Thorgalaeg

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I thought this was a news thread, not one to discuss the rubbish and the delirious vomited by red_goat, Comrade Surrender and similars.

This night three Russian refineries/ oil depots were attacked and are burning.
 
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Gedemon

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If it had stayed as a civil war between Slavs, they wouldn't be sitting in the dark, with their kids falling more and behind those in other countries.

They would be sitting in the dark, in a basement, under the "care" of the occupiers.


In Russia, Victory Day is a highly militarized holiday that seeks to demonstrate Russian military power. Against the backdrop of Russia's full-scale war in Ukraine, the historical memory of World War II has also been weaponized by Russia as part of its attempt to frame the invasion of Ukraine as a continuation of Russia's struggle against the West.

Zelensky also drew parallels to World War II in comments marking the first celebration of the holiday.

"Russia has brought pages from World War II textbooks back into the global media spotlight, demonstrating that Nazism has resurfaced with each new crime," he wrote on Telegram.

"And, as in 1945, only a united free world—united in the Anti-(Russian President Vladimir) Putin Coalition—can stop the Moscow Nazis through action rather than words."

In reference to the common refrain about the commitment to prevent a repetition of the Holocaust and other crimes committed by Nazi Germany, Ukraine's Foreign Ministry wrote that "'never again' has become 'again' since Russia unleashed the war against Ukraine."

Around 6 to 7 million Ukrainians were killed during World War II, including about 1.5 million Ukrainian Jews. As a percentage of the population, Ukraine suffered greater losses in the war than Russia.


“They break into your house. They come to kill, burn, execute. They don't spare anyone – the elderly, women, children… They are beasts…”

These are the memories of the Nazi occupation survivors.

And these are the memories of the Russian occupation survivors. The same horrors, the crimes of the same monsters.

and before one complains about the sources


New evidence strengthens the Commission’s previous findings that torture against civilians by Russian authorities in Ukraine and in the Russian Federation has been widespread and systematic.
 

Dhoomstriker

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America is investing in Ukrainian failure​

The reality is that this war could have been averted with sober and mature diplomacy by the United States.
What if "the reality" is that there was no desire to avert the war? We could ask ourselves, which party has been the real victor in this war?
NATO gained membership through fearmongering.
Finland in April 2023: https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_213448.htm
Sweden in March 2024: https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_223446.htm
March 2024: Sweden and Finland join Nato's biggest military exercise in decades: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68535762


Here is some older news, but since so many news sites appear to have reported part of the January 2018 drone attacks story and then dropped further reports on the story, I think that it can be interesting to read two of the follow-up articles that came after the initial flurry of news reports.

At the start of January 2018, Russian bases were attacked by GPS-controlled drone swarms, without anyone laying claim for the attacks, and it is apparently quite rare for no one to lay claim. Multiple news stories report that Russia first blamed the US, and when the US denied blame, Russia blamed Turkey, all in early January. A news story that many may have missed was that Russia later absolved Turkey of any blame. Russia also finally makes the claim that the attack was sophisticated, thereby implying a possible return to Putin at least believing that the US was responsible:
https://secondnexus.com/alina-habba-trump-stormy-credible
Jan. 31, 2018
----------
The Kremlin now claims to know who attacked two Syrian locations and that the drones used were, in fact, far more sophisticated than countless photos and news reports would have you believe.

To date, the attacks have gone unclaimed, despite Putin’s initial assertion that Turkey played a hand in the attack. The Kremlin now claims to know who attacked both locations and that the drones were, in fact, far more sophisticated than countless photos and news reports would have you believe.
----------

At a date slightly after most of the news stories came out, the following investigative report tried to shed some light onto some of the related claimed items:
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2018/01/12/the_poor_mans_airforce/
January 12, 2018
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The Russian MoD claim that the drones were navigating using GPS is consistent with what appears to be a GPS antenna identified in the wreckage seen at Homs. The lack of evidence of any cameras also tangentially supports this claim – without a camera or line of sight, an operator would find it difficult to pilot this drone, especially at ranges in the tens of kilometres. This suggests a level of automation in what initially appears to be a rather rag-tag set of drones.

it seems likely that these drones were regarded as disposable, and were never intended to return to their point of origin.

The lack of cameras on the drones suggest that they are likely pre-loaded with a flight plan and then flown autonomously to their target, where they dropped their payload en mass on a given GPS coordinate.

Curiously for such an audacious attack against a high-profile target, no group has yet claimed responsibility for any of these strikes. Considering the numbers of drones involved in these raids and the high profile of the target set, it seems likely there was significant planning involved in these strikes. The fact that no group has claimed them is striking.

Although there is no direct evidence that these drones were involved in the attack on New Year’s Eve, circumstances and context suggests it should be considered as a possibility.

The discovery of two of these drones on January 1 near the airbase suggests... that a drone attack caused the damage and killed the two Russian soldiers.

The Russian MoD claim that whoever launched these drones required nation-state support is dubious. The suggestion that a United States Poseidon aircraft is somehow related to these drones is even more so.

Although I.S. reportedly sometimes operated more than a single drone at a time, they did not appear to have ever used a massed attack on this kind of scale using drones flying with a measure of autonomy. This indicates a strategic grasp of the use of drones, as well as a high level of planning. The lack of any kind of claim, or even rumours from the rebels, indicates that whoever is producing these drone and launching these attacks has a high level of discipline and an understanding of operational and personal security.
----------

Regardless of who was ultimately responsible, if Putin believed that a supposed ally in the conflict in Syria (the US) was responsible, it could be seen as one factor in a rationalization to start the current war in Ukraine, in a retaliatory act of frustration.

Ignoring the significant loss of life, the political gains for the US by way of the additional NATO countries, the smudging of Russia's reputation, and the exhaustion of Russian military supplies are enough for certain US organizations to perhaps at least wish that they had been clever enough to have been behind the January 2018 (and possibly December 2017) sophisticated drone attacks.
 
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saamohod

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NATO gained membership through fearmongering.
No one ever doubted that, but fearmongering is Russia's modus operandi. Has always been. Had Russia been a normal peaceful country, NATO would not just have ceased to exist by now. It would've never been created in the first place.

If you rely on archived "news" websites of extremely questionable quality, you already lost whatever argument you were trying to make.
 

Snowygerry

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Wel it is now absolutely certain that Russia is prepared to invade neighboring countries and destroy them city block by city block to get their way, that’s in addition to deportations, torture, kidnapping, “re-education”, gas attacks etc.

That can no longer be realistically be called “fearmongering” it is established fact.

It is under such conditions normal that other nations bordering would draw their conclusions join NATO as soon as possible.
 

red_elk

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What if "the reality" is that there was no desire to avert the war? We could ask ourselves, which party has been the real victor in this war?
From the West's perspective, the desire to avert or continue war depends on which strategy is perceived as advantageous.
The initial peace talks in March-April 2022 started when Western analysts predicted Ukraine is going to lose the war quickly.
As soon as they got impression that with proper military support Ukraine can defeat Russia, peace talks were shut down immediately.

The West's (mostly, US) goal is weakening geopolitical adversary through proxy war, without direct participation, using Ukrainians as cannon fodder.
With "fighting for freedom" rhetoric, same as it was during Soviet war in Afghanistan.
To some extent, also similar to Vietnam war, with the exception that for Vietnam it was real fight for freedom and independence.
The relations between Russia and US were deteriorating from roughly 2003-2004.
These incidents in Syria might contribute to it, but I believe they were just part of much larger chain of events.
 

Dhoomstriker

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If you rely on archived "news" websites of extremely questionable quality, you already lost whatever argument you were trying to make.
Off topic: An archive website can better protect people from trackers. Using an archive does not mean that links are invalid.
I have edited in the original links and you can go back to enjoying your third-party trackers. If you think that any of my links are of questionable quality, then perhaps you could have instead appreciated having being spared their trackers.
Wel it is now absolutely certain that Russia is prepared to invade neighboring countries
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but since we are supposed to be quoting news in this thread, do you have a news story or other evidence which reports that Putin has had any concrete plans to invade Finland, either as a part of the current conflict or sometime after the current conflict is over?
 

Snowygerry

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Well the news is that the Russian army is invading Ukraine atm, we know from history they have invaded at one time or other every one of their neighbors, in addition to others, like Syria and Afghanistan etc.

Why it seems only logical they would also invade Finland again, given half a chance.
 

saamohod

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do you have a news story or other evidence which reports that Putin has had any concrete plans to invade Finland
What evidence was there that Putin had concrete plans to invade and annex Ukraine before he invaded and annexed?

1715259465980.png


1715259531138.png


1715259747975.jpeg


1715259491244.png
 

Gorbles

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You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but since we are supposed to be quoting news in this thread, do you have a news story or other evidence which reports that Putin has had any concrete plans to invade Finland, either as a part of the current conflict or sometime after the current conflict is over?
I think it's reasonable; rational even, for individuals to be worried about a country the size and strength of Russia imposing itself on other nations. This discourse happened before the current (illegal) invasion of Ukraine, you weren't active in this subforum at the time I don't think, but it was very much "they'll never do it" / "where's your proof" / etc.

Does this mean Russia will? Of course not. But it's no longer an unsubstantiated fear. Such fear should be taken in good faith, in my opinion, instead of being dismissed as some kind of justification for "Western aggression" or whatever your actual issue is here.

Speaking for myself, it's perfectly possible to be critical of the US and other Western powers and at the same time critical (and distrustful, even) of Russia and its stated goals.
 

saamohod

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but it was very much "they'll never do it" / "where's your proof" / etc.
The discourse has since predictably evolved into "it's the West/USA fault" / "Ukrainians deserved it" / "So what you're gonna do about it lol?".
 

Gedemon

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Regardless of who was ultimately responsible, if Putin believed that a supposed ally in the conflict in Syria (the US) was responsible, it could be seen as one factor in a rationalization to start the current war in Ukraine, in a retaliatory act of frustration.

Ignoring the significant loss of life, the political gains for the US by way of the additional NATO countries, the smudging of Russia's reputation, and the exhaustion of Russian military supplies are enough for certain US organizations to perhaps at least wish that they had been clever enough to have been behind the January 2018 (and possibly December 2017) sophisticated drone attacks.

A new variation of the "Russia has fallen for an US trap" opinion, and I could post news from the 90' to backup another about the source being the fall of the USSR, when USSR had fallen for an US trap, but that's not the scope of this topic, so I'd suggest you read the OP again in case you missed that part:

Remember, our focus is on current news related to the war. It is not on pre invasion events, whataboutism, or anyone's personal desire to widen the conversation to include pet peeves and personal interests. We will thread ban those who cannot abide with civility or posting guidelines

If you want to speculate about the origin of the war there is a thread for that

 

Gedemon

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An article saying the US should not fear the drone attacks on Russia's refineries, price should go down, not up...


In all, Ukraine has launched at least 20 strikes on Russian refineries since October. Ukrainian security officials have indicated that the attacks’ objectives are to cut off fuel supplies to the Russian military and slash the export revenues that the Kremlin uses to fund its war effort. By the end of March, Ukraine had destroyed around 14 percent of Russia’s oil-refining capacity and forced the Russian government to introduce a six-month ban on gasoline exports. One of the world’s largest oil producers is now importing petrol.

But the Biden administration has criticized the attacks. In February, Vice President Kamala Harris urged Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to refrain from targeting Russian oil refineries out of concern that the strikes would drive up global oil prices. Echoing that sentiment, Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin warned the Senate Armed Services Committee in mid-April that the “attacks could have a knock-on effect in terms of the global energy situation.” Instead of striking oil infrastructure, Austin told the committee, “Ukraine is better served in going after tactical and operational targets that can directly influence the current fight.”

Washington’s criticism is misplaced: attacks on oil refineries will not have the effect on global energy markets that U.S. officials fear. These strikes reduce Russia’s ability to turn its oil into usable products; they do not affect the volume of oil it can extract or export. In fact, with less domestic refining capacity, Russia will be forced to export more of its crude oil, not less, pushing global prices down rather than up. Indeed, Russian firms have already started selling more unrefined oil overseas. As long as they remain restricted to Russian refineries, the attacks are unlikely to raise the price of oil for Western consumers.

... and attacks are not stopping anyway.

 

Verbose

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Well the news is that the Russian army is invading Ukraine atm, we know from history they have invaded at one time or other every one of their neighbors, in addition to others, like Syria and Afghanistan etc.

Why it seems only logical they would also invade Finland again, given half a chance.
And the funny thing is, the Finns never suspended preparations for defending against such an attack – unlike everyone else in Europe, the Finns just kept on trucking with their full-bore invasion defense, Soviet Union or no Soviet Union.

The Finns figuratively always have a hand on the knife when interacting with anyone Russian, judging when the moment to stab said Russia is at hand. And the Russians have reciprocated this by generally liking and appreciating the Finns.

Europe should threaten Russia. There should be active plans, and active preparations, for how to bring down the Russian government by force if need be. Experience shows, that is when relations with Russia will be at their very best.
 
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Birdjaguar

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Off topic: An archive website can better protect people from trackers. Using an archive does not mean that links are invalid.
Moderator Action: Stick with current news and not pre Feb 2022 news please.
 

saamohod

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Pentagon Teams Up With SpaceX to Block Russia From Using Starlink​


Pentagon officials working with Elon Musk’s SpaceX have blunted the Russian military’s unauthorized use of Starlink internet terminals on the battlefield in its war with Ukraine, according to the Defense Department’s space policy chief.

The US has been “heavily involved in working with the government of Ukraine and SpaceX to counter Russian illicit use of Starlink terminals,” John Plumb, the outgoing assistant secretary for space policy, said in an interview.

“At this time we have successfully countered Russian use, but I am certain Russia will continue to try and find ways to exploit Starlink and other commercial communications systems,” he told Bloomberg News. Although “it will continue to be a problem, I think we’ve wrapped our heads around it and found good solutions with both Starlink and Ukraine.”

Plumb declined to elaborate on what tactics, techniques or procedures are being used to stem Russia’s use of the highly portable communications terminals that connect to SpaceX’s fleet of low-orbiting satellites. Ukrainian government officials had no immediate comment.

More at: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...by-pentagon-spacex-ukraine?srnd=technology-vp
 

Thorgalaeg

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Ukraine is creating a network of secret underground defense plants - El Mundo

Some of the factories are underground, some are "camouflaged" with decorations.

"Kyiv seeks to become a center of arms production for the entire West," the publication writes.
 

Thorgalaeg

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An analysis of the funny propaganda poster for the Russian victory day:

The message is that Russia always won, but the list of ostensible Russian victories on the poster tells a different story. 2/10

It's interesting that Russia here admits, as its Western friends sometimes deny, that Russia invaded Ukraine ten years ago. 3/10

But that invasion has been no victory. The previous item, 1941–1945, was a Soviet victory with US economic support as part of a coalition. 4/10

1812 was a victory of the Russian Empire over France as part of a coalition. 1609-1618 was the Time of Troubles (approximately) and the victory was keeping a Pole from the throne. 5/10

1239-1480 was the period when the new city of Moscow was a vassal of the Mongols/Tatars, the time of its political formation. 6/10

1242 marks the destruction of the medieval Kyivan state by Mongols. Russia did not exist then and no victory was won. 7/10

The poster ignores completely famous Russian and Soviet defeats, such as the Crimean War, the Russo-Japanese War, the First World War, the Polish-Soviet War, and the Afghan invasion. 8/10

Russia has of course won many wars, but generally against peoples now subjugated and incorporated into the Russian Federation. 9/10

Lessons for Victory Day: Russia distorts the past; Russia often loses wars; when Russia wins it is often thanks to international support; the current war started in 2014 and aims to destroy a people and add territory. 10/10

I would also add that the bomb launched by the su-27 in the poster hits the pentagon in the central courtyard making not important damage to the building. So even in their fantasies the Russians fail...
 

Gedemon

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still wondering if it's a fake or not.
 

saamohod

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still wondering if it's a fake or not.
What makes you think it could be fake? It's completely in line with the current Russian madness. It doesn't stand out as an oddity. I would suspect it to be fake if it was some sort of peaceful message.
Maybe our Russian resident posters could clarify the matter? Is if fake or real?
 
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