The Great Lighthouse

[obsolete]

Choosing a civ for a "mystery map" and finding out you're not viking/dutch on water map; and finding out two years later that, despite your good intention, viking/dutch are simply too overpowered, well...it doesn't sound like much fun, does it?

One would have to be a beginner to not understand Willem & Ragnar are overpowered (all things being equal) on this map. So it goes without saying that the Map-Makers are well aware of this and left some penalties in place with these two civs.

If it turns out however, that this is not the case, then I would understand that complaint, and you'd have a right to do so.

I'm not going to complain until I finally see what the whole world looks like.

But I admit, had we known ahead of time, there would only be two leaders chosen this game. That should tell you something.

 

[Earthling]

So it goes without saying that the Map-Makers are well aware of this and left some penalties in place with these two civs.

If this is the case, I would extremely annoyed at the mapmaker, more so than anything else that was done mistakenly, and I say so as not even being on either of those teams. If any team's start/lands/other settings were purposefully made worse that would be an awful decision. It's also specifically against the guidelines that were given to the mapmakers afaik - to fully complete the map with "potential starting locations" and then randomly place the six teams among the prepared starting locations.

Also, I disagree that the only leaders chosen if we'd known the map wouldn't be quite so "land-heavy" early on would be Willem and Ragnar. We could likely still see Pacal, Elizabeth, or Victoria as easily as those could have chosen in this game. But just because not everyone made the "beginner" choice of their leaders doesn't mean you should complain certain other teams are so overpowered and give up on the game.

 

[AlphaShard]

You know it's funny but I think the only team really screwed is the Amazons, but I haven't seen one complaint from them that their Immortals are now useless. Not only that but I feel on this map Darius would have been better for them and again no complaints as far as I can see. Of course this is all IMHO.

Also if I had known it was going to be an Islands map I would have voted for Joao II and his Carracks aka Early Galleons. Also Ghandi, Pacal and Hannibal are fine choices for this map. Frankly I think Pacal is a very good choice.

There are plenty of ways to match the Vikings and Dutch, were not invincible.

 

[Winston Hughes]

Any chance we could leave this discussion until the end of the game? We're not supposed to communicate about what we're seeing in the game, and some recent comments are very suggestive.

 

[Earthling]

That isn't listed on the ruleset of this game; only trading screenshots and engaging in diplomacy before meeting a team is prohibited. There was something like that last game but it appears never to have been stated this game.

Though anyway, several players (whether or not they speak for their teams) have been discussing similar things from very early on. Of course, people could assume they are lying or whatnot, but teams mentioning what resources they see/etc... has already been happening. The admins/mapmakers themselves provoked this discussion of a "water-heavy" map.

But I am happy to just play and see how things turn out, and have been - it's just some particularly heavy-handed remarks like hoping certain teams were "penalized" and given worse starts that I'm here to discourage/stand against.

 

[Winston Hughes]

That isn't listed on the ruleset of this game; only trading screenshots and engaging in diplomacy before meeting a team is prohibited. There was something like that this game but it appears never to have been stated this game.

But anyway, several players (/teams) have been discussing things from very early on. Of course, people could assume they are lying or whatnot, but teams mentioning what resources they see/etc... has already been happening. The admins/mapmakers themselves provoked this discussion of a "water-heavy" map.

Ah, okay. Seems I misread the rules.

Edit: Although, what exactly is meant by 'enagaging in diplomacy'? Would trading written information about the map not count as that?

 

[IlBrago]

You know it's funny but I think the only team really screwed is the Amazons, but I haven't seen one complaint from them that their Immortals are now useless.

this is because the map give us a new fantastic resource:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Heraldicseahorse.JPG

 

[TheMeInTeam]

You know it's funny but I think the only team really screwed is the Amazons, but I haven't seen one complaint from them that their Immortals are now useless. Not only that but I feel on this map Darius would have been better for them and again no complaints as far as I can see. Of course this is all IMHO.

Also if I had known it was going to be an Islands map I would have voted for Joao II and his Carracks aka Early Galleons. Also Ghandi, Pacal and Hannibal are fine choices for this map. Frankly I think Pacal is a very good choice.

There are plenty of ways to match the Vikings and Dutch, were not invincible.

It's not like we aren't aware of the implications of different map types on our civ/leader selection. However, there are a lot of turns left. It's too early to complain, just as obsolete said.

Besides, what are we or any non-viking/dutch team going to do, quit? There's plenty of time for that if and only if we get wiped out . Of course, you know how I feel about cherry tapping (you've seen me pick sludge like toku of germany), so if we somehow found a way to come out ahead WITH a disadvantage...heh. I would smile. At least.

this is because the map give us a new fantastic resource:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Heraldicseahorse.JPG

Now THAT would be overpowered .

 

[damnrunner]

You know it's funny but I think the only team really screwed is the Amazons, but I haven't seen one complaint from them that their Immortals are now useless. Not only that but I feel on this map Darius would have been better for them and again no complaints as far as I can see. Of course this is all IMHO.

Be warned - we have many sea horse resources.

 

[AlphaShard]

Let me make it clear that I do not underestimate the Amazon team I have seen TMIT get some bad starts and STILL come out ahead. Not to discount the rest of the team, I just don't know you guys yet heh. I'm just saying people should be thinking of what they do have and not what they don't.

 

[Indiansmoke]

I'm just saying people should be thinking of what they do have and not what they don't.

That is a good tip thank you

 

[obsolete]

We're not supposed to communicate about what we're seeing in the game, and some recent comments are very suggestive.

I can not tell if you are being sarcastic or perhaps missed some earlier posts.

You do realize one of the first SUGGESTIVE posts (of astronomical proportions) was when the map-makers revieled (and showed) the isolated Great Lighthouse.

To argue about anything else after this as being suggestive makes me wonder if you are for real.

 

[Winston Hughes]

@obsolete

I see you're still disinclined to let anyone else's mistakes slip by without dishing out a bucketload of condescension.

I thought certain people were coming close to revealing info about their starts which other teams might not know, and mistakenly believed was against the rules to mention such things outside of the team forums. I'd still question the wisdom of it, but if it's within the rules, then people are free to reveal whatever they want.

 

[obsolete]

But just because not everyone made the "beginner" choice of their leaders doesn't mean you should complain certain other teams are so overpowered and give up on the game.

I never said I would give up, and I don't know who did?

I just stated the facts that are quite well known by anyone who is half-competent. And to further a point, I'm sure even YOU know that when the forums are made public, Raggy's team will show them doing cartwheels when they first found out they hit the jack-pot of maps for that leader.

That should say something in itself.

 

[Rik Meleet]

Moderator Action: I'm starting to dislike the tone of discussion here. Especially the posts targeted at individuals.
Either discuss the topic not the poster (and in a civilized way), or don't discuss.

 

[Sommerswerd]

That isn't listed on the ruleset of this game; only trading screenshots and engaging in diplomacy before meeting a team is prohibited.

IMO, talking about the map at all is against the spirit of the rules against diplomacy before meeting. How can we all be meeting in the UN talking when we have not met in game? The UN should really just be closed (except for needing things, and rule amendments) until all the teams have at least met in-game. All this talk about the map is ruining the game before we even get started.

Though anyway, several players (whether or not they speak for their teams) have been discussing similar things from very early on... The admins/mapmakers themselves provoked this discussion of a "water-heavy" map.

First of all, two wrongs dont make a right. We should stop the discussion about the map... period. Forget what has been said in the past. Secondly, while I agree that the GLH thing started this... and TBH I wish that it had been kept a secret/surprise, but it wasn't... so again, can we just end this map discussion here and now before the game is ruined? Or shall we all just start posting our sceenshots here in the forum and just get it over with? Maybe just have the admins give us a shot of the whole map and be done with it... That way we can just skip all this hinting and inuendo.

one of the first SUGGESTIVE posts (of astronomical proportions) was when the map-makers revieled (and showed) the isolated Great Lighthouse.

I agree, but I wish we could just stop talking about the map entirely.

the only team really screwed is the Amazons, but I haven't seen one complaint from them

That statement alone should end this discussion.