7ronin
海軍少佐
Other than a new paint job, I hope you don't do too much tinkering under the hood (or bonnet). This scenario is already close to perfect!
The Desert and the Mountain - Empires of Africa
- Thread starter Plotinus
- Start date
Thanks, 7ronin. No, I'm not planning on making any sweeping changes. Well, I was sort of thinking of adding the Funj sultans, and perhaps Dahomey, and then adding a new culture group and making them and Benin and Beja all playable, and then... but perhaps it's not a good idea.
Mentat
Illienthir Master
@Plotinus:
If your are reworking some parts of the scenario, you might or might not consider giving the ports the ability to produce veteran units. Since as it is now, the ships that you meant to upgrade, can not do so. (e.g. Dhow -> Corsair).
The Arabian Bazaar gives a standard 50% tax increase instead of letting cities grow beyond size 6. I think its meant(good) that way, but uses the same Civ-Pedia entry.
I also found the Urukhai graphic for the zealot somewhat displaced in a else very comprehensive and authentic scenario. Thats just my opinion though, and I can't even suggest any alternative yet.
If you are interested in how I have tweaked the scenario to make it playable as Yemen, I would be happy to send you the Biq. Though, I do have the feeling, that you are not planning to make such changes. In fact there is even no need to do so.
I have also added one defensive unit for each, the Falasha and the Ethiopians. During my first three tests for the Yemen Civ, I always had a quite long Civil war in Abbessinia as result, the victor still beeing mighty enough to challenge the others.
If your are reworking some parts of the scenario, you might or might not consider giving the ports the ability to produce veteran units. Since as it is now, the ships that you meant to upgrade, can not do so. (e.g. Dhow -> Corsair).
The Arabian Bazaar gives a standard 50% tax increase instead of letting cities grow beyond size 6. I think its meant(good) that way, but uses the same Civ-Pedia entry.
I also found the Urukhai graphic for the zealot somewhat displaced in a else very comprehensive and authentic scenario. Thats just my opinion though, and I can't even suggest any alternative yet.
If you are interested in how I have tweaked the scenario to make it playable as Yemen, I would be happy to send you the Biq. Though, I do have the feeling, that you are not planning to make such changes. In fact there is even no need to do so.
I have also added one defensive unit for each, the Falasha and the Ethiopians. During my first three tests for the Yemen Civ, I always had a quite long Civil war in Abbessinia as result, the victor still beeing mighty enough to challenge the others.
That sounds interesting, Mentat. The main thing stopping me making Yemen (or other civs) playable is that I'd need to do a new tech tree for them, which would be a Hassle with a capital H. I agree that a replacement Zealot graphic would be a good thing, so I might see what my team of scribbling monks can come up with on that front.
I'd be interested to see your biq. In particular, seeing where another defensive unit for Ethiopia and Falasha can be useful would be great. It hadn't occurred to me that this could be an effective way of dragging out their war.
I'd be interested to see your biq. In particular, seeing where another defensive unit for Ethiopia and Falasha can be useful would be great. It hadn't occurred to me that this could be an effective way of dragging out their war.
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
I do believe I suggested giving Ethiopia an extra, immobile defender. 
Mentat
Illienthir Master
@TLC: Aye, and it was a very good idea. Though I just added the standard defenders. But your idea made me think about checking the AI defensive box for some the Ethiopian defenders, since they can and are used for defense and attack by the AI. So much said, I have not checked the box yet, and the result is already promising. So immobile units might not even be necessary. Imho, they tend to be either too weak or too powerful. But they are for sure the best solution if the other thing doesn't work out nicely.
@Plotinus: I will gladly send you the biq, or post it here. Just today I am pretty busy, so you might get it tomorrow. The techtree for the arabians is still crude, and has neither nice pics nor special names yet. It fits to the game for now, but has to be more enhanced, though I will galdly help with that. I also gave the Yemenites the same Citystyle as used for the Falusha and Ethiopians. There were quite a number of cultural bonds between southern Arabia and Abbessinia. This was of course reflected in the architecture.
The good/interresting thing when playing Yemen, is that you have quite some influence on the Civil War, since the incense supply is highly important for both sides. Its also quite a challenge for the Yemenites, if they ever dare to challenge the Ayyubids, by sacking Macca(Mekka) and Madina(Medina). To make it challenging enough I removed the two weird Vulcanos from the Sinai, and replaced them with desert. So the Ayyubids can bring in some Mamluks/Camelriders if things go in Macca. This has also some historical background, since many caliphates/dynasties were overthrown in the area of the two holy cities (though mainly before 1000 AD).
So I have to quit for now and continue to work, ...
@Plotinus: I will gladly send you the biq, or post it here. Just today I am pretty busy, so you might get it tomorrow. The techtree for the arabians is still crude, and has neither nice pics nor special names yet. It fits to the game for now, but has to be more enhanced, though I will galdly help with that. I also gave the Yemenites the same Citystyle as used for the Falusha and Ethiopians. There were quite a number of cultural bonds between southern Arabia and Abbessinia. This was of course reflected in the architecture.
The good/interresting thing when playing Yemen, is that you have quite some influence on the Civil War, since the incense supply is highly important for both sides. Its also quite a challenge for the Yemenites, if they ever dare to challenge the Ayyubids, by sacking Macca(Mekka) and Madina(Medina). To make it challenging enough I removed the two weird Vulcanos from the Sinai, and replaced them with desert. So the Ayyubids can bring in some Mamluks/Camelriders if things go in Macca. This has also some historical background, since many caliphates/dynasties were overthrown in the area of the two holy cities (though mainly before 1000 AD).
So I have to quit for now and continue to work, ...
Mentat
Illienthir Master
Thats the Biq for the alternate desert scenario.
View attachment Desert_alternate.zip
Changes made:
1.) Made Yemenites available to play
2.) Changed Yemenite cities to the Ethiopian style
3.) Altered the Yemenite landscape somewhat
4.) Added some techs for the Arabians, allowing them to research slavery and their assassin heritage
5.) Added one defensive troop to the Falasha
6.) Added one defensive troop to the Ethiopians
7.) Changed ports to produce veteran nautic-units, thus being able to upgrade ships
8.) Added African slaves, an autoproduced workerunit by arabian slavequaters(building requires tribes)
9.) Added Arabian Assassin (the unit needs incense)
View attachment Desert_alternate.zip
Changes made:
1.) Made Yemenites available to play
2.) Changed Yemenite cities to the Ethiopian style
3.) Altered the Yemenite landscape somewhat
4.) Added some techs for the Arabians, allowing them to research slavery and their assassin heritage
5.) Added one defensive troop to the Falasha
6.) Added one defensive troop to the Ethiopians
7.) Changed ports to produce veteran nautic-units, thus being able to upgrade ships
8.) Added African slaves, an autoproduced workerunit by arabian slavequaters(building requires tribes)
9.) Added Arabian Assassin (the unit needs incense)
Wow, the update is needed. I must say that it's practically impossible to play as Ethiopia right now!
Also, as a couple of Aesthetic notes, I noticed that Queen Yodit looks rather Southern Sudanese rather than Ethiopian and Ahmed Gragn is shown as Arab. While he is sometimes traditionally portrayed as an Arab in Ethiopian historiography, he was actually a native of the Horn of Africa, either a Somali or an Afar (Futuh al-Habasha, the chief work on the period doesn't directly address his ethnicity but that also probably means he wasn't an Arab).
Also, as a couple of Aesthetic notes, I noticed that Queen Yodit looks rather Southern Sudanese rather than Ethiopian and Ahmed Gragn is shown as Arab. While he is sometimes traditionally portrayed as an Arab in Ethiopian historiography, he was actually a native of the Horn of Africa, either a Somali or an Afar (Futuh al-Habasha, the chief work on the period doesn't directly address his ethnicity but that also probably means he wasn't an Arab).
It ain't impossible to play as Ethiopia... you just need to think about your tactics carefully! There are some good ideas scattered throughout this thread.
You're probably right about Yodit, although since no-one really knows who she was I think I can get away with making her look like anything, really. I didn't know about Gragn's ethnicity, although what you say sounds reasonable. It's hard to find any LHs that look more like what he would have looked like, though, I think.
Anyway, I haven't forgotten about the update. It will be happening, but I need to make a couple more units first and then do some testing. I have a great deal going on in real life so it won't be enormously soon, but it's certainly coming.
You're probably right about Yodit, although since no-one really knows who she was I think I can get away with making her look like anything, really. I didn't know about Gragn's ethnicity, although what you say sounds reasonable. It's hard to find any LHs that look more like what he would have looked like, though, I think.
Anyway, I haven't forgotten about the update. It will be happening, but I need to make a couple more units first and then do some testing. I have a great deal going on in real life so it won't be enormously soon, but it's certainly coming.
EDaddy
Warlord
Take your time, Plotinus. We will all be playing the Civ IV Warlords expansion soon anyways!
I tried again with Mali on Monarch and won pretty easily. Perhaps you should take away some of its resources or make the trade goods give fewer VPs (right now it's 1,500, meaning only 13 are needed to win). The Tuareg warrior (I never got around to making any, though) doesn't seem very helpful. The strength isn't worth the movement loss when you're rushing across the desert, so perhaps you could give it one more movement with 1 less attack or defense, or maybe treat all terrain as roads.
I've tried again with Ethiopia (this time on Monarch instead of Emperor, though I don't think it makes any difference) and it's much easier this time; I've already destroyed the Falasha (1033), and am on my way to hopefully taking Yifat (why Yifat instead of Ifat, by the way?). I think my last game I just had bad luck with the PRNG against the Falasha.
A couple notes, however. One, the histories tend to run off the page and are hard to read past that point. Anyway to fix it? Regarding accuracy, on the Ethiopia history, the kingdom of D`mt in the 8th c. BC was actually the first kingdom of Ethiopia, and the descent of Falashas (properly Beta Israel, as "Falasha" is pejorative, meaning "exiles") from ancient Israelite tribes is unlikely; they're probably more like Russian Old Believers. Also, I'm a bit uncomfortable with your use of the word "Hamitic." Perhaps its informative to someone completely ignorant of what the people in the region look like, but Hamitic is an outdated term that was formerly only used by racists.
On appearance again, the Beja (like the Adalians) look just like Ethiopians, not Arabs as you put in the game. Also, they can build a city named "Badi" which they should not be able. "Baḍiʿ" is the Arabic form of the Tigrinya name "Baṣiʿ" (Arabic ḍ and Ethiosemitic ṣ are descended from the same letter, cp. Ar. Haḍani, Ge'ez Haṣani), which is another name for Mitsiwa/Massawa (ts = ṣ
. On the same note, the city should probably be called "Mitsiwa" instead of Massawa, and Mitsiwa is actually north of Adulis, not south. (Maybe switch the two, and move each one tile NW?). Also, "Tugulet" should be spelled "Tegulet."
Don't take my comments above as criticism, though.
I love the scenario; I'm only trying to make it better. 
I haven't been able to get the Music to work, though...
I've tried again with Ethiopia (this time on Monarch instead of Emperor, though I don't think it makes any difference) and it's much easier this time; I've already destroyed the Falasha (1033), and am on my way to hopefully taking Yifat (why Yifat instead of Ifat, by the way?). I think my last game I just had bad luck with the PRNG against the Falasha.
A couple notes, however. One, the histories tend to run off the page and are hard to read past that point. Anyway to fix it? Regarding accuracy, on the Ethiopia history, the kingdom of D`mt in the 8th c. BC was actually the first kingdom of Ethiopia, and the descent of Falashas (properly Beta Israel, as "Falasha" is pejorative, meaning "exiles") from ancient Israelite tribes is unlikely; they're probably more like Russian Old Believers. Also, I'm a bit uncomfortable with your use of the word "Hamitic." Perhaps its informative to someone completely ignorant of what the people in the region look like, but Hamitic is an outdated term that was formerly only used by racists.
On appearance again, the Beja (like the Adalians) look just like Ethiopians, not Arabs as you put in the game. Also, they can build a city named "Badi" which they should not be able. "Baḍiʿ" is the Arabic form of the Tigrinya name "Baṣiʿ" (Arabic ḍ and Ethiosemitic ṣ are descended from the same letter, cp. Ar. Haḍani, Ge'ez Haṣani), which is another name for Mitsiwa/Massawa (ts = ṣ
. On the same note, the city should probably be called "Mitsiwa" instead of Massawa, and Mitsiwa is actually north of Adulis, not south. (Maybe switch the two, and move each one tile NW?). Also, "Tugulet" should be spelled "Tegulet."Don't take my comments above as criticism, though.
I love the scenario; I'm only trying to make it better. I haven't been able to get the Music to work, though...
OK, I'll try to make the changes. It's hard to get the pedia entries to fit the space available, because my computer seems to use a slightly smaller font than other people's. Also, I didn't know what the Beja look like when I made the scenario, although I've subsequently found out. Very annoying!
Plotinus said:
No sweat. You must have known a lot about African history to make the scenario in the first place.
I know I'll forget, but there were a couple more things I wanted to comment on that I forgot to mention. Ethiopia can build both Massawa and Mitsiwa (Massawa comes first), so maybe the city list should be renamed to just Mitsiwa, deleting the latter, and making the already settled one called "Mitsiwa" (to prevent confusion). Also, I noticed that the bottom mountains on the S. Border of Ethiopia are annoyingly settlable. You wouldn't imagine how many thousands of settler pairs tried to make it there (from every W African civ!). Is there anyway to fix this? Wrt Adal, I noticed that they have a Great Leader Zara Yakob (properly Zar`a Ya`iqob), just like Ethiopia. Is this a mistake? Zara Yakob is a Christian name and the name of a great Emperor who ruled from 1434-1468. I remember it was included in the civilopedia, though. Maybe you should replace it with the founder of the Walashma dynasty that ruled Ifat and then Adal (Ali ibn Wali Ashma according to Wikipedia, though I remember a different source having "Sabr ad-Din" in there as well, as if the number of ad-Din's isn't confusing enough!). I know I've forgotten something, so I'll respond later when I remember.
You're right, Zara Yakob certainly shouldn't be fighting for Adal. As for the southern mountains, this will be fixed in the update (this was actually one of the first changes I made). Thanks for the information about place names etc - it's hard to work these things out when there seem to be different romanisation systems for them, and it's surprising how hard it can be to find good lists of place names for medieval Ethiopia online. Or perhaps it's not so surprising. I could find out virtually *nothing* about medieval Beta Israel and had to resort to extremely musty books from the depths of the British Library, which didn't shed much light on them either. The pedia entries on that civ and its techs, units, etc contain pretty much all the information I could find from anywhere at all.
By the way, I'm sure the Tuareg Warrior is supposed to have the same movement as the unit it replaces - I agree that a loss of movement would probably outweigh a gain in strength. So I'll check that too.
So much to do and so little time to do it in! Thanks for your patience, everyone. It would have been updated a while ago but I want to complete the most needed units first and make it all look really good.
By the way, I'm sure the Tuareg Warrior is supposed to have the same movement as the unit it replaces - I agree that a loss of movement would probably outweigh a gain in strength. So I'll check that too.
So much to do and so little time to do it in! Thanks for your patience, everyone. It would have been updated a while ago but I want to complete the most needed units first and make it all look really good.
I still don't remember what it was that I forgot, but btw, using "Jimma" is an anachronism. Apparently it used to be called "Hirmata," but more importantly it didn't exist in the 16th century. Perhaps you should name the city "Innarya" after the medeival province-kingdom in the region (a lot of city names were interchangeable with districts/provinces and vice versa, hence the "7 cities" (i.e. districts) of Ifat - Adal, Gebela, Lebekela, Mora, Paguma, and Tiqo, which were actually districts/province).
Virote_Considon
The Great Dictator
It's pretty easy not to loose as Ethiopia if you concentrate on defeating the Falasha first, then buffing up your defenses- and lauching a huge assult- on Adal. All that being said for Regent level, though.
That's what I did on Monarch, too. Probably works for all levels. I think I just had a bad run with the PRNG against the Falasha the first time I tried (those runners and swordsmen wouldn't die before losing at least one attacker for each unit, and would always win when they were on the offense).
BTW, Plotinus: Is "Armahman" supposed to be "Amharaman?" I.e. Amhara man? If so, the unit should probably be renamed. For one, Amhara wasn't used as an ethnic group name (though it was used for the language and the name of a medieval province in Wello) until the last quarter of the 20th century, and it's still not very often used by those designated by outsiders as "Amhara." Secondly, the peasant fighters weren't only speakers of Amharic. Perhaps a better name would be "Balager" (from Ba`al Hager - master/husband of the country[side]), or maybe "Chiwa" ("Free man"), "Hara," ("free" or "soldier" in Ge'ez, sometimes said to be the etymology of Amhara - i.e. `am "people" + hara "free"), or maybe "Gebr" or one of its variants (from a root meaning to work or act, meaning to pay taxes in Modern Amharic, but referring to tributary land, and a certain class of tenant farmers). On the other hand, you could use "Wetadder," from modern Amharic (not sure if it existed in Old Amharic) meaning soldier, or from old Amharic something like "Gishgasha" (or Gisgasa? I need to look it up) related to the word for marching, also meaning "soldier."
BTW, Plotinus: Is "Armahman" supposed to be "Amharaman?" I.e. Amhara man? If so, the unit should probably be renamed. For one, Amhara wasn't used as an ethnic group name (though it was used for the language and the name of a medieval province in Wello) until the last quarter of the 20th century, and it's still not very often used by those designated by outsiders as "Amhara." Secondly, the peasant fighters weren't only speakers of Amharic. Perhaps a better name would be "Balager" (from Ba`al Hager - master/husband of the country[side]), or maybe "Chiwa" ("Free man"), "Hara," ("free" or "soldier" in Ge'ez, sometimes said to be the etymology of Amhara - i.e. `am "people" + hara "free"), or maybe "Gebr" or one of its variants (from a root meaning to work or act, meaning to pay taxes in Modern Amharic, but referring to tributary land, and a certain class of tenant farmers). On the other hand, you could use "Wetadder," from modern Amharic (not sure if it existed in Old Amharic) meaning soldier, or from old Amharic something like "Gishgasha" (or Gisgasa? I need to look it up) related to the word for marching, also meaning "soldier."
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
What a great mod! Absolutely addictive 
I have played all four playable groups at Emperor, as well as Ghana at DG and Falasha at Diety. Some thoughts:
Ghana and Makuria are the best civs in their cultural groups. By far. I really don't understand why they start with two cities while their insignificant counterparts don't have any.
Playing Ghana, you put down three new cities, to the east, the south-east and the west all at CxxC. Then you pump out Swordsmen until there is no tomorrow, taking out Mali, Songhai and Benin at your leasure. Not only do the Ghanese have the best UU, they also are the only tribe with immediate access to Trading Posts. In my DG game, I built a road across across the desert, allowing my Wangari Traders rapid access to the trading post in Morocco. They had to take down one barb hut but two Wangaris against a Tribal Warrior is no contest.
Makuria simply has an amazing UU. I did not bother to build any wonders. I simply built one UU after another. First I took out the people to the east (Beja?). Then I went west and south. Finally, I drove the Ayyudibs out of Africa. At the point I won the game by victory points, I was in the process of building a road to Asia and would have taken them down there too.
With the Falasha, you need to be just a little patient. After you've taken down Adulis, get a couple of troups to wear down the AI and move your runners in behind to wipe it out. In this way, you will take down Axum easily. In my Emperor game, I followed up with Massawa too but it later flipped to Adal. Grr! Trust me. I got my revenge.
With Ethiopia, you need to realise that the AI is too stoopid to use the Falasha properly. You will lose Adulis (barring a miracle) and very likely Massawa as well. You can hold Axum. You have to move troops north. The AI will attack Axum with its Runners and Swords. It will probably win. Then you take out the weakened units in the counter-attack. After that, the Falasha are history. It may well take twenty turns before you can take them out because the immediate Adal threat must be dealt with first, but it is still just a matter of time. Once the initial assault is over, it is very important to get some good defenders on the mountains to the east of Tiya, especially the one directly east. Adal's arab swords will attempt to go around them at which point your archers can slaughter them.
The whole secret to playing Central African civs is to build on resources, since you can't build roads to connect them. Unfortunately the AI is completely unable to understand this concept and thus handles them very badly. In an ordinary game, the best civ would be the Hausa, who have great traits and a decent UU. In this one it's different. Without roads speed counts and Kanem-Bornu have speed. When I played this one, I finished the game by taking down Cairo. That's not as good as driving the Ayyudibs off the continent but it was still pretty satisfying. In passing, I think that the nomad should have 2 movement. It is really annoying to see that it will take 15 turns to get a settler to its place. Plus... shouldn't nomads move quickly?
I have played all four playable groups at Emperor, as well as Ghana at DG and Falasha at Diety. Some thoughts:Ghana and Makuria are the best civs in their cultural groups. By far. I really don't understand why they start with two cities while their insignificant counterparts don't have any.
Playing Ghana, you put down three new cities, to the east, the south-east and the west all at CxxC. Then you pump out Swordsmen until there is no tomorrow, taking out Mali, Songhai and Benin at your leasure. Not only do the Ghanese have the best UU, they also are the only tribe with immediate access to Trading Posts. In my DG game, I built a road across across the desert, allowing my Wangari Traders rapid access to the trading post in Morocco. They had to take down one barb hut but two Wangaris against a Tribal Warrior is no contest.
Makuria simply has an amazing UU. I did not bother to build any wonders. I simply built one UU after another. First I took out the people to the east (Beja?). Then I went west and south. Finally, I drove the Ayyudibs out of Africa. At the point I won the game by victory points, I was in the process of building a road to Asia and would have taken them down there too.
With the Falasha, you need to be just a little patient. After you've taken down Adulis, get a couple of troups to wear down the AI and move your runners in behind to wipe it out. In this way, you will take down Axum easily. In my Emperor game, I followed up with Massawa too but it later flipped to Adal. Grr! Trust me. I got my revenge.
With Ethiopia, you need to realise that the AI is too stoopid to use the Falasha properly. You will lose Adulis (barring a miracle) and very likely Massawa as well. You can hold Axum. You have to move troops north. The AI will attack Axum with its Runners and Swords. It will probably win. Then you take out the weakened units in the counter-attack. After that, the Falasha are history. It may well take twenty turns before you can take them out because the immediate Adal threat must be dealt with first, but it is still just a matter of time. Once the initial assault is over, it is very important to get some good defenders on the mountains to the east of Tiya, especially the one directly east. Adal's arab swords will attempt to go around them at which point your archers can slaughter them.
The whole secret to playing Central African civs is to build on resources, since you can't build roads to connect them. Unfortunately the AI is completely unable to understand this concept and thus handles them very badly. In an ordinary game, the best civ would be the Hausa, who have great traits and a decent UU. In this one it's different. Without roads speed counts and Kanem-Bornu have speed. When I played this one, I finished the game by taking down Cairo. That's not as good as driving the Ayyudibs off the continent but it was still pretty satisfying. In passing, I think that the nomad should have 2 movement. It is really annoying to see that it will take 15 turns to get a settler to its place. Plus... shouldn't nomads move quickly?
[Abegweit] Thanks for the comments! You must be a pretty good player to have pulled off feats like those at Emperor and Deity. As I said somewhere, I made it to correspond to my own playing ability, which isn't so great.
I'm hoping that when I get a chance to make the update to this, some of the balance issues you mention should be a little better - in particular Ethiopia and Falasha. It's interesting that you mention Ghana as the best West African civ, as I always thought it was Mali - although Ghana gets two cities to start with, they're placed shockingly badly. Evidently this is no obstacle to a good enough player!
I'm hoping that when I get a chance to make the update to this, some of the balance issues you mention should be a little better - in particular Ethiopia and Falasha. It's interesting that you mention Ghana as the best West African civ, as I always thought it was Mali - although Ghana gets two cities to start with, they're placed shockingly badly. Evidently this is no obstacle to a good enough player!
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