses against any units. I've waged my fair of effective assaults with no resources and nothing but lonbows and cats/trebs...
Concerning crossbows, the things about them that give me the nod towards lonbows are the resource and horse archers/knights. Once knights come, crossbows are pretty much hooped - longbows are still viable with forested hills on the field, and inside of cities on D - or even on regular hills if you're comparing hammers rather than 1v1 win ratios. Crossbows are at best even VS horse archers, let alone knights. But then again, if you have crossbows, you can get pikes/spears, so that changes the equation - but that's an if...
I find longbows rock any situation. Crossbows - well, you need iron, and then you need to hope the opponent isn't one of those guys that loves to spam horse units (the Mongols, Justinian, or Saladin for instance). I just love my do-everything longbows
One thing to keep in mind about longbows is that their bonus isn't only city based - it's 25% hill based. So, they can get a bit of a stack effect against units in the field too - a forested hill is all you need to make a stack they're in impervious in your timeframe, and even just a regular hill does very well. That gives them a very significant portion of an average landscape they can leverage into significant bonuses against any units. I've waged my fair of effective assaults with no resources and nothing but lonbows and cats/trebs...
Concerning crossbows, the things about them that give me the nod towards lonbows are the resource and horse archers/knights. Once knights come, crossbows are pretty much hooped - longbows are still viable with forested hills on the field, and inside of cities on D - or even on regular hills if you're comparing hammers rather than 1v1 win ratios. Crossbows are at best even VS horse archers, let alone knights. But then again, if you have crossbows, you can get pikes/spears, so that changes the equation - but that's an if...
I find longbows rock any situation. Crossbows - well, you need iron, and then you need to hope the opponent isn't one of those guys that loves to spam horse units (the Mongols, Justinian, or Saladin for instance). I just love my do-everything longbows
Phoenician
Tiberium Warrior
not including unique units, my favorite unit would be the chariot and probably marines.
my favorite UU are war chariots, janissaries, and redcoats.
my favorite UU are war chariots, janissaries, and redcoats.
Jabarto
Emperor
Well, as I said, crossbows are a *great* units, and I entirely agree that archery units are great fun (and incredibly underrated by this community in my eyes!). I'd happily make do with crossbows if the situation came where I had them and not feudalism, and leave-off on the longbows until later.
One thing to keep in mind about longbows is that their bonus isn't only city based - it's 25% hill based. So, they can get a bit of a stack effect against units in the field too - a forested hill is all you need to make a stack they're in impervious in your timeframe, and even just a regular hill does very well. That gives them a very significant portion of an average landscape they can leverage into significant bonuses against any units. I've waged my fair of effective assaults with no resources and nothing but lonbows and cats/trebs...
Concerning crossbows, the things about them that give me the nod towards lonbows are the resource and horse archers/knights. Once knights come, crossbows are pretty much hooped - longbows are still viable with forested hills on the field, and inside of cities on D - or even on regular hills if you're comparing hammers rather than 1v1 win ratios. Crossbows are at best even VS horse archers, let alone knights. But then again, if you have crossbows, you can get pikes/spears, so that changes the equation - but that's an if...
I find longbows rock any situation. Crossbows - well, you need iron, and then you need to hope the opponent isn't one of those guys that loves to spam horse units (the Mongols, Justinian, or Saladin for instance). I just love my do-everything longbows
You know, I totally forgot about the hills bonus.
I'm so used to sticking them in cities that I forgot they got bonuses outside of them.And you're right about the resourceless wars. For the longest time, Wang Kon was my favorite leader because of the protective archers and souped-up catapults. Talk about long term protection, even without resources.
To contribute to the topic of the thread, I'd also like to nominate machine guns. I can understand why people wouldn't like them, but for a player like me who avoids war like the plague, they're a godsend. Just stick a drill promotion or two on them and they can hold off entire armies. I never have to worry about attacks in the industrial age because of them.
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,995
Cannon. They're so obnoxious. They torch all medieval units like nothing (can serve as stack defense outright until the AI grabs cuirassers), have access to CR II w/o upgrades unlike the rest of the renaissance gunpowder era troops, bombard quickly, and are reasonably odds-on even vs rifles after the first 1-2. They are easily my favorite renaissance troop these days (surpassing even the cuirasser) because their window is so huge ---> from when you get them until infantry. They're even on a favorable path for intercontinental invasions.
Secure iron.
Edit: Honorable mention goes to INFANTRY
Q: What counters infantry in the field before industrialism?
A: Damn!
Yeah. Absolutely nothing. Machine guns get a boost vs infantry, but can't actually attack. What's left? SAMs? No. Marines? Paratroopers? No. Anything pre-robotics or MA except tanks? No!
Even funnier is that arty, while it can't inflict collateral on MG's, tends to beat them outright due to CR once the MGs are the defenders. In other words, infantry are an extremely potent unit with a long lifespan and have no UU based on them for good reason (similar to the cannon).
Secure iron.
Edit: Honorable mention goes to INFANTRY
Q: What counters infantry in the field before industrialism?
A: Damn!
Yeah. Absolutely nothing. Machine guns get a boost vs infantry, but can't actually attack. What's left? SAMs? No. Marines? Paratroopers? No. Anything pre-robotics or MA except tanks? No!
Even funnier is that arty, while it can't inflict collateral on MG's, tends to beat them outright due to CR once the MGs are the defenders. In other words, infantry are an extremely potent unit with a long lifespan and have no UU based on them for good reason (similar to the cannon).
Oromo Warriors.
With Oromos, you can get many units up to four promotions with just 5XP via upgrades. This includes Riflemen, Infantry, Mech Infantry, Anti-Tanks, SAM Infantry, Mobile SAMs, and of course the Oromo itself. That means Drill IV at 5XP
with 4-8 first strikes.
Oromo's also get 1 free first strike and are immune to first strikes (lost when upgraded). This makes them extremely potent as attack units to follow siege units on city attacks. Even after you have more advanced units, it's worth keeping oromo's around for these two benefits.
For non-UU, I'd go with longbowman. As said earlier, they are very versatile and fairly cheap. If beelined, they can be used with catapults to wage a no-metal war (handy if you have neither iron nor copper). I'd normally only use them in numbers if Protective though, as Pro boosts them quite a bit (opening up the drill path).
With Oromos, you can get many units up to four promotions with just 5XP via upgrades. This includes Riflemen, Infantry, Mech Infantry, Anti-Tanks, SAM Infantry, Mobile SAMs, and of course the Oromo itself. That means Drill IV at 5XP
with 4-8 first strikes.Oromo's also get 1 free first strike and are immune to first strikes (lost when upgraded). This makes them extremely potent as attack units to follow siege units on city attacks. Even after you have more advanced units, it's worth keeping oromo's around for these two benefits.
For non-UU, I'd go with longbowman. As said earlier, they are very versatile and fairly cheap. If beelined, they can be used with catapults to wage a no-metal war (handy if you have neither iron nor copper). I'd normally only use them in numbers if Protective though, as Pro boosts them quite a bit (opening up the drill path).
Krill
Deity
The Worker. 'Nuff said...
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
War Elephants are my favourite non-UU.
Stoney the I
Prince
1. Cannon. so much fun to have if the AI is not way ahead. they will pound on everything and eveybody untill infantry.
2. Preatorian. Early war, medevil war, upgrade, war some more.
3. Paratrooper. THE best unit to overwhelm backwards civs quikly before even the WW kicks in. maybe not the best unit, but so much fun to use!
4. Bombers. Its like siege on remote control. great for lazy people, like myself.
2. Preatorian. Early war, medevil war, upgrade, war some more.
3. Paratrooper. THE best unit to overwhelm backwards civs quikly before even the WW kicks in. maybe not the best unit, but so much fun to use!
4. Bombers. Its like siege on remote control. great for lazy people, like myself.
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