Monstrous Creatures

[WarKirby]

double post

 

[WarKirby]

Of course, if ur revamping Auric you may want to revamp the godslayer too ... which means keeping avatar promo as Auric only

Why so?

I don't see a problem with the Godslayer being effective against the avatar of wrath or meshabber. It's hard enough to get as is, so it'd be nice to have it as more than a one-trick-pony.

I'm certainly not planning on boosting it any. If anything, I may weaken it. Even at Auric's new 75 strength, the 1000% bonus it gives would still allow an iron weapons champion to dispatch him easily. In fact, evel less than that is required, because it makes you immune to his 30 cold str too. I think it perhaps ought to require that it's at least wielded by someone more worthy.


At present, a unit with the godslayer requires only 4.09 combat strength to stand at 50/50 odds with Auric. That's achievable by a hunter with Combat I, or a bronze weapon warrior. I know it's a powerful sword, but.....

 

[Tasunke]

Meh, I see the godslayer as only slaying a god ... and the developers dont seem to mind it being near infallable in execution. I kinda like almost any unit being able to kill Auric with the godslayer ... I dont know if that would work in multiplayer ... although im sure you would have somewhat of an army to kill the godslayer without Aurics help. I think the Godslayer should either be destroyed upon Illian possesion, or turned into pieces of Godslayer (like Barnaxus). Maybe then godslayer is always upon capture turned into pieces of Godslayer, and requires forge and not Illians to cast, with the unit with the pieces of course.

I personally prefer it non castable by Illians AND doviello, but maybe ive been playing the rp games too much

 

[WarKirby]

Meh, I see the godslayer as only slaying a god ... and the developers dont seem to mind it being near infallable in execution. I kinda like almost any unit being able to kill Auric with the godslayer ... I dont know if that would work in multiplayer ... although im sure you would have somewhat of an army to kill the godslayer without Aurics help. I think the Godslayer should either be destroyed upon Illian possesion, or turned into pieces of Godslayer (like Barnaxus). Maybe then godslayer is always upon capture turned into pieces of Godslayer, and requires forge and not Illians to cast, with the unit with the pieces of course.

I personally prefer it non castable by Illians AND doviello, but maybe ive been playing the rp games too much

One thing that's always made me think, is that little tooltip during loading:

"Meshabber of Dis and The Mythril Golem are avatars. It's possible to kill them, but very difficult"

Perhaps I'm just not a fan of underused mechanics. Why the avatar of wrath deserves it, is fairly clear even in his name.

Killing Auric Ascended without the godslayer is going to be darn near impossible once I'm done. He has 4 first strikes, 75 str, cannibalize and blitz. Which should make him utterly undefeatable, or at least not wihtout a lot of luck.

I'd like it to be possible to kill him with the godslayer, but not Too easy. I'm thinking of reducing the str bonus it gives to +500%, and/or adding a level prereq. That's still extremely powerful, and any competant unit would still tear him to shreds, but it'd hopefully avoid the warrior vs tank analogy. It doesn't have quite the same epic feel to slay a god with one of your pithy little warriors, as it does by a mighty hero. Linking it to the hero promotion isn't a good idea though, since the AI has problems keeping those alive.

But with +500% strength, you'd need at least 7.5 base combat strength.
Hmm, that still seems too little... T4 units like paladins have about 12 base strength don't they?

 

[Tasunke]

yes, but you will be rare to find a tier 3 with a base strength beyond 6 unless its heroic except for ogres ... and I forget if weapons counts as base strength ... if your going for only tier 4 units, maybe you could make a call of >strength 10 or hero promo ... just so you dont leave out any heroes.

(I think Druids might be 10, although if base does NOT count for metal weaps, then I would prefer 9 to be the lowest godweilding under your philosophy)

 

[WarKirby]

AUGH

Avatar is a promotion, I forgot that.

I can't make any changes to godslayer at all ;-;

 

[Tasunke]

You could add the Avatar promo to Messhaber and Wrath ... thatd make things REALLY loopy

And here I was thinking u knew it was a promo. Actually when I first saw "avatar" as a promo, I figured the others like "avatar of wrath" for instance, was actually a misnomer or a common name.

Personally I checked the pedia to see if the Messhaber had gained the Avatar promo after I first saw the sword

 

[Opera]

I don't know if you know but... in CvSpellInterface.py, there is something that forces Auric to die if he fights someone who wields the Godslayer. He may won, if his opponent has the Godslayer, he will die.

def postCombatAuricAscendedLost(pCaster, pOpponent):
	iPlayer = pCaster.getOwner()
	pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(iPlayer)
	for iTrait in range(gc.getNumTraitInfos()):
		if pPlayer.hasTrait(iTrait):
			CyMessageControl().sendApplyEvent(5013, EventContextTypes.EVENTCONTEXT_ALL, (iPlayer,iTrait,False))
	if pOpponent.isHasPromotion(gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_GODSLAYER')):
		pOppPlayer = gc.getPlayer(pOpponent.getOwner())
		if pOppPlayer.isHuman():
			t = "TROPHY_FEAT_GODSLAYER"
			if not CyGame().isHasTrophy(t):
				CyGame().changeTrophyValue(t, 1)

def postCombatAuricAscendedWon(pCaster, pOpponent):
	if pOpponent.isHasPromotion(gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_GODSLAYER')):
		iPlayer = pCaster.getOwner()
		pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(iPlayer)
		for iTrait in range(gc.getNumTraitInfos()):
			if pPlayer.hasTrait(iTrait):
				CyMessageControl().sendApplyEvent(5013, EventContextTypes.EVENTCONTEXT_ALL, (iPlayer,iTrait,False))
		pCaster.kill(True, pOpponent.getOwner())
		pOppPlayer = gc.getPlayer(pOpponent.getOwner())
		if pOppPlayer.isHuman():
			t = "TROPHY_FEAT_GODSLAYER"
			if not CyGame().isHasTrophy(t):
				CyGame().changeTrophyValue(t, 1)

So, changing the Godslayer would not have any effect unless you change those too. But as you had to look at the XML of Auric Ascended, you certainly have seen those PyPostCombatLost and PyPostCombatWon calls, haven't you?

 

[WarKirby]

yes, I saw them. never thought to see what they did though...

I could have easily deleted those tags actually, so that wouldn't have been an issue.. but nevertheless, the point is moot, because I can't edit a promotion that references another promotion

 

[Opera]

You can't, even if you include both promotions?

I don't remember exactly but I did have a lot of issues due to this. Really annoying. It would have been so nice to do everything with modules, both python and xml. You may want to do a modular and try a non-modular one after. I get it why you want it to be modular but you may do even more interesting changes if not modular.

Anyway, I'm just not friend with modules anymore. They seem cool but are in fact treacherous. I suppose some Svartalfar sneaked in to modify this before BtS got out... Meh.

 

[WarKirby]

You can't, even if you include both promotions?

I haven't tried including both promotions, but from what xienwolf told me, that probably won't work. Worth a shot though, I guess.

The main reason I want to use modules, is the lack of having to maintain things. For the most part, I can just copy and paste my module folder into each new patch, and that's it. No messing with winmerge and trying to merge various different files, then putting out new versions for every release.

Aside from modules, the only other alternative is doing things that the team likes enough to incorporate into FF, so no maintenance is required.

 

[Valkrionn]

From what I can tell, it's when one promotion requires another that causes problems. What you described doesn't sound like it will cause problems.

 

[Opera]

Anyway, you may want to just try adding the PROMOTION_GODSLAYER, modifying it. If it's not working, add in the PROMOTION_AVATAR and see if it works. If not... well, too bad

A word about your mod, since I don't think I've said anything yet... I like it. I play both Orbis and FF and I noticed that some "powerful units" aren't that powerful given some time. One good example is the Spartatoi from Orbis, 13~14 strength... add in +3 from mithril (not +4) and it goes to 16~17; with a bit of training and combat V, you can surpass Acheron. Too bad the collateral damages aren't working the way it would have helped you. I could easily imagine Auric destroying stacks of unit with one blink.

 

[Valkrionn]

I like it too.... I'd like to include it in FFPlus when you're done if you wouldn't mind.

 

[Opera]

WarKirby, is your changelog updated? I would like it to mention the Auric changes. I could easily read through the entire thread but it would be very handy to have this in your first post. Have you considered making change to the Leviathan?

I'm looking forward to try it

 

[WarKirby]

From what I can tell, it's when one promotion requires another that causes problems. What you described doesn't sound like it will cause problems.

Godslayer has a 1000 modifier against PROMOTION_AVATAR, ergo it references something in the same file. Which makes any changes to it via module impossible, as far as I'm aware.


I've updated the changelog now with better info. I've not made any changes to leviathan except adding Monstrous Creature to it. It's already more powerful than any naval unit, so I'm not sure if it needs anything.

 

[Tasunke]

Perhaps allow the Leviathan to attack land units on the coast

 

[The NeverTide]

Its really too bad that you can't modularize the Godslayer revamps, it would have fit very nicely with the whole mod. I don't necessarily think the modifier should be altered, granted +1000 is just a [sarcasm]little[/sarcasm] ridiculous. Honestly I would just put a level cap on it. Must be at least level 10 -15 to wield the awesome power within the sword, otherwise the sheer force of it prevents you from closing your hand around the hilt. Very much like the ring of carcer.

And I see the Godslayer being able to slay more than just gods. Seeing as how it was forged by the magic of the compact (I think?) it was put into play to ensure the gods stayed out of Erebus. I would always imagine this included godly things like dragons (seeing as how they are the destructive weapons of the gods), avatars (representations of the gods or their principles), and even angels and demons. Of course, that would make this single piece of equipment extremely overpowered, but I think that if anything should be overpowered, something named Godslayer qualifies.

And I think Leviathan is fine with just the MC promo, like you said he's already an amazingly powerful naval unit.
And sorry for ranting above when it may not matter anyway. x_x

 

[PPQ_Purple]

That would be interesting.
What I would also like to see is dragons and several other monsters geting the Hero promotion.
I meen, they are ancient unique super units. They deserve to be called heroes.

 

[Kelborn]

Precisely what is Meshabber? I understand the Avatar of Wrath is Aeron's Archangel, and though I am not sure how what he does specifically breaks the Compact, he seems much more likely to be affected than a mundane demon, however hulking.