bobbabooey
Chieftain
zerksees said:
I totally agree medieval infantry should be built into the army. They will not move as quick as the ancient cavalry but it will definitely be a great force.
-
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zerksees emperor training mission
- Thread starter zerksees
- Start date
I totally agree medieval infantry should be built into the army. They will not move as quick as the ancient cavalry but it will definitely be a great force.
Smart
King
lurker's comment: You can wait for Knights. Does somebody have Chivalry to trade?
zerksees
in remission
Several have chivalry. Problem is there are no extra horses to trade on our continent. The next army might be knights.Smart said:
Tominator2
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2004
- Messages
- 21
highlights:
- fighting was extremely heavy
- we have a medinf army under Ramses
- haven't lost yet
concerns:
- [gripe_mode]we were very badly tactically prepared for this war. the mountainous area south of four is primo defensive terrain. we should have had cavalry and pikemen on each peak in a line from st. r to abydos. let the ai beat its head against that. as it was i spent most of my time killing archers and calvary off mountains. if he had thought to bring another spearman or two it would have been goodbye four. his lone spearman about half-killed our army.[/gripe_mode]
- we have a lot of workers
- we could use some pikemen to defend against raids on our advancing troops
what the hell i was thinking (aka plans):
- a couple quick moves into Grand River and Cat turned into a knife fight for the heights around Four
- the need for units delayed some other builds (e.g. markets)
- we have a firm wall on the mountains
- Ramses is in Four healing
the next few turns:
- we might have enough to take GR
- if we do it without major losses, we'll probably have enough to take Cat
- after that, who can say?
summary:
340
- lost warrior to Iro archer
- Five: medinf -> medinf
- Cheese: settler -> harbor
- incans complete sun tzu
- greeks finish knights templar
- settler: cheese -> thebes
- medinf: Five -> mountain by Abydos
- cav: mtn west of busiris
- medinf: into Four to heal
- St Regis: starving
- workers north of Four move north
- elite swordsman beats archer out east
- medinf beats spearman by Grand River
350
- Ramses(leader) to Four
- Busiris area almost clean
- medinf fights off horse - now elite
- Four: medinf -> medinf
- Iro building Sistine chapel (they sense a nearness to the afterlife)
360
- medinf beats horse north of Grand River
- we have way more workers than work
- gathering a bunch of guys at Bus for run at Cat
- medinf and anccav lost on Iro turn
- Six: medinf -> medinf
- Deer: medinf -> medinf
- Iro trying to split Aby and Four
370
- both medinf -> Four (for Ramses)
- Thebes: marketplace -> medinf
- Two: medinf -> medinf
- Seven: medinf -> medinf
- Iro really mean it
380
- pulled some swordsmen out of Bus to clean out mountains south of Four
- lost horse in Iro territory and medinf near Aby
- army in Four holds off single archer
- Aby: medinf -> medinf
- Alps: temple -> pikeman
390
- Bong: anccav -> Abydos
- more hill-cleaning
- waiting to get enough force south
- pikeman into Four
- lost a swordsman and a medinf to counterattacks
400
- Four pretty much surrounded
- medinf almost there
- lost archer, beat horse
- Three: medinf -> medinf
- Four: medinf -> medinf
- where is he getting all these guys?
410
- Ramses has full army
- more hill-cleaning (horse and two archers)
- china offers alliance vs inca (another war) and rop - turn them down
- Tyn: spearman -> pikeman
420
- lost medinf, beat spear and 2 longbow in hills
- settlers head south
- Thebes: medinf -> medinf
- fighting was extremely heavy
- we have a medinf army under Ramses
- haven't lost yet
concerns:
- [gripe_mode]we were very badly tactically prepared for this war. the mountainous area south of four is primo defensive terrain. we should have had cavalry and pikemen on each peak in a line from st. r to abydos. let the ai beat its head against that. as it was i spent most of my time killing archers and calvary off mountains. if he had thought to bring another spearman or two it would have been goodbye four. his lone spearman about half-killed our army.[/gripe_mode]
- we have a lot of workers
- we could use some pikemen to defend against raids on our advancing troops
what the hell i was thinking (aka plans):
- a couple quick moves into Grand River and Cat turned into a knife fight for the heights around Four
- the need for units delayed some other builds (e.g. markets)
- we have a firm wall on the mountains
- Ramses is in Four healing
the next few turns:
- we might have enough to take GR
- if we do it without major losses, we'll probably have enough to take Cat
- after that, who can say?
summary:
340
- lost warrior to Iro archer
- Five: medinf -> medinf
- Cheese: settler -> harbor
- incans complete sun tzu
- greeks finish knights templar
- settler: cheese -> thebes
- medinf: Five -> mountain by Abydos
- cav: mtn west of busiris
- medinf: into Four to heal
- St Regis: starving
- workers north of Four move north
- elite swordsman beats archer out east
- medinf beats spearman by Grand River
350
- Ramses(leader) to Four
- Busiris area almost clean
- medinf fights off horse - now elite
- Four: medinf -> medinf
- Iro building Sistine chapel (they sense a nearness to the afterlife)
360
- medinf beats horse north of Grand River
- we have way more workers than work
- gathering a bunch of guys at Bus for run at Cat
- medinf and anccav lost on Iro turn
- Six: medinf -> medinf
- Deer: medinf -> medinf
- Iro trying to split Aby and Four
370
- both medinf -> Four (for Ramses)
- Thebes: marketplace -> medinf
- Two: medinf -> medinf
- Seven: medinf -> medinf
- Iro really mean it
380
- pulled some swordsmen out of Bus to clean out mountains south of Four
- lost horse in Iro territory and medinf near Aby
- army in Four holds off single archer
- Aby: medinf -> medinf
- Alps: temple -> pikeman
390
- Bong: anccav -> Abydos
- more hill-cleaning
- waiting to get enough force south
- pikeman into Four
- lost a swordsman and a medinf to counterattacks
400
- Four pretty much surrounded
- medinf almost there
- lost archer, beat horse
- Three: medinf -> medinf
- Four: medinf -> medinf
- where is he getting all these guys?
410
- Ramses has full army
- more hill-cleaning (horse and two archers)
- china offers alliance vs inca (another war) and rop - turn them down
- Tyn: spearman -> pikeman
420
- lost medinf, beat spear and 2 longbow in hills
- settlers head south
- Thebes: medinf -> medinf
Attachments
zerksees
in remission
Good job holding the Fourt (pun intended).
The reason we appear tactically unprepared is because I neglected to explain the tactics. I would let them attack Four. That is why it was built. It is on a hill and has walls and barracks. Put a pike or two in there with a few more support spears and archers underneath and let them attack it. Check the combat calculator. A veteran mounted warrior can only beat a fortified walled town on a hill veteran spearman 29% of the time, and if the spear survives it will be 100% healed next turn. He has the exact same odds against the spearman on a mountain, except the spear does not have the barracks and his buddies on the mountain. The MW would fare worse against the pikes, and the archers get cremated.
The odds on attacking their units, which of course will be on mountains or hills, are not in our favor. So let them come on down.
The reason we appear tactically unprepared is because I neglected to explain the tactics. I would let them attack Four. That is why it was built. It is on a hill and has walls and barracks. Put a pike or two in there with a few more support spears and archers underneath and let them attack it. Check the combat calculator. A veteran mounted warrior can only beat a fortified walled town on a hill veteran spearman 29% of the time, and if the spear survives it will be 100% healed next turn. He has the exact same odds against the spearman on a mountain, except the spear does not have the barracks and his buddies on the mountain. The MW would fare worse against the pikes, and the archers get cremated.
The odds on attacking their units, which of course will be on mountains or hills, are not in our favor. So let them come on down.
zerksees
in remission
Take a look at this pic. What I see is tiles that citizens are on that are notTominator2 said:
fully improved. One is in Thebes and the other is in Five. Two has the same
problem. We are not going to build more workers but we do need more.
Send some of them back near the core and the west to improve tiles we can
get benefit from.
Attachments
zerksees
in remission
Bobbabooey - You are next.
Next 10 turns:
- Get a unit to Gems and Five for MP - each have an entertainer in them (maybe was this done).
- On the warfront:
- I would continue this war for the next 10 turns as we are not yet in danger
- We should take Grand River or Cattargus next - raze and replace one at a time.
- Take the army, 5-6 other attacking units, and the replacement settler and some defenders.
- One tech is not enough for peace
- Consider military alliance with Zulu if offensive gets bogged down
- Keep another ancient cav back near the capital and west to deal with Iroquois boat landings, and anything else you think we need.
- See what you can do with tech trades. We have two irons, a gem luxury and a good bit of gpt to trade. Don’t waste gold on chivalry unless you can get it at the back end of a multi trade deal.
- Put a unit on the iron near Four before you trade it away.
- Get some workers back in the core to improve tiles that our citizens are working
- What to build:
- Cities like Five and Six could probably start on marketplaces soon. Some cities are maxing at size 6, pick one close to the capital and have it build an aqueduct.
- War units, mix and match med. inf and pikes.
- Build temple in St. Regis (maybe this was done)
- Make sure St. Regis has only one Iroquois citizen, then turn governor back on.
- If you need input, stop/save the game at any time and ask for it
Last 10 turn analysis:
Missions accomplished:
- Medieval infantry army established
- Built some settlers and moved them forward
- Marketplaces up and coming
- gold increasing, extra 63 gpt and 801 gold is very good
- As you mentioned – no cities or improvements lost
- No tiles pillaged
Areas of improvement:
1) I can see I blew it in the instructions I gave: - Clear out Iro units in our territory (you can leave the archer on the mountain - he will come down eventually)
I meant just the archers near St. Regis. So besides not telling Tominator2 to let them attack Four, I also said clear out their units. I just wanted those units in the north cleared out. Better tactics include letting new invaders are go for Four, where we should be expecting them. Protect the road into Four with a defender unit
2) Track your battle win-loss record in the log so we can see how well we are doing.
340
- lost warrior to Iro archer [0-1]
- Five: medinf -> medinf
- Cheese: settler -> harbor
- incans complete sun tzu
- greeks finish knights templar
- settler: cheese -> thebes
- medinf: Five -> mountain by Abydos
- cav: mtn west of busiris
- medinf: into Four to heal
- St Regis: starving
- workers north of Four move north
- elite swordsman beats archer out east [1-1]
- medinf beats spearman by Grand River [2-1]
350
- Ramses(leader) to Four
- Busiris area almost clean [units used?]
- medinf fights off horse - now elite [3-1]
- Four: medinf -> medinf
- Iro building Sistine chapel (they sense a nearness to the afterlife)
360
- medinf beats horse north of Grand River [4-1]
- we have way more workers than work
- gathering a bunch of guys at Bus for run at Cat
- medinf and anccav lost on Iro turn [4-3]
- Six: medinf -> medinf
- Deer: medinf -> medinf
- Iro trying to split Aby and Four
370
- both medinf -> Four (for Ramses)
- Thebes: marketplace -> medinf
- Two: medinf -> medinf
- Seven: medinf -> medinf
- Iro really mean it [units lost or defeated?]
380
- pulled some swordsmen out of Bus to clean out mountains south of Four
- lost horse in Iro territory and medinf near Aby [4-5]
- army in Four holds off single archer [5-5]
- Aby: medinf -> medinf
- Alps: temple -> pikeman
390
- Bong: anccav -> Abydos
- more hill-cleaning [units used?]
- waiting to get enough force south
- pikeman into Four
- lost a swordsman and a medinf to counterattacks [5-7]
400
- Four pretty much surrounded
- medinf almost there
- lost archer, beat horse [6-8]
- Three: medinf -> medinf
- Four: medinf -> medinf
- where is he getting all these guys?
410
- Ramses has full army
- more hill-cleaning (horse and two archers) [9-8]
- china offers alliance vs inca (another war) and rop - turn them down
- Tyn: spearman -> pikeman
420
- lost medinf, beat spear and 2 longbow in hills [12-9]
- settlers head south
- Thebes: medinf -> medinf
By my count, in all 14 units were added during the last turn. Our inventory was 67 at the start of the turn and it is 67 at the end. This means we apparently lost five more units than reported, maybe there were also more victories than were reported. I can do much better analysis if I know the counts of units defeated and units lost. In succession games I see them reported in brackets as I have added to a copy of the last turn log above.
I bring this up because in order to get ahead of the AI we need to kill more of their units than we lose our own. At 12 wins vs 9 defeats (hence the [12-9]) I would rate the performance as average. If it was [12-14] this would be bad. We cannot sustain those odds for very long if we want to win.
I am planning additional analysis on this – time permitting.
Next 10 turns:
- Get a unit to Gems and Five for MP - each have an entertainer in them (maybe was this done).
- On the warfront:
- I would continue this war for the next 10 turns as we are not yet in danger
- We should take Grand River or Cattargus next - raze and replace one at a time.
- Take the army, 5-6 other attacking units, and the replacement settler and some defenders.
- One tech is not enough for peace
- Consider military alliance with Zulu if offensive gets bogged down
- Keep another ancient cav back near the capital and west to deal with Iroquois boat landings, and anything else you think we need.
- See what you can do with tech trades. We have two irons, a gem luxury and a good bit of gpt to trade. Don’t waste gold on chivalry unless you can get it at the back end of a multi trade deal.
- Put a unit on the iron near Four before you trade it away.
- Get some workers back in the core to improve tiles that our citizens are working
- What to build:
- Cities like Five and Six could probably start on marketplaces soon. Some cities are maxing at size 6, pick one close to the capital and have it build an aqueduct.
- War units, mix and match med. inf and pikes.
- Build temple in St. Regis (maybe this was done)
- Make sure St. Regis has only one Iroquois citizen, then turn governor back on.
- If you need input, stop/save the game at any time and ask for it
Last 10 turn analysis:
Missions accomplished:
- Medieval infantry army established
- Built some settlers and moved them forward
- Marketplaces up and coming
- gold increasing, extra 63 gpt and 801 gold is very good
- As you mentioned – no cities or improvements lost
- No tiles pillaged
Areas of improvement:
1) I can see I blew it in the instructions I gave: - Clear out Iro units in our territory (you can leave the archer on the mountain - he will come down eventually)
I meant just the archers near St. Regis. So besides not telling Tominator2 to let them attack Four, I also said clear out their units. I just wanted those units in the north cleared out. Better tactics include letting new invaders are go for Four, where we should be expecting them. Protect the road into Four with a defender unit
2) Track your battle win-loss record in the log so we can see how well we are doing.
340
- lost warrior to Iro archer [0-1]
- Five: medinf -> medinf
- Cheese: settler -> harbor
- incans complete sun tzu
- greeks finish knights templar
- settler: cheese -> thebes
- medinf: Five -> mountain by Abydos
- cav: mtn west of busiris
- medinf: into Four to heal
- St Regis: starving
- workers north of Four move north
- elite swordsman beats archer out east [1-1]
- medinf beats spearman by Grand River [2-1]
350
- Ramses(leader) to Four
- Busiris area almost clean [units used?]
- medinf fights off horse - now elite [3-1]
- Four: medinf -> medinf
- Iro building Sistine chapel (they sense a nearness to the afterlife)
360
- medinf beats horse north of Grand River [4-1]
- we have way more workers than work
- gathering a bunch of guys at Bus for run at Cat
- medinf and anccav lost on Iro turn [4-3]
- Six: medinf -> medinf
- Deer: medinf -> medinf
- Iro trying to split Aby and Four
370
- both medinf -> Four (for Ramses)
- Thebes: marketplace -> medinf
- Two: medinf -> medinf
- Seven: medinf -> medinf
- Iro really mean it [units lost or defeated?]
380
- pulled some swordsmen out of Bus to clean out mountains south of Four
- lost horse in Iro territory and medinf near Aby [4-5]
- army in Four holds off single archer [5-5]
- Aby: medinf -> medinf
- Alps: temple -> pikeman
390
- Bong: anccav -> Abydos
- more hill-cleaning [units used?]
- waiting to get enough force south
- pikeman into Four
- lost a swordsman and a medinf to counterattacks [5-7]
400
- Four pretty much surrounded
- medinf almost there
- lost archer, beat horse [6-8]
- Three: medinf -> medinf
- Four: medinf -> medinf
- where is he getting all these guys?
410
- Ramses has full army
- more hill-cleaning (horse and two archers) [9-8]
- china offers alliance vs inca (another war) and rop - turn them down
- Tyn: spearman -> pikeman
420
- lost medinf, beat spear and 2 longbow in hills [12-9]
- settlers head south
- Thebes: medinf -> medinf
By my count, in all 14 units were added during the last turn. Our inventory was 67 at the start of the turn and it is 67 at the end. This means we apparently lost five more units than reported, maybe there were also more victories than were reported. I can do much better analysis if I know the counts of units defeated and units lost. In succession games I see them reported in brackets as I have added to a copy of the last turn log above.
I bring this up because in order to get ahead of the AI we need to kill more of their units than we lose our own. At 12 wins vs 9 defeats (hence the [12-9]) I would rate the performance as average. If it was [12-14] this would be bad. We cannot sustain those odds for very long if we want to win.
I am planning additional analysis on this – time permitting.
Tominator2
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2004
- Messages
- 21
my bad. as it is, i didn't note a battle unless it seemed important. isn't there a graph somewhere that says how many units we've killed, and of what type?
one of them got one - five i think.
as for tactics, i'm not sure letting four take the pounding is the best path. it's not that the units in four can't take it (zerksees is definitely right - they can), it's that the ai has shown a willingness to skirt four and drive west. if it does that it can get into our core and mess us up good. we would be forced to defend/hunt them down there. we'd be better off defending where we get a bonus and have nothing important built.
if this were a defensive war funneling the bad guys toward four is an awesome idea. the place is a volcano short of being mordor - a real fortress.
bobbabooey
Chieftain
Tech slider at 0 to accumulate gold
Ground rules: Don't let a city get under 2 when production worker / settler make sure no entertainers. produce medieval and Pikeman Build a couple more galleys and get a worker over to island with swampland. To get a set of workers over there, send an empty galley out 1 turn and if it survives, load galley 2 (galley in safe waters) with workers. Take galley to galley that survived. Switch workers to 2nd galley and take that galley over to safe waters. Result, no lost workers. Check Embassies to make sure they are set up in all civs. Keep a minimum of 200 gold. Make Wise tech trades.
Plan: Put most of the units sitting on the hill creating the "wall" into Four and Abydos. Keep 2 archers and 5 defensive units in Four. Keep 3 defensive units in Abydos. Attempt to take Cattaraugus first by assembling army along with other offensive and defensive units near St. Regis. Once it is taken, raze it and replace with settler. Check gems has an mp and St. Regis has a temple. If St. Regis still needs to be starved down to 1, make sure the citizen is a tax collector to collect extra gold. make sure units are left behind the rear for any iroquois boats dropping small support. Catch up on all techs by purchasing 1 tech and trading to all others. Send workers back to improve tiles that are being worked that are not improved. General rule of thumb: Grassland should contain mines and Plains should be irrigated. Start five and six on marketplaces. St regis is at a 2. Unsure if it was already starved down to 1 so check only 1 iroquios citizen
Before turn: Verified Gems has MP. Switched St. Regis to a Temple. Took down the "Wall" and moved them into cities. Both citizens in St. Regis were iroquois. Changed them to tax collectors. Zulu, Sumeria, Inca, Iroquois and greece all have Theology, Chivalry, invention.
France and china have the same techs as as we do. Keep an eye on this so we can see where the parity is so we can purchase a tech and trade it around. The Iroquois will give us 1 tech for peace and no cities. We will drag the war on. I would accept a city for peace. There was an entertainer in Gems. I pulled the warrior back to the city. Changed Three to Galley.
IBT - Greece declared war on China. Sumeria wished to continue right of passage. Accepted and Gildamesh gave us 33 gold. Bong produced an Ancient Calvary. Zulus are building Sistine Chapel. Sumerians are building Leonardo's Workshop (for us). Iro landed a spearman near three.
1) 440 AD – Placed Pikeman on top of our iron near Busiris. Ancient Calvary took out Spearman [1-0]. Shifting troops to start an attack on Cattaraugus. Fortify most units so they can get up to full strength in baracks cities. France now has Theology. I am feeling we should be buying Invention but I am holding off until another civ gets chivalry.
IBT – Shaka wants to give us 4 gpt for iron. I am willing to give him iron and 2GPT and 7 gold for Invention. Done Deal. Zulu does not have Gunpowder. Two produced Medieval Infantry create marketplace next. Iroquois troops are aligning to attempt to attack Four since I took the "wall" down. I will let them fall on our swords and pikemen. Three produced Galley. Start on another Galley (4 turns). Bong Created Marketplace. Next is Pikeman (4 turns). Six produced MI - Start on Marketplace. Deer produced MI. Create another MI (8 turns). Abydos created MI. Create another MI (6 turns)
2) 450 AD – Take out a bowman from Burisis with an AC. [2 - 0] Moved AC back into city. Sumerians have gunpowder. Turns out I made a bad deal. France and china must have just got Invention. I purchased Gunpowder from Sumerians for 837 gold, 50 GPT and Iron. I re-sold Gunpowder to Incas for Theology and Chivalry, 129 gold and 40 GPT. The inca have Education. Zulu has printing Press. Sumeria has printing press and education. After performing a quick scan, we have 1 saltpeter not hooked up yet. Priority #1 is to get workers to the mountain and get that hooked up. Our attack on Cattarugus will begin on the next turn. Built an embassy in the Inca capital. The pyramids and sun Tsu's art of war are located in their capital of Cuzco. They have 4 units garrisoned. Producing 7 shields per turn. 23 foot per turn. Size 12. They are in Republic.
IBT – I was stupid. I only put 1 pikeman on the iron. It took out a long bowman [3 - 1]. It held back 1 of their mounted warriors and the 2nd one took out the pikeman. Their mounted warriors are attempting to go back to St. Regis.
3) 460 ad – Attacked Mounted Warrior (MW) with MI. [5 - 1] Took out MW with AC [5- 1]. Elite MW took out Mw [6 - 1]. Army took out spearman in Cattaraugus. [7- 1]. Established embassy with Zulu. Oracle is located in their capital. 15 sheilds per turn. 20 food per turn. 4 units garrisoned.
IBT – Our fortified galley withstood an iroquois onslaught. [8- 1] Thebes produced MI. Started on Heroic Epic (20 turns). Four produced MI. Start on Marketplace (13 turns). Zulu are building Leonardo's workshop.
4) 470 AD – Attack on Cattarugus starts. Elite MI attack spearman just made it... [9- 1]. Elite swordsman attack spearman winner [10 1]. Elite swordsman vs MW. Winner [11- 1] and we take the city and raze it and acquire 3 workers. AC vs longbowman [12 - 1]. AC vs MW lost [12 - 2]. MI vs archer. Lose [12 - 3]. MI vs same archer. Win [13 - 3]. AC takes out MW [14 - 3]. Army takes out bowman [15 - 3].
IBT - Seven produced MI. Produce another MI. Niagra Falls (IRO) completed Sistine chappel for us. Zulu's, Sumerians and inca are buidling Leonardo's workshop. Sumerians building Magellan's voyage.
5) 480 AD – Established eight. Start on Temple (30 turns). Elite Swordsman takes out spearman with settler underneath. [16 - 3] We gain 2 more slave workers. MI takes out bowman in mountains [17 - 3]. Sent Galley out to sea to see if I can get a worker to island.
IBT - Three produced Galley. Create another galley (4 turns). Bong produced Pikeman. Start Aqueduct (12 turns). Sumerians created Leonardo's workshop. Inca building Copernicus' observatory.
6) 490 AD - Galley was not lost at sea so I was able to transfer 1 worker to the island to clear it out. Army attacks grand river. Takes out spearman [18 - 3]. Army attacks grand river again and takes out spearman [19 - 3]. Army is dangerously low in hit points.
IBT – Incas ask us to get out of their territory. We comply. Longbowman attempts to take out the army. close but Unsucessful [20 - 3]. Longbowman takes out our swordsman and takes their 2 workers back. [20 - 4].
7) 500 AD – MI takes out spearman. [21 - 4] Fortify the army outside of grand river. AC attacks Grand River spearman. winner [22 - 4]. Swordsman takes out longbowman [23 - 4]. MI takes out bowman taking back our slave workers [24 - 4]. Grand River should be under egyptian control next turn.
IBT – Five Created MI. Create Marketplace (12 turns). Bursiris produced Pikeman. Start on Musketman (30 turns). Abydos created MI. Begin on Musketman. (9 turns). Lost Galley in treacherous waters.
8) 510 AD - Switched three to a settler. MI Defeated spearman in Grand River [25 - 4]. MI defeated Spearman in Grand River and took the city. We razed it (settler en-route). [26 - 4]. We gained 4 more workers. I pressed the wrong key and had a MI go south rather than North West. He exposed a part of the iro capital but there is a longbowman waiting to greet him.
I will play 3 more turns tomorrow as the tominator only played 9 turns.
View attachment Cleopatra of the Egyptians, 510 AD.SAV
Ground rules: Don't let a city get under 2 when production worker / settler make sure no entertainers. produce medieval and Pikeman Build a couple more galleys and get a worker over to island with swampland. To get a set of workers over there, send an empty galley out 1 turn and if it survives, load galley 2 (galley in safe waters) with workers. Take galley to galley that survived. Switch workers to 2nd galley and take that galley over to safe waters. Result, no lost workers. Check Embassies to make sure they are set up in all civs. Keep a minimum of 200 gold. Make Wise tech trades.
Plan: Put most of the units sitting on the hill creating the "wall" into Four and Abydos. Keep 2 archers and 5 defensive units in Four. Keep 3 defensive units in Abydos. Attempt to take Cattaraugus first by assembling army along with other offensive and defensive units near St. Regis. Once it is taken, raze it and replace with settler. Check gems has an mp and St. Regis has a temple. If St. Regis still needs to be starved down to 1, make sure the citizen is a tax collector to collect extra gold. make sure units are left behind the rear for any iroquois boats dropping small support. Catch up on all techs by purchasing 1 tech and trading to all others. Send workers back to improve tiles that are being worked that are not improved. General rule of thumb: Grassland should contain mines and Plains should be irrigated. Start five and six on marketplaces. St regis is at a 2. Unsure if it was already starved down to 1 so check only 1 iroquios citizen
Before turn: Verified Gems has MP. Switched St. Regis to a Temple. Took down the "Wall" and moved them into cities. Both citizens in St. Regis were iroquois. Changed them to tax collectors. Zulu, Sumeria, Inca, Iroquois and greece all have Theology, Chivalry, invention.
France and china have the same techs as as we do. Keep an eye on this so we can see where the parity is so we can purchase a tech and trade it around. The Iroquois will give us 1 tech for peace and no cities. We will drag the war on. I would accept a city for peace. There was an entertainer in Gems. I pulled the warrior back to the city. Changed Three to Galley.
IBT - Greece declared war on China. Sumeria wished to continue right of passage. Accepted and Gildamesh gave us 33 gold. Bong produced an Ancient Calvary. Zulus are building Sistine Chapel. Sumerians are building Leonardo's Workshop (for us). Iro landed a spearman near three.
1) 440 AD – Placed Pikeman on top of our iron near Busiris. Ancient Calvary took out Spearman [1-0]. Shifting troops to start an attack on Cattaraugus. Fortify most units so they can get up to full strength in baracks cities. France now has Theology. I am feeling we should be buying Invention but I am holding off until another civ gets chivalry.
IBT – Shaka wants to give us 4 gpt for iron. I am willing to give him iron and 2GPT and 7 gold for Invention. Done Deal. Zulu does not have Gunpowder. Two produced Medieval Infantry create marketplace next. Iroquois troops are aligning to attempt to attack Four since I took the "wall" down. I will let them fall on our swords and pikemen. Three produced Galley. Start on another Galley (4 turns). Bong Created Marketplace. Next is Pikeman (4 turns). Six produced MI - Start on Marketplace. Deer produced MI. Create another MI (8 turns). Abydos created MI. Create another MI (6 turns)
2) 450 AD – Take out a bowman from Burisis with an AC. [2 - 0] Moved AC back into city. Sumerians have gunpowder. Turns out I made a bad deal. France and china must have just got Invention. I purchased Gunpowder from Sumerians for 837 gold, 50 GPT and Iron. I re-sold Gunpowder to Incas for Theology and Chivalry, 129 gold and 40 GPT. The inca have Education. Zulu has printing Press. Sumeria has printing press and education. After performing a quick scan, we have 1 saltpeter not hooked up yet. Priority #1 is to get workers to the mountain and get that hooked up. Our attack on Cattarugus will begin on the next turn. Built an embassy in the Inca capital. The pyramids and sun Tsu's art of war are located in their capital of Cuzco. They have 4 units garrisoned. Producing 7 shields per turn. 23 foot per turn. Size 12. They are in Republic.
IBT – I was stupid. I only put 1 pikeman on the iron. It took out a long bowman [3 - 1]. It held back 1 of their mounted warriors and the 2nd one took out the pikeman. Their mounted warriors are attempting to go back to St. Regis.
3) 460 ad – Attacked Mounted Warrior (MW) with MI. [5 - 1] Took out MW with AC [5- 1]. Elite MW took out Mw [6 - 1]. Army took out spearman in Cattaraugus. [7- 1]. Established embassy with Zulu. Oracle is located in their capital. 15 sheilds per turn. 20 food per turn. 4 units garrisoned.
IBT – Our fortified galley withstood an iroquois onslaught. [8- 1] Thebes produced MI. Started on Heroic Epic (20 turns). Four produced MI. Start on Marketplace (13 turns). Zulu are building Leonardo's workshop.
4) 470 AD – Attack on Cattarugus starts. Elite MI attack spearman just made it... [9- 1]. Elite swordsman attack spearman winner [10 1]. Elite swordsman vs MW. Winner [11- 1] and we take the city and raze it and acquire 3 workers. AC vs longbowman [12 - 1]. AC vs MW lost [12 - 2]. MI vs archer. Lose [12 - 3]. MI vs same archer. Win [13 - 3]. AC takes out MW [14 - 3]. Army takes out bowman [15 - 3].
IBT - Seven produced MI. Produce another MI. Niagra Falls (IRO) completed Sistine chappel for us. Zulu's, Sumerians and inca are buidling Leonardo's workshop. Sumerians building Magellan's voyage.
5) 480 AD – Established eight. Start on Temple (30 turns). Elite Swordsman takes out spearman with settler underneath. [16 - 3] We gain 2 more slave workers. MI takes out bowman in mountains [17 - 3]. Sent Galley out to sea to see if I can get a worker to island.
IBT - Three produced Galley. Create another galley (4 turns). Bong produced Pikeman. Start Aqueduct (12 turns). Sumerians created Leonardo's workshop. Inca building Copernicus' observatory.
6) 490 AD - Galley was not lost at sea so I was able to transfer 1 worker to the island to clear it out. Army attacks grand river. Takes out spearman [18 - 3]. Army attacks grand river again and takes out spearman [19 - 3]. Army is dangerously low in hit points.
IBT – Incas ask us to get out of their territory. We comply. Longbowman attempts to take out the army. close but Unsucessful [20 - 3]. Longbowman takes out our swordsman and takes their 2 workers back. [20 - 4].
7) 500 AD – MI takes out spearman. [21 - 4] Fortify the army outside of grand river. AC attacks Grand River spearman. winner [22 - 4]. Swordsman takes out longbowman [23 - 4]. MI takes out bowman taking back our slave workers [24 - 4]. Grand River should be under egyptian control next turn.
IBT – Five Created MI. Create Marketplace (12 turns). Bursiris produced Pikeman. Start on Musketman (30 turns). Abydos created MI. Begin on Musketman. (9 turns). Lost Galley in treacherous waters.
8) 510 AD - Switched three to a settler. MI Defeated spearman in Grand River [25 - 4]. MI defeated Spearman in Grand River and took the city. We razed it (settler en-route). [26 - 4]. We gained 4 more workers. I pressed the wrong key and had a MI go south rather than North West. He exposed a part of the iro capital but there is a longbowman waiting to greet him.
I will play 3 more turns tomorrow as the tominator only played 9 turns.
View attachment Cleopatra of the Egyptians, 510 AD.SAV
zerksees
in remission
Edit: bobbabooey nice work! Next time you are up I will have you write your own flight plan.
Tominator2 - for your benefit I decided to replay the nine turns you played. Hopefully this will give you (and lurkers if there are any left) some insight into the finer points of waging war zerksees style.
340 AD
move warrior to Gems, FP done in 24 rather than 32, gold up by 2 gpt. Move warrior from city to grassland road to cover
IBT
Archer defeats our sword who was in the forest by Busiris [0-1]
Six: med inf -> med inf
Five: med inf -> pike
Cheese: settler -> settler
Inca start Sun Tzu and Greeks start Knights Templar
1) 350 AD
change Tyendenaga to temple
no techs to trade
at Busiris med inf defeats archer, and elite sword defeats mounted warrior [2-1]
elite sword defeats archer at St. Regis [3-1]
upgrade one vet sword to med inf for 30 gold
change St. Regis to starve and build worker, stop worker from building fortress at Final Frontier
army now in Four needing filled up
fortify exploring galley to not spoil the regular game
moving workers south – slaves with little food or water
pull units from St.Regis leaving two archers
put anc cav on road east of Four fortified
IBT
Elite sword defeats mounted warrior outside Busiris [4-1]
2nd MW attacks but retreats at redline
Four: med inf -> med inf
St. regis -> worker -> temple
Iro, Inca and sumer all working Sistine Chapel
2) 360 AD
anc cav takes down MW [5-1]
5 workers head west
we are at +52 gpt
IBT
Pike defeats MW, MW defeats pike, our sword defeats archer [7-2]. We are fortified on hill outside Four.
Six: med inf -> pike
Deer: med inf -> pike
Seven: med inf -> market
3) 370 AD
Elite anc cav defeats spear on grassland [8-2]. Tominator you are correct they are headed west, but as soon as they get on the grassland I am cutting them down
Army is filled and moved SE of Four with 8 workers to road the tile
+48 gpt
IBT
Fortified galley gets to watch Inca and Chinese battle – Chinese defending spear defeats Inca knight
Thebes: marker -> med inf
Two: med inf -> med inf
4) 380AD
several have invention but Inca and Greece do not
anc cav takes down archer on grassland west of Four [9-2]
buy invention from Shaka for 45 gpt and 288 gold, sell it to Inca for Chivalry, Theology and 20 gpt, sell chivalry to France for 52 gold. Net 3 tech for cost of 25 gpt and 236 gold
hill tile south of Four is roaded
IBT
MW attacks pike fortified on hill and loses [10-2]
Abydos: med inf -> med inf
Alps: temple -> pike
Zulu building Sistine
SoZ puts out another ancient cav
5) 390 AD
we now have 4 Iro MW, 1 archer and two spears in our territory, they are following the mountain ridge west, except eventually they get off, and then they get crushed
anc cav takes out another spear on the grassland [11-2]
oops a settler was on go to and is now in range of the Iro MW. Put a pike and a sword on to defend. Sadly they are in the grassland.
Army and workers cannot move to mountain tile as Iros are there. Not going to attack on a mountain so we wait
IBT
MW attacks pike and loses – pike is redlined [12-2]
MW attacks sword and wins [12-3]
6) 400 AD
anc cav avenges our sword and takes down MW [13-3]
upgrade a sword to med inf for 30 gold
still can’t get on the mountain with the army and workers
IBT
Three: med inf -> aqueduct
Four: med inf -> pike
Five: pike -> market
Sumerians building some lookout for Copernicus
7) 410 AD
now some units are in the open
med inf defeats archer
anc cav defeats MW
anc cav defeats MW
elite sword defeats MW [17-3] All of these are in the grasslands making a futile attempt to get to our core
The mountain is still blocked – so our army, three med inf, one sword, four workers enter Iro territory
IBT
Pike defeat MW, anc cav defeat longbow – serves them right for attacking us on a hill [19-3]
Oooh – a single Iro archer lands in the west
Thebes: med inf -> pike
Tyendenaga: temple -> pike
8) 420 AD
med inf defeats archer, anc cav loses to spear, army moves south and make opening attack on Grand River winning [21-4]
the rest of the attack force moves in range, including two ancient cav dispatched from Four
IBT
Pike defeats attacking longbow, however Iro finishes our pike with a MW [22-5]
Six: pike -> market
Deer: pike -> med inf
We can build heroic epic. Greeks building workshop for Leo
9) 430 AD
Assault on Grand River
Med inf defeats spear, second med inf defeats spear, anc cav defeats another spear, second anc cav defeats elite warrior and the city is ours. I raze it. [26-5]
build Large&InCharge next to the city, move new slaves into the new city
I saved the game right on the spot
We have 76 units
Forbidden Palace due in 16, with three marketplaces under construction
Iroquois will give education for peace, but I think we can get that when there are just a few cities left
Tominator2 - for your benefit I decided to replay the nine turns you played. Hopefully this will give you (and lurkers if there are any left) some insight into the finer points of waging war zerksees style.
340 AD
move warrior to Gems, FP done in 24 rather than 32, gold up by 2 gpt. Move warrior from city to grassland road to cover
IBT
Archer defeats our sword who was in the forest by Busiris [0-1]
Six: med inf -> med inf
Five: med inf -> pike
Cheese: settler -> settler
Inca start Sun Tzu and Greeks start Knights Templar
1) 350 AD
change Tyendenaga to temple
no techs to trade
at Busiris med inf defeats archer, and elite sword defeats mounted warrior [2-1]
elite sword defeats archer at St. Regis [3-1]
upgrade one vet sword to med inf for 30 gold
change St. Regis to starve and build worker, stop worker from building fortress at Final Frontier
army now in Four needing filled up
fortify exploring galley to not spoil the regular game
moving workers south – slaves with little food or water
pull units from St.Regis leaving two archers
put anc cav on road east of Four fortified
IBT
Elite sword defeats mounted warrior outside Busiris [4-1]
2nd MW attacks but retreats at redline
Four: med inf -> med inf
St. regis -> worker -> temple
Iro, Inca and sumer all working Sistine Chapel
2) 360 AD
anc cav takes down MW [5-1]
5 workers head west
we are at +52 gpt
IBT
Pike defeats MW, MW defeats pike, our sword defeats archer [7-2]. We are fortified on hill outside Four.
Six: med inf -> pike
Deer: med inf -> pike
Seven: med inf -> market
3) 370 AD
Elite anc cav defeats spear on grassland [8-2]. Tominator you are correct they are headed west, but as soon as they get on the grassland I am cutting them down
Army is filled and moved SE of Four with 8 workers to road the tile
+48 gpt
IBT
Fortified galley gets to watch Inca and Chinese battle – Chinese defending spear defeats Inca knight
Thebes: marker -> med inf
Two: med inf -> med inf
4) 380AD
several have invention but Inca and Greece do not
anc cav takes down archer on grassland west of Four [9-2]
buy invention from Shaka for 45 gpt and 288 gold, sell it to Inca for Chivalry, Theology and 20 gpt, sell chivalry to France for 52 gold. Net 3 tech for cost of 25 gpt and 236 gold
hill tile south of Four is roaded
IBT
MW attacks pike fortified on hill and loses [10-2]
Abydos: med inf -> med inf
Alps: temple -> pike
Zulu building Sistine
SoZ puts out another ancient cav
5) 390 AD
we now have 4 Iro MW, 1 archer and two spears in our territory, they are following the mountain ridge west, except eventually they get off, and then they get crushed
anc cav takes out another spear on the grassland [11-2]
oops a settler was on go to and is now in range of the Iro MW. Put a pike and a sword on to defend. Sadly they are in the grassland.
Army and workers cannot move to mountain tile as Iros are there. Not going to attack on a mountain so we wait
IBT
MW attacks pike and loses – pike is redlined [12-2]
MW attacks sword and wins [12-3]
6) 400 AD
anc cav avenges our sword and takes down MW [13-3]
upgrade a sword to med inf for 30 gold
still can’t get on the mountain with the army and workers
IBT
Three: med inf -> aqueduct
Four: med inf -> pike
Five: pike -> market
Sumerians building some lookout for Copernicus
7) 410 AD
now some units are in the open
med inf defeats archer
anc cav defeats MW
anc cav defeats MW
elite sword defeats MW [17-3] All of these are in the grasslands making a futile attempt to get to our core
The mountain is still blocked – so our army, three med inf, one sword, four workers enter Iro territory
IBT
Pike defeat MW, anc cav defeat longbow – serves them right for attacking us on a hill [19-3]
Oooh – a single Iro archer lands in the west
Thebes: med inf -> pike
Tyendenaga: temple -> pike
8) 420 AD
med inf defeats archer, anc cav loses to spear, army moves south and make opening attack on Grand River winning [21-4]
the rest of the attack force moves in range, including two ancient cav dispatched from Four
IBT
Pike defeats attacking longbow, however Iro finishes our pike with a MW [22-5]
Six: pike -> market
Deer: pike -> med inf
We can build heroic epic. Greeks building workshop for Leo
9) 430 AD
Assault on Grand River
Med inf defeats spear, second med inf defeats spear, anc cav defeats another spear, second anc cav defeats elite warrior and the city is ours. I raze it. [26-5]
build Large&InCharge next to the city, move new slaves into the new city
I saved the game right on the spot
We have 76 units
Forbidden Palace due in 16, with three marketplaces under construction
Iroquois will give education for peace, but I think we can get that when there are just a few cities left
Attachments
zerksees
in remission
General Strategy discussion:
So far bobbabooey has done a good job moving us forward with the war. The Iroquois should be cut down to just one or two cities. Taking them out completely is also an option (take the Sistine city last since we won't be razing that). If they have horses it is imperative that we acquire them. If they are working a wonder maybe we will let them finish it for us. We will probably put a few more cities than they had in the territory that we are acquiring.
Our workers should start making improvements to the unimproved tiles far enough back from the fron line - maybe our new slave workers can do that. It is important to get these new cities up to their potential, as some of them are close to our capital and should be fairly good producers.
Try to maximize opportunities for elites to attack and generate another leader. Another army will be real handy.
The Incas are our main competition. We should get whatever we can from their adversaries to make sure they all have gunpowder. This will slow the Incan advance since their knights will be fighting muskets. This type of meddling will hopefully keep the Incas from running away with the continent.
We should keep up the 0% science gambit a while longer.
I see our cities are growing and we want to keep our citizens at work. In general our cities should be building marketplaces, aqueducts and now temples in between settlers and war units. We will probably build some cathedrals too when cities get up around size 9 or 10. In monarchy the cities (size 7 and up)should get 3 units for military police.
Strategically now is a good time to think about our next target. I think I prefer to go after Sumeria next since they are the next closest and the biggest. We should probably stop making per-turn trades with them so that we can start the war shortly after the Iroquois conquest is complete. To be safe with our trade rep we should temporarily stop making per-turn trades with the Zulu also until after the Sumer war starts.
War with the Sumerians will be harder. They have more cities and we have been selling them iron. They might have muskets. So to minimize casualties we will start building some trebuchets. Hopefully our border with them can be strategically set up so they have to cross the grassland to get to our cities. We will also use our superior diplomatic skills to pull the Zulu into the war so we don't have to fight them ourselves. Of course if the Zulu declare on us I am sure our Sumerian friends will join us...
If we acquire the horses we should temporarily disconnect our iron so we can build some 3-man chariots to use to get our golden age. Four or five should be enough - we can discuss this when we get that far.
Right now we are keeping up with monarchy so we can stay there a while longer. We may want to convert to republic. This is not decided yet, but monarchy avoids all the war weariness factor and the 2 gpt unit support cost of republic has dulled my enthusiasm for that government. Maybe communism when we can get it.
bobbabooey you can download CrpMapStat here
So far bobbabooey has done a good job moving us forward with the war. The Iroquois should be cut down to just one or two cities. Taking them out completely is also an option (take the Sistine city last since we won't be razing that). If they have horses it is imperative that we acquire them. If they are working a wonder maybe we will let them finish it for us. We will probably put a few more cities than they had in the territory that we are acquiring.
Our workers should start making improvements to the unimproved tiles far enough back from the fron line - maybe our new slave workers can do that. It is important to get these new cities up to their potential, as some of them are close to our capital and should be fairly good producers.
Try to maximize opportunities for elites to attack and generate another leader. Another army will be real handy.
The Incas are our main competition. We should get whatever we can from their adversaries to make sure they all have gunpowder. This will slow the Incan advance since their knights will be fighting muskets. This type of meddling will hopefully keep the Incas from running away with the continent.
We should keep up the 0% science gambit a while longer.
I see our cities are growing and we want to keep our citizens at work. In general our cities should be building marketplaces, aqueducts and now temples in between settlers and war units. We will probably build some cathedrals too when cities get up around size 9 or 10. In monarchy the cities (size 7 and up)should get 3 units for military police.
Strategically now is a good time to think about our next target. I think I prefer to go after Sumeria next since they are the next closest and the biggest. We should probably stop making per-turn trades with them so that we can start the war shortly after the Iroquois conquest is complete. To be safe with our trade rep we should temporarily stop making per-turn trades with the Zulu also until after the Sumer war starts.
War with the Sumerians will be harder. They have more cities and we have been selling them iron. They might have muskets. So to minimize casualties we will start building some trebuchets. Hopefully our border with them can be strategically set up so they have to cross the grassland to get to our cities. We will also use our superior diplomatic skills to pull the Zulu into the war so we don't have to fight them ourselves. Of course if the Zulu declare on us I am sure our Sumerian friends will join us...
If we acquire the horses we should temporarily disconnect our iron so we can build some 3-man chariots to use to get our golden age. Four or five should be enough - we can discuss this when we get that far.
Right now we are keeping up with monarchy so we can stay there a while longer. We may want to convert to republic. This is not decided yet, but monarchy avoids all the war weariness factor and the 2 gpt unit support cost of republic has dulled my enthusiasm for that government. Maybe communism when we can get it.
bobbabooey you can download CrpMapStat here
bobbabooey
Chieftain
continued......
IBT Our MI is taken out by a longbowman near the iroquios capital. Longbowman takes out 1 of our spearmen. [25 - 6]. Did a Ctrl Shift M to show what commodities are on the map. The Zulu have Saltpeter and the Sumerians have Iron. Sumerians are building JS Bach's Cathedral.
9) 520 AD Took out a Longbowman with swordsman [26 - 6]. Traded Gunpowder to France for 8 gold. Basically, I am giving it to them so they can fight off the Incas. Traded Gunpowder to China for 1 gpt plus 30 gold. China only has 6 cities left.
IBT Longbowman took out our swordsman in a close battle. Longbowman attacked our AC and lost. [27 - 7]. Three produced a settler. Started production on a Trebuchet (6 turns). Deer produced MI. Start on Trebuchet (6 turns). Tyenenaga produced pikeman. Started on Musketman (15 turns).
10) 530 AD Moved another worker to island. AC took out longbowman [28 - 7]. re-align units so we have proper mp in each city so we can avoid entertainers. Preparing a stack to attack the Iroquois capital.
IBT - Longbowman attempted to attack our AC. He was unsuccessful. [29 - 7]. Booey produced MI. Started on Trebuchet (15 turns). Bong produced an AC.
11) 540 AD - Loaded a settler in a galley to attempt to send to island if galley in the middle lasts.... AC attempted to take out spearman with settler underneath. AC retreated. Founded Nine North of Iroquois capital. Start on Musketman.
Zerksees is up next.
View attachment Cleopatra of the Egyptians, 540 AD.SAV
IBT Our MI is taken out by a longbowman near the iroquios capital. Longbowman takes out 1 of our spearmen. [25 - 6]. Did a Ctrl Shift M to show what commodities are on the map. The Zulu have Saltpeter and the Sumerians have Iron. Sumerians are building JS Bach's Cathedral.
9) 520 AD Took out a Longbowman with swordsman [26 - 6]. Traded Gunpowder to France for 8 gold. Basically, I am giving it to them so they can fight off the Incas. Traded Gunpowder to China for 1 gpt plus 30 gold. China only has 6 cities left.
IBT Longbowman took out our swordsman in a close battle. Longbowman attacked our AC and lost. [27 - 7]. Three produced a settler. Started production on a Trebuchet (6 turns). Deer produced MI. Start on Trebuchet (6 turns). Tyenenaga produced pikeman. Started on Musketman (15 turns).
10) 530 AD Moved another worker to island. AC took out longbowman [28 - 7]. re-align units so we have proper mp in each city so we can avoid entertainers. Preparing a stack to attack the Iroquois capital.
IBT - Longbowman attempted to attack our AC. He was unsuccessful. [29 - 7]. Booey produced MI. Started on Trebuchet (15 turns). Bong produced an AC.
11) 540 AD - Loaded a settler in a galley to attempt to send to island if galley in the middle lasts.... AC attempted to take out spearman with settler underneath. AC retreated. Founded Nine North of Iroquois capital. Start on Musketman.
Zerksees is up next.
View attachment Cleopatra of the Egyptians, 540 AD.SAV
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
pictures. the lurkers want more pictures. 
once u get communism, IMHO, u can do this as no research
once u get communism, IMHO, u can do this as no research
zerksees
in remission
540 AD Pre-flight:
Since we are still not ending on the even tens, I will play 11 turns this time.
Rename Tyendenaga to Pompeii - it is at the base of a volcano after all
Abydos has unimproved grassland tile, yet we are roading the mountain tile?
Change Abydos to settler
Notice that Niagra Falls has Sistine Chapel. We should keep this city when we take it.
Change Three and Pithom to settler
Our troops are all scattered about and not well defended. Our cities do not appear to be at any immediate risk but the troops are
IBT
Greece and China make peace
Iro longbow defeats unprotected med inf [0-1]
Galley lost in treacherous waters
Turn 1 - 550AD
China has 5 cities left, no saltpeter and no iron. I can't help them with their valiant effort against the evil Inca. They need Pizarro.
We are in fourth place in score with 788, and Inca lead with 1134, followed by Sumerians and Zulu
Now I have to clean up this train wreck of an army - start organizing the troops.
Med inf attacks spear in the woods [1-1], and the Iro settler gives us two slave workers (+2s).
Army takes down a longbow [2-1]
Upgrade a sword to med inf for 30 gold
We need that settler so the island take goes to the back burner
Change Abydos to med inf
IBT
Iroquois ready to give printing press and education for peace. Not yet Hiawatha as we need more cities
St. Regis: temple -> musket
Pithom: settler -> med inf
No attacks
Turn 2 - 560 AD
Attack force reforming: 5 med inf, 2 elite sword in woods south of Nine. Army defending Nine this turn. Planning to move on Salamanca.
Change Pompeii to temple (culture pressure up around 1%), change Booey and Cheese to settlers.
We do not start any attacks
IBT
Longbow falls to our pike in the woods [3-1]
Seven: med inf -> musket
Final Frontier: pike -> settler
Two longbows approach our attack force
Turn 3 - 570 AD
China hanging tough with 5 cities.
Army takes out a longbow losing 3 hit points, and elite med inf takes out other longbow [5-1]
Stack moves out from the woods under the army.
Change Deer to medieval infantry
IBT
Seven: Med inf -> musket
Inca finish Copernicus. We are tech backwards and cannot allow this to continue!
Turn 4 - 580 AD
Stack moves up alongside Salamanca: 2 anc cav, 6 med inf, 2 elite sword, 8/11 army and a pike following for backup
IBT
SoZ -> anc cav
Sumerians working on JS Bachs
Turn 5 - 590 AD
Ladies and gentlemen, let's get ready to RUMBLE!!!
Six medieval infantry attack spears and five lose [6-6]
Army defeats a spear, elite sword redlines but beats spear, vet anc cav beats spear, elite word defeats spear, another vet anc cav defeats spear [11-6].
We blow the trumpets and Salamanca falls. Egyptians in da house! The city is razed netting 10 workers and a trebuchet (+12s). Also found 6 gold pieces in the rubble.
Elite anc cav defeats a longbow and a leader is created! [12-6] Going to make another army of medieval infantry.
Change Booey to temple, change Abydos to settler
Moving settler near Salamanca
Now Hiawatha will give the two techs, 55 gold and Kahnawake for peace. Not yet though
Notice the Iroquois must not have horses, the Zulu have an extra they must have been buying.
IBT
No attacks. The Iroquois are out of gas
Four: market -> med inf
Turn 6 - 600 AD
Plan to move on Mauch Chunk. New Salamanca is formed and leader created to army there.
Vet anc cav takes spear and settler gaining use two more workers [13-6] (+14s)
IBT
Two: market -> lnogbow
Bong: aqueduct -> longbow
Deer: med inf -> settler
Abydos: settler -> market
Pompeii: temple -> musket
Turn 7 - 610 AD
Moving units around, one army and ancient cavs moving toward Mauch Chunk
No attacks
IBT
Our exploring galley sees a lot of Inca knights moving through Greece with a right of passage. Didn't I tell you they were evil?
Two longbows appear near New Salamanca
Gems: forbidden palace -> market
Turn 8 - 620 AD
Seven does not have enough units and is starving. Up lux to 10% to avoid this.
Change Seven to temple
Army defeats longbow on way to Mauch Chunk [14-6]
Units are in range for Mauch Chunk assault
Trebuchet hits longbow, the elite sword defeats him generating a third great leader! [15-6] I hesitate for a moment but decide this one is also going to be a medieval infantry army.
IBT
The Pentagon - our people want us to build the Pentagon
Six: market -> settler
Wines: pike -> settler
Turn 9 - 630 AD
Assault on Mauch Chunk:
3 spears fall to army attacks [18-6]
anc cav loses to spear, then second anc cav defeats last spear [19-7] and the city falls! Five more slave workers (+19s)
anc cav defeats a longbow in the open [20-7]
I really want Tonawanda, but Iro will not give it for peace. The army is going to need a turn or two to rest and regroup, then march through the jungle. This just will not work fast enough, and I want those free techs.
Make peace with Hiawatha collecting printing press, education, Kahnawake, 1 gold
Shaka has astronomy, Gilgamesh music theory, astronomy and banking, Iro music theory and astronomy. Inca have astonomy and banking, not printing press. China, Greece and France have no techs ahead of us.
Inca sell us banking for printing press and 135 gold
Shaka sells us astronomy for banking, 5 gold, 15 gpt (could have done 275 gold but want Shaka to have a reason to be nice to us)
Sold chivalry to China for 50 gold. They are so backward I'll take 50 gold for this optional tech. We have plenty more to bribe them with when the time comes.
Noticed Sumerians have democracy and navigation as well. Iroquois have navigation and music theory, but lack banking
Trade banking to Iroquois for navigation. I know it is an optional tech but now we can trade across the ocean!
Sell printing press to France for 20 gpt, 29 gold and world map
Sell printing press to Greece for 2 gpt, 50 gold and world map
Buy China's world map for 25 gold - should have made them throw it in for chivalry!
Set up embassies in Athens, Paries and Niagra Falls. Nothing noteworthy in any of them
Bottom line: spent our war effort and 68 gold, collected printing press, education, banking, astronomy, navigation, several world maps and 5 gpt.
Our science advisor is again pleased. "We are technologically advanced!" he proclaims.
We no longer need to explore as we have the whole map.
Start moving some units north to tackle the Sumerian city up there
IBT
ROP with Sumerians ends
Zulu want to trade world maps - no thanks
Iro's threaten, we leave
Thebes: heroic epic -> med inf
Five: market -> temple
SoZ -> ancient cav
Turn 10 - 640 AD
These musketmen are taking too long to build with our current infrastructure. I don't like our outer cities being defended by archers. I tried to sell the saltpeter but can't get much money for it. So I decide to temporarily disconnect our saltpeter so we can build some pikes.
Change Two, Seven, Pompeii and Alps to pikeman.
Upgrade three spears to pikes for 90 gold
Found zerksees at Mauch Chunk ruins
IBT
Joan warns about our galley - we apologize
Two: pike -> pike
Three: musket -> med inf
Four: med inf -> pike
Deer: settler -> pike
Seven: pike -> med inf
Cheese: settler -> pike
Booey: temple -> longbow
Alps: pike -> treb
Turn 11 - 650 AD
Found Da Bomb at ruins of Grand River
Try to buy military alliance against Sumeria with Zulu and Hiawatha. Neither will budge.
Declare war on Sumeria.
Get military alliance against Sumeria with Shaka giving iron and getting spices
Get military alliance against Sumeria with Hiawatha giving iron and collecting 20 gold
Sell Iroquois ivory for world map and 2 gpt. This will help them with happiness and build more units
Sign ROP with Iroquois sending one army south to pillage Sumerian saltpeter and iron resources
Sent two archers into Sumerian territory in the north and capture three workers (+22s)
The army and some ancient cav are in striking distance of Sumerians northern outpost. There is a musketman in there and who knows what else.
Commentary:
No matter what we did I felt that another war was needed. We are going to need to control our continent before we control the game, and the Zulu and Sumer have only been stockpiling units, gold and techs. I picked the Sumerians for several reasons. They are the biggest tech threat on our continent, and also the Zulu are more likely to stay at war with them after the 20 turns.
We have 41 slave workers by my count. This is good but I want more. As you can see there is a lot more to do in our newly conquered areas.
Since navigation is out it will not be long until the AI from our world meet those from the other world. We might be able to benefit selling communications before then. If you see boats from the new world, it is time to sell the communications for whatever you can get.
I got real lucky with two leaders - before heroic epic. Our next leader should be converted to an army and left empty. We will use it against the Inca, as our current armies are too large to go on caravels.
Eventually we are going to have to face the Inca, but I want to own our continent before we initiate combat with them.
Next 10 turns:
1) On the war front:
- Get up some units and take Zabalam. It should be razed, with a new city on the nearby hill
- Send army into Sumerian territory and pillage their saltpeter then horses
- Build up defenses by upgrading spears to pikes, and get at least one pike in each coastal city - particularly in the north.
- Build a couple trebuchets if possible to help with invading Sumerian muskets
- Do not expect a lot of Sumerian units to make it to our territory, but be prepared for them, and use the opportunity to try for more armies
- Next leader to create an army and leave it empty.
- I do not want heavy losses taking Sumerian cities. It would be OK if there were no attacks on their cities these 10 turns. If you go make sure our cities are defended well and we can take it without heavy losses. I would prefer to stack up units to take out the Iroquois after our ROP with them is over.
-If Kahnawake is about to fall, give it to China
2) What to build:
- Build some pikes, and some offensive units
- We need more cities. See pic for more city locations - red, pink, green, blue. There is a galley in Three to settle on that island where our workers are - and now galleys can safely cross the ocean.
- A smattering of other city improvements like markets, banks, aqueducts. Size 7 and larger cities can build temples if possible. Cites on the Iro border should finish their temples
3) Workers
- In the east they are irrigating plains to bring water and city growth to cities like St. Regis and Pompeii.
- Some workers should connect the gems near the Zulu city
4) There is no reason to give in to any demands at this time. If war is declared because of a refusal, please stop and consult with us because we might use it as an excuse to start a big war.
[Edit - Roster:
Lomax - up next
Tominator 2 - on deck
bobbabooey
zerksees ]
Since we are still not ending on the even tens, I will play 11 turns this time.
Rename Tyendenaga to Pompeii - it is at the base of a volcano after all
Abydos has unimproved grassland tile, yet we are roading the mountain tile?
Change Abydos to settler
Notice that Niagra Falls has Sistine Chapel. We should keep this city when we take it.
Change Three and Pithom to settler
Our troops are all scattered about and not well defended. Our cities do not appear to be at any immediate risk but the troops are
IBT
Greece and China make peace
Iro longbow defeats unprotected med inf [0-1]
Galley lost in treacherous waters
Turn 1 - 550AD
China has 5 cities left, no saltpeter and no iron. I can't help them with their valiant effort against the evil Inca. They need Pizarro.
We are in fourth place in score with 788, and Inca lead with 1134, followed by Sumerians and Zulu
Now I have to clean up this train wreck of an army - start organizing the troops.
Med inf attacks spear in the woods [1-1], and the Iro settler gives us two slave workers (+2s).
Army takes down a longbow [2-1]
Upgrade a sword to med inf for 30 gold
We need that settler so the island take goes to the back burner
Change Abydos to med inf
IBT
Iroquois ready to give printing press and education for peace. Not yet Hiawatha as we need more cities
St. Regis: temple -> musket
Pithom: settler -> med inf
No attacks
Turn 2 - 560 AD
Attack force reforming: 5 med inf, 2 elite sword in woods south of Nine. Army defending Nine this turn. Planning to move on Salamanca.
Change Pompeii to temple (culture pressure up around 1%), change Booey and Cheese to settlers.
We do not start any attacks
IBT
Longbow falls to our pike in the woods [3-1]
Seven: med inf -> musket
Final Frontier: pike -> settler
Two longbows approach our attack force
Turn 3 - 570 AD
China hanging tough with 5 cities.
Army takes out a longbow losing 3 hit points, and elite med inf takes out other longbow [5-1]
Stack moves out from the woods under the army.
Change Deer to medieval infantry
IBT
Seven: Med inf -> musket
Inca finish Copernicus. We are tech backwards and cannot allow this to continue!
Turn 4 - 580 AD
Stack moves up alongside Salamanca: 2 anc cav, 6 med inf, 2 elite sword, 8/11 army and a pike following for backup
IBT
SoZ -> anc cav
Sumerians working on JS Bachs
Turn 5 - 590 AD
Ladies and gentlemen, let's get ready to RUMBLE!!!
Six medieval infantry attack spears and five lose [6-6]
Army defeats a spear, elite sword redlines but beats spear, vet anc cav beats spear, elite word defeats spear, another vet anc cav defeats spear [11-6].
We blow the trumpets and Salamanca falls. Egyptians in da house! The city is razed netting 10 workers and a trebuchet (+12s). Also found 6 gold pieces in the rubble.
Elite anc cav defeats a longbow and a leader is created! [12-6] Going to make another army of medieval infantry.
Change Booey to temple, change Abydos to settler
Moving settler near Salamanca
Now Hiawatha will give the two techs, 55 gold and Kahnawake for peace. Not yet though
Notice the Iroquois must not have horses, the Zulu have an extra they must have been buying.
IBT
No attacks. The Iroquois are out of gas
Four: market -> med inf
Turn 6 - 600 AD
Plan to move on Mauch Chunk. New Salamanca is formed and leader created to army there.
Vet anc cav takes spear and settler gaining use two more workers [13-6] (+14s)
IBT
Two: market -> lnogbow
Bong: aqueduct -> longbow
Deer: med inf -> settler
Abydos: settler -> market
Pompeii: temple -> musket
Turn 7 - 610 AD
Moving units around, one army and ancient cavs moving toward Mauch Chunk
No attacks
IBT
Our exploring galley sees a lot of Inca knights moving through Greece with a right of passage. Didn't I tell you they were evil?
Two longbows appear near New Salamanca
Gems: forbidden palace -> market
Turn 8 - 620 AD
Seven does not have enough units and is starving. Up lux to 10% to avoid this.
Change Seven to temple
Army defeats longbow on way to Mauch Chunk [14-6]
Units are in range for Mauch Chunk assault
Trebuchet hits longbow, the elite sword defeats him generating a third great leader! [15-6] I hesitate for a moment but decide this one is also going to be a medieval infantry army.
IBT
The Pentagon - our people want us to build the Pentagon
Six: market -> settler
Wines: pike -> settler
Turn 9 - 630 AD
Assault on Mauch Chunk:
3 spears fall to army attacks [18-6]
anc cav loses to spear, then second anc cav defeats last spear [19-7] and the city falls! Five more slave workers (+19s)
anc cav defeats a longbow in the open [20-7]
I really want Tonawanda, but Iro will not give it for peace. The army is going to need a turn or two to rest and regroup, then march through the jungle. This just will not work fast enough, and I want those free techs.
Make peace with Hiawatha collecting printing press, education, Kahnawake, 1 gold
Shaka has astronomy, Gilgamesh music theory, astronomy and banking, Iro music theory and astronomy. Inca have astonomy and banking, not printing press. China, Greece and France have no techs ahead of us.
Inca sell us banking for printing press and 135 gold
Shaka sells us astronomy for banking, 5 gold, 15 gpt (could have done 275 gold but want Shaka to have a reason to be nice to us)
Sold chivalry to China for 50 gold. They are so backward I'll take 50 gold for this optional tech. We have plenty more to bribe them with when the time comes.
Noticed Sumerians have democracy and navigation as well. Iroquois have navigation and music theory, but lack banking
Trade banking to Iroquois for navigation. I know it is an optional tech but now we can trade across the ocean!
Sell printing press to France for 20 gpt, 29 gold and world map
Sell printing press to Greece for 2 gpt, 50 gold and world map
Buy China's world map for 25 gold - should have made them throw it in for chivalry!
Set up embassies in Athens, Paries and Niagra Falls. Nothing noteworthy in any of them
Bottom line: spent our war effort and 68 gold, collected printing press, education, banking, astronomy, navigation, several world maps and 5 gpt.
Our science advisor is again pleased. "We are technologically advanced!" he proclaims.
We no longer need to explore as we have the whole map.
Start moving some units north to tackle the Sumerian city up there
IBT
ROP with Sumerians ends
Zulu want to trade world maps - no thanks
Iro's threaten, we leave
Thebes: heroic epic -> med inf
Five: market -> temple
SoZ -> ancient cav
Turn 10 - 640 AD
These musketmen are taking too long to build with our current infrastructure. I don't like our outer cities being defended by archers. I tried to sell the saltpeter but can't get much money for it. So I decide to temporarily disconnect our saltpeter so we can build some pikes.
Change Two, Seven, Pompeii and Alps to pikeman.
Upgrade three spears to pikes for 90 gold
Found zerksees at Mauch Chunk ruins
IBT
Joan warns about our galley - we apologize
Two: pike -> pike
Three: musket -> med inf
Four: med inf -> pike
Deer: settler -> pike
Seven: pike -> med inf
Cheese: settler -> pike
Booey: temple -> longbow
Alps: pike -> treb
Turn 11 - 650 AD
Found Da Bomb at ruins of Grand River
Try to buy military alliance against Sumeria with Zulu and Hiawatha. Neither will budge.
Declare war on Sumeria.
Get military alliance against Sumeria with Shaka giving iron and getting spices
Get military alliance against Sumeria with Hiawatha giving iron and collecting 20 gold
Sell Iroquois ivory for world map and 2 gpt. This will help them with happiness and build more units
Sign ROP with Iroquois sending one army south to pillage Sumerian saltpeter and iron resources
Sent two archers into Sumerian territory in the north and capture three workers (+22s)
The army and some ancient cav are in striking distance of Sumerians northern outpost. There is a musketman in there and who knows what else.
Commentary:
No matter what we did I felt that another war was needed. We are going to need to control our continent before we control the game, and the Zulu and Sumer have only been stockpiling units, gold and techs. I picked the Sumerians for several reasons. They are the biggest tech threat on our continent, and also the Zulu are more likely to stay at war with them after the 20 turns.
We have 41 slave workers by my count. This is good but I want more. As you can see there is a lot more to do in our newly conquered areas.
Since navigation is out it will not be long until the AI from our world meet those from the other world. We might be able to benefit selling communications before then. If you see boats from the new world, it is time to sell the communications for whatever you can get.
I got real lucky with two leaders - before heroic epic. Our next leader should be converted to an army and left empty. We will use it against the Inca, as our current armies are too large to go on caravels.
Eventually we are going to have to face the Inca, but I want to own our continent before we initiate combat with them.
Next 10 turns:
1) On the war front:
- Get up some units and take Zabalam. It should be razed, with a new city on the nearby hill
- Send army into Sumerian territory and pillage their saltpeter then horses
- Build up defenses by upgrading spears to pikes, and get at least one pike in each coastal city - particularly in the north.
- Build a couple trebuchets if possible to help with invading Sumerian muskets
- Do not expect a lot of Sumerian units to make it to our territory, but be prepared for them, and use the opportunity to try for more armies
- Next leader to create an army and leave it empty.
- I do not want heavy losses taking Sumerian cities. It would be OK if there were no attacks on their cities these 10 turns. If you go make sure our cities are defended well and we can take it without heavy losses. I would prefer to stack up units to take out the Iroquois after our ROP with them is over.
-If Kahnawake is about to fall, give it to China
2) What to build:
- Build some pikes, and some offensive units
- We need more cities. See pic for more city locations - red, pink, green, blue. There is a galley in Three to settle on that island where our workers are - and now galleys can safely cross the ocean.
- A smattering of other city improvements like markets, banks, aqueducts. Size 7 and larger cities can build temples if possible. Cites on the Iro border should finish their temples
3) Workers
- In the east they are irrigating plains to bring water and city growth to cities like St. Regis and Pompeii.
- Some workers should connect the gems near the Zulu city
4) There is no reason to give in to any demands at this time. If war is declared because of a refusal, please stop and consult with us because we might use it as an excuse to start a big war.
[Edit - Roster:
Lomax - up next
Tominator 2 - on deck
bobbabooey
zerksees ]
Attachments
Zabalam is no longer
City is built on red dot
Will have cities on green dot next turn
Sent galley to blue dot, will settle in 2 3 turns
Armies in route to saltpeter, and horses,
Each outer coastal city now has at least 1 pike
The best offense unit I have seen from the Sumerians in the long archer, only minor probing attacks into IRO territory
Lost 1 MF and took 7 Sumerians
Now have 96 units started with 87
Thoughts
Should I switch from pikes and MF to trebuchets?
Should I continue to the Saltpeter and horse or turn back and position armies next to the IRO for the next war
City is built on red dot
Will have cities on green dot next turn
Sent galley to blue dot, will settle in 2 3 turns
Armies in route to saltpeter, and horses,
Each outer coastal city now has at least 1 pike
The best offense unit I have seen from the Sumerians in the long archer, only minor probing attacks into IRO territory
Lost 1 MF and took 7 Sumerians
Now have 96 units started with 87
Thoughts
Should I switch from pikes and MF to trebuchets?
Should I continue to the Saltpeter and horse or turn back and position armies next to the IRO for the next war
zerksees
in remission
I am quite pleased as the Zulu must be keeping the Sumerians busy - that and the great wonders they are building for us.
Since Sumerian response is so light I would consider having war with both Sumer and Iroquois - after our deal with Iroquois is up. We will just make sure our Zulu friends keep it up against Sumeria.
Let us build up for the final assault on Iroquois to be followed shortly after by a renewed round of attacks on Sumeria.
Build up 10-15 trebuchet, more medieval infantry and at least 5-6 settlers. If you want a few more pikes to defend cities that is fine too. Cities already building infrastructure should be allowed to finish except for emergencies.
I think the saltpeter and horses are fairly close. If they are not then we should pillage the saltpeter and surrounding tiles. Denying them musketman will expedite their demise.
When the Iroquois treaty is up we can take them down, then go all out against the Sumerians. Remember we will keep up raze and replace except for wonder cities and size 2-3 cities. We are going to need rails soon and we don't have enough workers for that yet.
Since Sumerian response is so light I would consider having war with both Sumer and Iroquois - after our deal with Iroquois is up. We will just make sure our Zulu friends keep it up against Sumeria.
Let us build up for the final assault on Iroquois to be followed shortly after by a renewed round of attacks on Sumeria.
Build up 10-15 trebuchet, more medieval infantry and at least 5-6 settlers. If you want a few more pikes to defend cities that is fine too. Cities already building infrastructure should be allowed to finish except for emergencies.
I think the saltpeter and horses are fairly close. If they are not then we should pillage the saltpeter and surrounding tiles. Denying them musketman will expedite their demise.
When the Iroquois treaty is up we can take them down, then go all out against the Sumerians. Remember we will keep up raze and replace except for wonder cities and size 2-3 cities. We are going to need rails soon and we don't have enough workers for that yet.
zerksees
in remission
Looking at the save I see Pachacuti has taken Greeks two largest cities already. We have no deals with him at the moment.
Should we start a war with him also?
We could sign a military alliance with France, and give them saltpeter. They are small now but would have a golden age shortly after they have some victories with their musketeers. Looking for opinions.
I think Pachacuti needs to be put in check or we are going to have a monster on our hands.
Should we start a war with him also?
We could sign a military alliance with France, and give them saltpeter. They are small now but would have a golden age shortly after they have some victories with their musketeers. Looking for opinions.
I think Pachacuti needs to be put in check or we are going to have a monster on our hands.
Tominator2
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2004
- Messages
- 21
How many wars can we reasonably wage at once? IIRC, we're taking on the Iro by ourselves (although that's dormant right now, it'll probably flare up again before the end of my turn), and the Sumerians with the Zulus helping us. If we go after Pachacuti can we trust the other civs (the Zulu especially) not to pile on us? Could we win all three wars? What would our goals be?
zerksees
in remission
Right now we are at peace with the Iroquois. They are a token civilization with the right to live until the peace treaty is over. We will finish them soon.
Right after them we will start a real assault on the Sumerians.
While we will have war with the Inca we will not actually be sending any units to attack them. We would be doing it strictly to bring France into the war against the Inca.
There are several goals. Goal number 1 is to own our continent. The Zulu are unwittingly making that easier for us. We will do that by taking down the Iroquois then the Sumerians then the Zulu.
Goal number 2 it to own the other continent. That will be a whole lot easier if the Inca do not own the whole thing. Pachacuti declared war on the Greeks and is well on his way to owning the whole continent. So if we sit back and let him chew up the other AI one by one he will be owning his continent before we own ours.
As far as the Zulu, they have a war already. If they declare war on us without making peace with the Sumerians then it is no too likely that any units will make it past the Sumerians. If they do make peace with the Sumerians we can switch sides right after our alliance with the Iroquois is up and align the Sumerians against the Zulu. I have faith in Shaka - he will stay against the Sumerians. If he makes peace we should buy him right back into the war.
Right after them we will start a real assault on the Sumerians.
While we will have war with the Inca we will not actually be sending any units to attack them. We would be doing it strictly to bring France into the war against the Inca.
There are several goals. Goal number 1 is to own our continent. The Zulu are unwittingly making that easier for us. We will do that by taking down the Iroquois then the Sumerians then the Zulu.
Goal number 2 it to own the other continent. That will be a whole lot easier if the Inca do not own the whole thing. Pachacuti declared war on the Greeks and is well on his way to owning the whole continent. So if we sit back and let him chew up the other AI one by one he will be owning his continent before we own ours.
As far as the Zulu, they have a war already. If they declare war on us without making peace with the Sumerians then it is no too likely that any units will make it past the Sumerians. If they do make peace with the Sumerians we can switch sides right after our alliance with the Iroquois is up and align the Sumerians against the Zulu. I have faith in Shaka - he will stay against the Sumerians. If he makes peace we should buy him right back into the war.
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