Yup. Korea is Just as OP as it Was in the Past

[Pietato]

They are not just as good on defense, because properly defending often involves moving and firing on the same turn. The tech leaders do not need a weaker version of unit that comes earlier, and it serves to make them weaker.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Well, nobody actually uses field cannons so the earlier timing is quite useful. If you did get to Ballistics, you're almost at artillery and can use Cuirs.

But didn't OP say that the game's over in the ancient era anyways?

 

[MarigoldRan]

In SP it is.

 

[Leathaface]

Korea may be great in a players hands but the AI is still really bad using Korea. In my past 2 Deity games i've won a Science victory in both, meanwhile Korea wasn't even able to launch the Mars Colony Project in both games. (3rd step out of 5 towards Science victory)

I'm not a very skilled player, I say i'm around average but I just play a lot of Civ. It's disheartening winning on Deity so easily.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Korea may be great in a players hands but the AI is still really bad using Korea. In my past 2 Deity games i've won a Science victory in both, meanwhile Korea wasn't even able to launch the Mars Colony Project in both games. (3rd step out of 5 towards Science victory)

I'm not a very skilled player, I say i'm around average but I just play a lot of Civ. It's disheartening winning on Deity so easily.

This has been my experience: The AI Korea keeps up in Tech for about the first three Eras, but by the Renaissance starts falling behind and by the Modern Era is, like the other AI Civs, hopeless. One reason the late game is so disheartening is that the AI by the late game is wallowing in the Human player's wake and barely able to compete at all, especially in Science or Domination.
Ironically, right after they get Hwacha the AI-led Korean Civ (in my experience, anyway) tends to start falling behind so that Hwachas end up matched against Artillery, Tanks and modern Infantry: no contest.

 

[Kwami]

I still ain't convinced that Incas are all that great. They are solid, but not great. On a side note, Korean Seowons shouldn't really benefit from Natural History and the adjacency half of Rationalism - after all, they have a stable bonus which doesn't depend on any adjacency (unless you are counting the negative adjacency ofc)

That would make the Seowon a net loss for Korea rather than a bonus.

 

[Weraptor]

Is that so wrong, considering Korea is so powerful?

 

[Pietato]

Is that so wrong, considering Korea is so powerful?

Yes. You nerf them properly, not completely kill them.

 

[The googles do nothing]

Yes. You nerf them properly, not completely kill them.

Yes. UD and UB should be priced in a way that forces the player to think about if they should build them. Or be mutually exclusive with the other VC districts

 

[Archon_Wing]

I think Korea should be changed by

Reduce Seowon Adjacency to 2
+1 Adjacency for every 2 adjacent mines
Remove Science from adjacent mines

It will still be strong but not nearly as mindless or a gimme. Alternatively, simply remove the science from mines; as this is too much considering their constant bonuses to science.

 

[S1AL]

But... but... free roads & terrace farms

Free roads are barely relevant to the discussion of Rome. In R&F, when you could stack Oligarchy and Oligarchic Legacy, you would have +8 Legions (due to free Monuments) chopping other Legions and then going up against Swordsmen before the opponent could REACH OLIGARCHY.

At least that's what happened in Multiplayer.

In GS Legions cost way too much Iron to be particularly relevant at all and the maps prevent aggression in most cases.

Hwachas suck. The super-science civ would be better off with Field Cannons, which they would get earlier than everyone.

As for fighting the Incas...just use their tunnels against them.

You've clearly never played against Hwachas with a general.

 

[MarigoldRan]

Then they're like the Incan UU except with 2 range.

 

[Pietato]

/rollseyes

 

[Nefelia]

Lol @ using the Inca's tunnels against them. Their strength is not in their fortified mountain position, but in the fact that they get a running start by having 2-3 5f/2p tiles to work with. Faster population growth = greater production as you can work more tiles = faster unit production and earlier settlers.

I just recently started my first game as the Inca, as I decided to take a break from wonder-hoarding with China to try another play style. The joke was on me though, as the huge amount of settled cities early in the game allowed me to indulge in my wonder addiction with more success than I had with China.

The Seowon is a good advantage. But having two Inca cities (and therefore two campuses) for every Korean city easily surpasses that advantage.