Your Thoughts On Wonders?

[Lord Chambers]

I think Stonehenge is a must build. That's the wonder I shoot for early in the game, it centers the map which is extremely valuable.

Why is that extremely valuable?

 

[cleverhandle]

The Space Elevator: I'm sorry, I don't quite get it. If I'm understanding correctly, it gives a +50% bonus to space part construction. Basically, this means instead of spending 8400 production for all of the space parts (assuming no discounts for aluminum and the like), you only have to pay approximately 5600. That's a savings of 2800 production. The Wonder itself costs 2000, so you're saving 800 production overall. And that's assuming that you haven't built any parts yet, which seems unlikely.

I think the idea is that you would build the Elevator when you have "spare" cities and a tight Space Race so that the very last pieces, which you're waiting on the tech for, will complete before your rivals. But I agree that it's not as useful a Wonder as it would appear to be on paper.

 

[VilleDick]

Why is that extremely valuable?

I like it because it helps me figure out where I am, and I can get a feel for where I am in relation to other civs both in size and location. I'm usually building that before I have any assemblance of a military so I can send my units in the right direction to contact other civs.

Plus to save resources on the comp I don't play in full screen mode so I have to click on the mini-map to move around easier. That first map is ugly.

 

[Grand Fromage]

For my hammers, the Statue of Liberty and the Pentagon are the wonders I go all-out to get. You can't beat free specialists and XP. The Great Library and the Oracle are also up there, and if you're on the coast, the Colossus and Great Lighthouse are no-brainers.

 

[TheDarkPhantom]

Interesting, thanks for everyone's thoughts. If people have more ideas, feel free to keep posting, I am checking back every so often.

 

[Percinho]

I'm a big fan of a couple of wonders: The Statue of Liberty and The Eiffel Tower.

Free specialists and a huge culture boost repectively have often proved invaluable to me in the later game.

 

[fugazi]

building the lighthouse/colossus when one is a financial/industrious (chinaaaa =P) civ and one has the choice of building alot of coastal towns, is awesome! You simply rake in the cash like it's nobody's business and the inland towns you can use for either production or resource-gathering, the coastal cities will be booming and making lots of money.

Problem really is that choprushing things in coastal cities sucks alot unless they got 2+ hills or access to watermills on riverbanks.

I usually make all the wonders I can, simply because of the +GP, just pay attention to when one is being born and if you want an engineer - turn alot of citizens into engineers to raise the chances of the GP becoming just one of those.

But on deity games that might be different

 

[zafyro]

As for representation, unless you're playing on the very difficult settings, you won't need the happy points for some time, and you can't really afford too many specialists in your cities to take advantage of the research bonus. That's why I didn't include the Pyramids as an important wonder to have--I think they're a nice bonus, but generally speaking you can get by just fine without them (and I typically do).[/QUOTE]

---------> Except you´re on flood plains, and are able to manage your health and star to have HUGE cities. Original Egiptians did so . Also the extra bonus to research is quite big and you can have it long before anyone.
I´d raise it to TOP 5 for philosofical civilizations who will have more GP based games.

 

[tempuraki]

I want to say a few good things about the Kremlin. On paper, half-off rushing cost might not sound like much, but it is actually quite powerful in practice.

It should also work for slavery civic, theoretically, something that requires 4 pops now requires 2 pops, although I have never tried it.

The effective period is not the longest, but it pretty much lasts until the end of the game since fiber optics (i think that's the tech that obsoletes it) is near the end of the tree.

One of the best uses of the Kremlin is to rush wonders. Some of the wonders available in the effective duration are: Pentagon, Three Gorges Dam, Eiffel Tower, Hollywood, Broadway, Rock'n'Roll, United Nations, Space Elevator... A lot of them are popular on this thread. With the help of a healthy economy, universal suffrage, and the Kremlin (and being industrious) most of these wonders can be bought by zero out the tech slider for 1-2 turns (no more than 2000 gold needed for each, and setting the slider to zero gives me at least 1500 a turn. except for the Three Gorges Dam, that one is a bit more expensive, i think i spent 3000 gold to rush one that is 1/3 completed.)

Another use is to quickly build up a modern army. If you have a lot of unpromoted units it would be cheaper to rush a brand new unit than to upgrade the old ones.

And of course it makes rushing general buildings easier. Rushing buildings to culturally protect my oversea expansions became a lot easier with the Kremlin.

Overall I think the Kremlin won't affect the game as much as some other wonders, but if you are a wondermonger, or maybe you find yourself with a lot of cash and behind on production, then the Kremlin can really make a difference.

 

[ÆnigmÆffect]

Stonehenge is a big one for me, in games where I don't random the creative trait. For people doing a quick chop settler expansion early game, the Stonehenge is even more important, imo, since you can use it to quickly block off neighbors from grabbing good resources.

I'm also a fan of Statue of Liberty: 1 free specialist in all cities is a big bonus throughout the rest of the game: extra GPP, extra whatever you want.

I've read that the Hanging Gardens can be a good one, since at that point, your cities are likely not that big, and a +1 pop everywhere will likely generate a lot of gold overall.

But Stonehenge and Statue of Liberty are my big priorities (with Stonehenge being situational: non-creative only).

 

[Zhahz]

So I would say the key criterion is whether you receive its benefit if capture from other civ.

Not necessarily because not everyone is a full time conqueror. I tend to wage a lot of war but sometimes I go for more peaceful victories.

Few wonders are so overpowered that they're "must haves," which I think is good. I'm usually happy to build any wonder since the great person point generation alone is helpful - if the wonder has a good effect it's a bonus!

Some of my favorites:

Pentagon (extra xp for new units - but expensive to build - gives the potential to produce land units with 3 promotions upon creation (with vassalage and theocracy running))

Three Gorges Damn (clean power for your continent - but expensive to build - considering the alternatives - unhealthy coal, dangerous nuclear, or situational hydro this can be huge - it's nice to have an engineer and a pile of cash to rush)

Stonehenge (usually easy to build, helps seal up early borders)

The Oracle (always nice to get a free and expensive tech early)

The Pyramids (sweet ability to get so early that never goes obsolete)

 

[Aldin]

Well, just gonna join the choir of voices for Stonehenge in the absence of the Creative trait. Can't think of a better way to spend a couple of forest tiles.

~Aldin

 

[cleverhandle]

After seeing it here several times, I have to ask - why in holy heck would you build Three Gorges??? It just doesn't hold a candle to the Hoover Dam of Civ2/3. Coal plants in Civ4 are relatively cheap (usually a 4-6 turn build at most once I have the Factory), the Dam is expensive, you generally have fewer cities in IV than in II/III, Plastics is late in the game compared to Electronics, and health is rarely a problem in my experience (at Prince). I've yet to build the Dam and have never had regrets about missing it. It's just such a nerf from the Hoover Dam of the old days.

 

[DrWu]

Stonehenge is great - it basically gives you the creative trait for free when you most need it, the early game. It's well worth a couple of chops for Stonehenge and then having another trait rather than creative - ind\fin for example.

 

[Cider_]

Stonehenge also gives you a great prophet early so you can build your religious building.
If you found a religion early in the game This can help you out tremendously.

 

[jpm13]

I mostly ignore wonders until I get universal suffrage and then keep vast stores of cash for the sole purpose of rushing wonders. There are a few wonders I'll always try to get because of my playing style, but none of them are really must haves:

Kremlin: I frequently play financial civs, and I love to spam cottages everywhere, so I always have a lot of gold sitting around. It goes obsolete fast, but you can cram in a lot of production in that time period. I either use it to rush wonders or a fancy new army before fiber optics hits.

Space Elevator: While someone noted earlier that this only saves you 800 hammers if you build it, the real advantage is that you can rush this one unlike the parts themselves and cut 1/3rd off the build time for all your SS parts which is often the difference between victory and defeat.

Hollywood/Broadway/Rock & Roll: The happiness is sweet if you have the Eiffel Tower or broadcast towers built, and the hit movies/musicals/singles are good bargaining chips if you're missing a resource or two.

UN: I know, a lot of folks aren't fond of this one, but I'd rather have it in my hands than someone else's, so it can't hurt me. Plus if you conquer enough cities you can get a guaranteed diplo win.

 

[KAuss]

You can tell where you are on the world map by terrain type... Tundra near the poles and forrest in the middle...

If you're in a jungle to start, you know you're at the equator, if you're near tundra, then it's obvious that you're at either end...

Only time it's different is an island map, or any other non world type maps...

As for wonders, I don't think I can do without Statue of Liberty... If there is one that is a must have, it's this one... It's generally one free pop for all cities...

Next would be Pentagon... This actually acts like a world wonder that can be blended with two warmonger fav national wonders...

Stonehenge is also a definate must in more than half the game's given starting situations... Oblisk in every city just cost way too much...

Hanging Gardens will help tremendously for flood plain heavy civs...

Eiffle tower is so attractive, but if one is to shoot for a religion win, you'll most likely be at 100% culture before this thing comes in to play... If not, then you're cutting it real close...

Spiral Minaret is truely a great wonder... As happiness becomes a problem, one can build temples instead of theater to take care of the situation... With this thing and financial trait, you're looking at some major buckage... I was able to skip Drama and Music for more important things on the tech tree with the use of temples... This wonder just makes it more lucrative...

UN, I aim most of my games to build this thing to win diplo... Besides that, it's pretty useless... This thing does nothing if you're not a diplo leader in any sort tho, so I wouldn't say it's good by any means...

Colossus... As I play with Qin a lot, this thing makes me smile each time I get it... Research is throgh the roof early to mid game with this bad boy... Obviously provided you have a few costal cities...

 

[Jazz_Newton]

All of the national wonders are worth building at one point or another (with the possible exception of The Globe Theater)

I've always found the globe theatre to be an unbelievably useful wonder. The city that I build it in rockets to 15 or 16 pop while the rest of my cities stay at 8 or 9 max.

 

[Heroes]

As for representation, unless you're playing on the very difficult settings, you won't need the happy points for some time, and you can't really afford too many specialists in your cities to take advantage of the research bonus. That's why I didn't include the Pyramids as an important wonder to have--I think they're a nice bonus, but generally speaking you can get by just fine without them (and I typically do).

---------> Except you´re on flood plains, and are able to manage your health and star to have HUGE cities. Original Egiptians did so . Also the extra bonus to research is quite big and you can have it long before anyone.
I´d raise it to TOP 5 for philosofical civilizations who will have more GP based games.[/QUOTE]

Why you can't afford too many specialists? Just build more farms. Suppose there are 3 grassland tiles, you can put 3 cottages, or build 2 farms and hire a scientist. With representation, you could see that farm + specialist is probably better.

 

[Heroes]

Not necessarily because not everyone is a full time conqueror. I tend to wage a lot of war but sometimes I go for more peaceful victories.

Few wonders are so overpowered that they're "must haves," which I think is good. I'm usually happy to build any wonder since the great person point generation alone is helpful - if the wonder has a good effect it's a bonus!

Some of my favorites:

Pentagon (extra xp for new units - but expensive to build - gives the potential to produce land units with 3 promotions upon creation (with vassalage and theocracy running))

Three Gorges Damn (clean power for your continent - but expensive to build - considering the alternatives - unhealthy coal, dangerous nuclear, or situational hydro this can be huge - it's nice to have an engineer and a pile of cash to rush)

Stonehenge (usually easy to build, helps seal up early borders)

The Oracle (always nice to get a free and expensive tech early)

The Pyramids (sweet ability to get so early that never goes obsolete)

Hehe, I just found that a lot of civ 3 experience is obsolete, maybe including this one. I am building all the available wonders at immortal level, and I don't want to train more units, because my net income is negative with 0% science! Some cities are actually building "research"! This weird situation is unimaginable in civ 3, but very realistic in civ 4, -- when you quickly conquer a lot of cities.