Rise of Asia

Shirou mentioned that he's back in Japan for the summer and does not have access to a computer that would allow for Civ3 modding. I dunno where SoG is.
 
I've had PM from SoG; he's looking at the map. If Shirou needs it (ie can't d/l & open a biq, but can read the forum), I can post thumbnails along the way. Since my mapwork will probably take well more than a month at my current pace, the main work he'll have to do is the same critiquing I want from the rest of you.

We've got Landmark Terrain to handle special cases like the Himalayas. For readers who may not be familiar, in general, Landmark Terrain looks the same as its standard counterpart (in game; it's visually flagged in the editor), but can have different game values set. It is used, for example, to create forest that produces more shields. An example of that is the Cedar terrain in the TAM mod.

Should I post a list of the standard terrains available in the C3C editior?
 
SoG: The map's d/l link is in post #275, previous page (look for the hammering dingbat).

The Terrains we have to work with are:
Ocean, Sea, Coast; Desert, Plains, Grassland, Bonus Grassland, Floodplains, Tundra; Hills, Mountains, Volcano; Forest, Jungle, Marsh.
SnowCapped Mountains and Pine Forest are listed seperately in the Editor but seem to share game values with their parent while being visually distinct.

Landmark Terrains (which I understand can be assigned values and visuals different from their parent):
Sea, Desert, Plains, Grassland, Hills, Mountains, Forest

I'm still trying to learn about LM Terrain. The info is buried in scattered threads that are all on other topics.
 
There are huge tracts of jungle, but do bamboo forests exist on a scale large enough to make them visible or signficant in game terms? What would differentiate bamboo from jungle in mechanical (movement) terms?

Given its myriad of uses throughout Asian history and culture, perhaps bamboo would be more appropriate as a resource (?).

Additional terrain: Impassable mountains (landmarked snow capped)

The Great Wall of China could either be pre-placed as terrain or buildable during the game as a special "barricade" available only to China.
 
I'm in the middle of filtering every reference I can find to LM through my brain. It looks like "impassable mountains" has to be a base terrain type; the LM takes its impassability flag setting from the base terrain. To create impassable Himalayas either all mountains have to be impassable, or we have to sacrifice some other terrain (like volcanos or marsh) to use its slot for the new impassable terrain. volcanos are linked to their special animations and spoiling surrounding territory: swapping them out would be tricky, and would spoil a lot of the flavor of trying to build a civ in Indonesia (no Krakatoa). It would be a shame to lose the ability to have the Rann of Kutch and other estuary wetlands. So far the only place I'm planning on using Tundra is as the base for Taiga. Maybe Tundra could be repplaced by the graphics for Snow-Capped Mountains to become the impassable terrain and I'd use something else as the base for Taiga.

I like the idea of Bamboo as resource. But a bamboo forest does sound like an interesting graphic. An overlay graphic that would be outstanding in this scenario would be rice-cultivation terraces/paddies rather than the corn-row irrigation everyone uses now.
 
You have to watch out when using tundra, flood plains and desert, though. They don't work well either together or with many other types of terrain
 
Virote_Considon said:
You have to watch out when using tundra, flood plains and desert, though. They don't work well either together or with many other types of terrain
Click to expand...
The impassable mountains will be in the middle of the Himalayas, surrounded by other mountains. What can you let us know about that situation?
 
Blue Monkey said:
I'm in the middle of filtering every reference I can find to LM through my brain. It looks like "impassable mountains" has to be a base terrain type; the LM takes its impassability flag setting from the base terrain.

An overlay graphic that would be outstanding in this scenario would be rice-cultivation terraces/paddies rather than the corn-row irrigation everyone uses now.
Click to expand...

Maybe if we put out an SOS in the C&C forum? Somebody has to have done impassable mountains (easily). I've also seen where people have added additional terrain types.

Rice paddies as irrigation sounds good.
 
7ronin said:
Maybe if we put out an SOS in the C&C forum? Somebody has to have done impassable mountains (easily).
Click to expand...
The filtering i'm doing starts with "googling" the forae for references to Landmark Terrain. I'll find the answer. Most have settled for the easy answer of either making all mountains impassable or setting LM Mountains so that roads can't be built, but non-wheeled units can still get through. It will be nice to have some mountains that nobody gets through.
 
Virote_Considon said:
How about making all mountains impassable, but pre-placing roads through the "passes"?
Click to expand...
I'd like the "passes" to need to be discovered, and not to have the road bonus from the beginning. It's still a good Idea, and sparked me to the following: change the passes, not the majority of mountains. I'm going to see if one of the other terrains that has LM (like hills or desert that normally have a movement penalty) can be completely surrounded by Mountains. If so, we can use its LM slot (and reset the movement, shield, etc. values) with mountain graphics to portray the passes.

EDIT: The issue that using LM of one to mimic another terrain can make the editor do undesirable things. for example, since you can't have grassland next to a desert, if you try to use LM desert to go next to grassland, the editor automatically changes the adjacent grassland to plains, regardless of what graphic you have in the LM desert slot. As the thumbnail shows, since we only need our passes to be next to the mountains that are impassable, or a hill tile at the entrance to the pass, we can use either the LM hills, LM plains or the LM desert to solve the problem, using the Mountain/SnowCapped Mt. graphics that already exist. Lm Terrain is highlighted in the editor by a yellow diamond.
 
The movement penalties themselves can be set specifically for the Terrain. I'd suggest using LM Hills, because they can't get destroyed via worker actions.
 
7ronin said:
There are huge tracts of jungle, but do bamboo forests exist on a scale large enough to make them visible or signficant in game terms? What would differentiate bamboo from jungle in mechanical (movement) terms?
Click to expand...

There's somewhere in the neighborhood of 12 MILLION acres of COMMERCIAL bamboo forests in China alone.... As a matter of fact, bamboo farming was initialized about 1000 years ago to re-forest areas where the deciduos hardwood forests had been clearcut....

SO, you could use the forests as LM terrain, and have the bamboo forests be what you can plant... and give bamboo increased food and production values.... 1 acre of bamboo can yeild over 2x the wood that 1 acre of Lobolly pine (or most other deciduous or evergreen trees) can. In addition, bamboo shoots can be harvested as well.

another interesting bamboo fact: Bamboo can be farmed almost like a perennial crop, since 1) a forest is actually a single plant connected by underground rhizomes, and 2) a 90 ft tall, 10" thick culm of P. edulis (Moso, the most common bamboo in China) not only reaches that size in ONE GROWING SEASON, but it gets that big in ABOUT 3 MONTHS!!!!

If the US were to switch paper production from farming pine trees to bamboo, we could easily halt the destruction of forested areas through logging, since about 500 acres of bamboo can sustain 1 paper mill's production indefinitely.

Just some fun bamboo facts that you guys might want to consider.
 
Hikaro Takayama said:
There's somewhere in the neighborhood of 12 MILLION acres of COMMERCIAL bamboo forests in China alone.... As a matter of fact, bamboo farming was initialized about 1000 years ago to re-forest areas where the deciduos hardwood forests had been clearcut....

SO, you could use the forests as LM terrain, and have the bamboo forests be what you can plant... and give bamboo increased food and production values.... 1 acre of bamboo can yeild over 2x the wood that 1 acre of Lobolly pine (or most other deciduous or evergreen trees) can. In addition, bamboo shoots can be harvested as well.

another interesting bamboo fact: Bamboo can be farmed almost like a perennial crop, since 1) a forest is actually a single plant connected by underground rhizomes, and 2) a 90 ft tall, 10" thick culm of P. edulis (Moso, the most common bamboo in China) not only reaches that size in ONE GROWING SEASON, but it gets that big in ABOUT 3 MONTHS!!!!

If the US were to switch paper production from farming pine trees to bamboo, we could easily halt the destruction of forested areas through logging, since about 500 acres of bamboo can sustain 1 paper mill's production indefinitely.

Just some fun bamboo facts that you guys might want to consider.
Click to expand...

Guys I think we should seriously implement what Hikaro is saying here...
 
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