Some very good ideas here. I especially like the idea of a fast barbarian unit - I agree this could make things much hairier in the desert. Indeed I think I may need to pre-place some more barbarian camps in the desert, to give the human West African player a bit more of a challenge getting through it. Historically, of course, there would have been less danger from bandits but more from the landscape itself, so it evens out, as it were. As for the volcanoes, I did actually intend to do that, but evidently forgot. Doh!
The Desert and the Mountain - Empires of Africa
- Thread starter Plotinus
- Start date
LouLong
In love with Rei Ayanami
Have you tried giving desert a "disease" factor to represent the danger from the landscape ?
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
Disease affects only fortified units.
EDaddy
Warlord
Plotinus, I must say that your scenario and your intepertation of the Mali and the other African cultures is better than Sid's. First the city placement. Playing the Mali in Civ4 after playing your scenario, I noticed some city names that are from other African cultures in your game. The order goes like this.
Timbuktu OK
Djenne OK
Kumbi Saleh (Ghana capital)
Gao (I don't remember if it was Ghana or Songhai...)
Walata (This is the odd one -- this is the capital of the Ouddai!)
Niani OK
Adwaghost (Ghana/Songhai -- don't remember -- no I think this is a Mali city too)
Also, the unique unit for the Mali appears in the ancient era, but since the Mail is a 14th cenury figure, it should have its unique unit in the medieval age. No offense from Sid, but I like your Mali unique unit better although I never got to use it since I win on Mail too early...
Mali in your scenario is much, much better than the Civ 4 Mali. In your scenario, you get a feel for the Mali culture more so than in Civ4.
Timbuktu OK
Djenne OK
Kumbi Saleh (Ghana capital)
Gao (I don't remember if it was Ghana or Songhai...)
Walata (This is the odd one -- this is the capital of the Ouddai!)
Niani OK
Adwaghost (Ghana/Songhai -- don't remember -- no I think this is a Mali city too)
Also, the unique unit for the Mali appears in the ancient era, but since the Mail is a 14th cenury figure, it should have its unique unit in the medieval age. No offense from Sid, but I like your Mali unique unit better although I never got to use it since I win on Mail too early...
Mali in your scenario is much, much better than the Civ 4 Mali. In your scenario, you get a feel for the Mali culture more so than in Civ4.
Thanks! Of course I don't have Civ IV yet so I can't comment on how they implemented this civ - although I did notice that they had Timbuktu as the capital, which is like making New York the capital of the US. It does make sort of sense to give them major cities of neighbouring civs, and especially Gao, which although founded by the Songhai was incorporated into the Mali empire and only later gained independence once again. I don't know if Kumbi Saleh and Audaghost were important cities during the period of Mali's dominance, but I suspect not, because one of the key reasons why Ghana faltered and Mali took over was that Mali had better city placement (on the river and next to the desert, rather than *in* the desert!). Walata sounds completely wrong!
You're right that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to give them an ancient UU, although I suppose a case could be made for claiming that although chronologically medieval, Mali at this time was no more advanced than an ancient civ. Although I bet it wouldn't be a very good case.
Still, I suppose that a civ is always going to be more accurately represented in a scenario than in epic-style. Plus, of course, we should probably be grateful that Firaxis saw fit to include a major post-antiquity African empire at all!
You're right that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to give them an ancient UU, although I suppose a case could be made for claiming that although chronologically medieval, Mali at this time was no more advanced than an ancient civ. Although I bet it wouldn't be a very good case.
Still, I suppose that a civ is always going to be more accurately represented in a scenario than in epic-style. Plus, of course, we should probably be grateful that Firaxis saw fit to include a major post-antiquity African empire at all!
EDaddy
Warlord
But still, they could of done better than what they did. Walata?!?! When I noticed that was a city name (the second time i played Mali) I thought it was weird indeed. That city has nothing to do with the Mali -- that's a whole new African culture altogether!!!
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
Well, it took them three sequels to fix the atrocious city list for Germany, so I suppose we'll see a decent one for Mali in Civilization VII or so. 
No, by then Firaxis will have taken note of all the comments along the lines of "Mali? WTF is that?" and replaced them with Zulus once more, because they're more in line with what most of their customers expect Africans to be like...
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
Unfortunately, you may very well be right ... 
On a quite different tune, I note that the name of the West Africans' horsemen, Farasiya, is notably similar to furusiya, the Mameluke's art of war. Is there a connection?
On a quite different tune, I note that the name of the West Africans' horsemen, Farasiya, is notably similar to furusiya, the Mameluke's art of war. Is there a connection?
Sword_Of_Geddon
Arbiter of the Sword
Plotinus can I ask you a question?
TLC: I think that that may be because the Mali probably assimilated a few arabic words into their own language, due to Islam.
TLC: I think that that may be because the Mali probably assimilated a few arabic words into their own language, due to Islam.
Sword_Of_Geddon
Arbiter of the Sword
I've heard that the Mali's are related somehow to the ancient egyptians believe it or not
Is Southern African native music(zulu or Kenya for example) the same as North African(Mali, Ethiopian etc.) .
Is Southern African native music(zulu or Kenya for example) the same as North African(Mali, Ethiopian etc.) .
I don't know much about it. But I can't believe that the Malians have got much to do with the ancient Egyptians. They're just not from the same part of the world. As for music, I don't know anything about southern or eastern African music, but I do know that Malian music is quite distinctive today. Some of it is in the soundtrack to the scenario. Ali Farka Touré is probably the most famous representative. Toumani Diabate is also very good - he made a great album with Taj Mahal a few years ago.
Sword_Of_Geddon
Arbiter of the Sword
Well, when i think of African music I think of the beautiful vocals like in Peter Gabriel's music or that song I sent you that my old teacher made. I don't think Ethiopian or Mali music is the same as that though, I could be wrong.
So you finally released the scenario! I've got to try it! 
One thing, though. Is the first gameplay pic of Ethiopia you posted the original locations of the cities? If so, Roha and Massawa (properly Mitsiwa - Massawa' with an "ayin" at the end is the Arabic name) are completley incorrect. Mitsiwa is on the coast a hundred miles north of Adulis, while Roha is on the other side of Lake Tana in the center of the land between Tana and the eastern lowlands. Axum is also misplaced. It's not on the edge of the highlands, but in the middle. It should be one tile west and one tile northwest.
Also, the Ethiopian higlands should extend a little bit farther north into Eritrea.
One thing, though. Is the first gameplay pic of Ethiopia you posted the original locations of the cities? If so, Roha and Massawa (properly Mitsiwa - Massawa' with an "ayin" at the end is the Arabic name) are completley incorrect. Mitsiwa is on the coast a hundred miles north of Adulis, while Roha is on the other side of Lake Tana in the center of the land between Tana and the eastern lowlands. Axum is also misplaced. It's not on the edge of the highlands, but in the middle. It should be one tile west and one tile northwest.
Also, the Ethiopian higlands should extend a little bit farther north into Eritrea.
Hope you like it, Yom.
Fear not - Roha and Massawa aren't pre-placed at the start. Those are just the locations where they happened to be built in that game. I know that Axum isn't exactly right, but as I mentioned I did tweak the geography of the Horn of Africa somewhat for gameplay purposes. Hopefully it won't be too hideous, even for an Ethiopian player...
By the way, I shall probably be posting an updated version at some point in the fairly near future, with slightly tweaked gameplay (in particular, making Ethiopia a bit easier and the Falasha a bit harder). Plus, of course, the MP version.
Fear not - Roha and Massawa aren't pre-placed at the start. Those are just the locations where they happened to be built in that game. I know that Axum isn't exactly right, but as I mentioned I did tweak the geography of the Horn of Africa somewhat for gameplay purposes. Hopefully it won't be too hideous, even for an Ethiopian player...
By the way, I shall probably be posting an updated version at some point in the fairly near future, with slightly tweaked gameplay (in particular, making Ethiopia a bit easier and the Falasha a bit harder). Plus, of course, the MP version.
Mentat
Illienthir Master
First of all thanks for that great scenario Plotinius.
I have encountered a bug, though I am not sure what causes it, since the errormessage is unclear. The game crashes after 1507 for me.
It quits with a load errormessage:
Missing entry in "scenarios/Desert/text/PediaIcons.txt": ANIMNAME_
I tried to check the PediaIcons.txt for a unfinished ANIMNAME_, but didn't find any. I really wish I'd know what CIV expects, since it could be repaired then, but it remains a mystery to me at this point. If any of you had the same experience, or has a solution, I would be grateful.
Edit:
OK, have to take this one back, it was my very own fault. I added some units, techs and so on, to the make the game also playable as Yemen. During this process, I added "african slaves", that are autoproduced by the cityimprovement "Arabian Slave Quaters"(requiring tribes as ressource). In my stupidity I forgot to add the PRTO_Worker for this unit. Now, in 1507 the first unit would have been autoproduced, ....
I have encountered a bug, though I am not sure what causes it, since the errormessage is unclear. The game crashes after 1507 for me.
It quits with a load errormessage:
Missing entry in "scenarios/Desert/text/PediaIcons.txt": ANIMNAME_
I tried to check the PediaIcons.txt for a unfinished ANIMNAME_, but didn't find any. I really wish I'd know what CIV expects, since it could be repaired then, but it remains a mystery to me at this point. If any of you had the same experience, or has a solution, I would be grateful.
Edit:
OK, have to take this one back, it was my very own fault. I added some units, techs and so on, to the make the game also playable as Yemen. During this process, I added "african slaves", that are autoproduced by the cityimprovement "Arabian Slave Quaters"(requiring tribes as ressource). In my stupidity I forgot to add the PRTO_Worker for this unit. Now, in 1507 the first unit would have been autoproduced, ....
EDaddy
Warlord
I can't wait for the new version, so I can see how Ethiopia really plays!!! Also, Plotinus don't forget to fix the Divine Monarchy bug for Central African nations -- the number of free units I get is 2 instead of 8.
Don't worry, that one's fixed!
The new version is simmering away, but it will take a little while to appear: I want to work out how to make some African advisors to add to the atmos. Also, I've made two units that will help for the upgrade, but there will probably be more that I'd like to tackle, and that takes time! Hopefully it will be worth it to have a decent upgrade to the scenario. Any other ideas gratefully received, of course.
The new version is simmering away, but it will take a little while to appear: I want to work out how to make some African advisors to add to the atmos. Also, I've made two units that will help for the upgrade, but there will probably be more that I'd like to tackle, and that takes time! Hopefully it will be worth it to have a decent upgrade to the scenario. Any other ideas gratefully received, of course.
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