Thoughts on civ economy/civic/religion synergies
- Thread starter akatosh
- Start date
I was more making the point that the opportunity cost of setting aside a mage and a priest becomes insignificant. That said, An illusionary FG heals after every combat, so it can kill a 200 unit stack on defense. Or, an non-illusion HN golem can severely soften up an opponent before you declare war.
Raw production power (and long-run efficiency in turning production into power) is key in big/long games, for sure. In general, stack-killing isn't THAT much more important than in regular games, in my experience; while there's a potential for mega-stacks to get more out of hand in long, huge world games, the factors that lead to 100+ unit stacks are more complex than that. And really, the tactics you use to deal with a 30 unit stack aren't fundamentally any different than how you deal with a 150 unit stack.
Hmm, that's very interesting. How do you make illusionary / hidden nationality flesh golems? Illusionary I am guessing is Gibbon only?
Also, has anyone written a primer how to get an effective flesh golem early enough to where it has some practical use? I remember seeing some theory craft threads like "Flesh golem ultimate weapon of Calabim" and people talking about how to make an ultimate flesh golem, but that's really endgame stuff.
Yeah, illusionary is Gibbon only, unless you wanted to promote a Svart archmage up the body line (you don't).
For HN, just merge a captured wolf into the golem, or a nightwatch if you want to make it spendy.
(This is probably obvious, but you generally want either the illusion or HN promos, but not both.)
I wrote a "useful flesh golems" thread.
UnforcedError
Settler
doktarr, you actually left out Sons of the Inferno of the equation. They are probably faster to get than Gibbon, although it will take a bit of time until they can take the three promos as the AI will never leave them unpromoted. At the plus side you don't even need KotE as the Clan has Body mana anyway.
In any case, I wouldn't waste their promos on Flesh Golems. Body 1-2 yes, definitely.
In any case, I wouldn't waste their promos on Flesh Golems. Body 1-2 yes, definitely.
Right, SotI are awesome, and I have Dominated Sons of the Inferno with Gibbon and Corlindale in the past. However, I wouldn't spend their promotions on Graft Flesh.
UnforcedError
Settler
I actually meant the Clan's WS. That's faster than Gibbon or Corlindale. You can cast it anytime SoI start to appear. It might even be fast enough to get flesh golems within a resonable time frame. I liked the posted strategies with them btw. Maybe I'll test this with the Clan just to see how it works out.
![[to_xp]Gekko](https://civfanatics-data.community.forum/avatars/m/74/74677.jpg?1475248346){kind=avatar}
[to_xp]Gekko
QCT junkie
getting sons that way was a bug that got fixed a while ago 
UnforcedError
Settler
...
[to_xp]Gekko
QCT junkie
no MNAI? well you asked for it 
UnforcedError
Settler
We're discussing the base game here, aren't we? Cause if not, why aren't we discussing EitB?[to_xp]Gekko;12662912 said:no MNAI? well you asked for it
I basically consider MNAI to be a continuation of the main branch of the game. Most people discussing stuff here are playing MNAI.
UnforcedError
Settler
I play both MNAI and EitB. However, your Flesh Golem strategy might look fundamentally different in EitB as Sorcery has a higher priority on the GS bulbing list as the other mana techs so Arcane Lore can potentially rushed fairly fast especially with PHI.
UnforcedError
Settler
Fortunately not all of them
[to_xp]Gekko
QCT junkie
what's wrong with MNAI changes?
UnforcedError
Settler
I remember the two of us discussing this in some other thread...[to_xp]Gekko;12663966 said:
EDIT: sorry, can't find which thread it was for some reason. Will look for it tomorrow.
I definitely don't consider it the base mod. It definitely improves on the base and has earned the right to be used as the start of most modmods, but its not base. And I basically only discuss EitB here, which is a(nother) reason why I'm so quiet on a lot of the things brought up.
UnforcedError is probably talking about some of the changes MNAI makes to the base game that affect gameplay (for example, the various "fixes" which I generally consider positive but do alter the game - Keelyn/Luchuirp WS are prime examples).
I can't think why both I and UnforcedError jumped to the WS
UnforcedError is probably talking about some of the changes MNAI makes to the base game that affect gameplay (for example, the various "fixes" which I generally consider positive but do alter the game - Keelyn/Luchuirp WS are prime examples).
I can't think why both I and UnforcedError jumped to the WS
UnforcedError
Settler
Yeah, no idea whyI definitely don't consider it the base mod. It definitely improves on the base and has earned the right to be used as the start of most modmods, but its not base. And I basically only discuss EitB here, which is a(nother) reason why I'm so quiet on a lot of the things brought up.
UnforcedError is probably talking about some of the changes MNAI makes to the base game that affect gameplay (for example, the various "fixes" which I generally consider positive but do alter the game - Keelyn/Luchuirp WS are prime examples).
I can't think why both I and UnforcedError jumped to the WS
You're right. MNAI does alter game play in a lot of cases and no, sometimes it's not necessarily positive, say culture bug or the insaitable desire of the AI to pop dungeons next to you, the early AW feel etc etc.
What I'm still unhappy about in basically either of the modmods is winning strategies for the AI. Some algorithm to decide which VC to go for and pull it off. When does the AI ever win by Altar? Or ToM? It might pull off a lucky religious / diplo / dom but only if you don't pay attention. So you can always come back even after a horrendous start and as soon as you have some key units you can start your systematic crusade against them which you're eventually bound to win.
