Late game warfare blows...

K

kornuletz

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
40
Finally tried the game and its quite fun.

My problem is that late game war seems to be dumb when fighting people from other continents.. there seems to be no limit to aircraft stacking in cities... and a fricking caravel!!! is hunting and destroying my modern armors one by one, just because I find it too tiresome to always manually send them with escorts...

How do you invade another continent with cities loaded with aircraft?
 
You have to bring some ships with carriers, fighters and bombers and soften your target before you bring land units. In fact you need far more naval and air power than land units. Nukes will destroy every air unit in a city and cause significant damage to every unit around the city.
 
It must be heartbreaking to see your doomstack of 25 bombers get nuked...

In answer to your question, though, playing on the "continents" map is basically asking to have a lot of air and naval warfare, and to be playing a game where it's hard to invade other places. If you really won't escort your units while they're embarked, try playing as Askia - his units still fight when at sea.

If you still dislike naval warfare a lot, try playing on a Pangaea map. The AI doesn't really handle sea war very well either, I find Pangaea to make for a better game.
 
kornuletz said:
....and a fricking caravel!!! is hunting and destroying my modern armors one by one, just because I find it too tiresome to always manually send them with escorts...
Click to expand...
That is just laziness. Send escorts to protect your army and destroy the enemy fleet.


kornuletz said:
How do you invade another continent with cities loaded with aircraft?
Click to expand...
Bring along your own carriers, loaded with your fighters and put those fighters on Intercept. Back that up AA troops on the ground and no more problem :)
 
Lunchmoney said:
That is just laziness. Send escorts to protect your army and destroy the enemy fleet.
Click to expand...


Even if you have a big fleet a few caravels can still sink modern units:(

They should have donne that a ship can fire range atacks at the embarked units and not instant kill XD


This is way more balanced so you can't kill a giant transport ships with only one ship no you need more navy a lot more ships to stop a invasion...

THe AI would olso be way better at naval combat then as it is know
 
I find that I don't like late game warfare either, but not for the reasons you cite.

I find that technology moves much too quickly that late in the game to use effectively. By the time I've built an infantry, moved him across the continent (or ocean) to the enemy, I've got the tech for mechanized infantry (and so does the enemy). The same goes for tanks/modern armor, fighter/bomber etc.

I just wish I could slow down everyone's rate of scientific advance to give us all some time to actually *use* it before it becomes obsolete.
 
TechnoMule said:
I just wish I could slow down everyone's rate of scientific advance to give us all some time to actually *use* it before it becomes obsolete.
Click to expand...

Maybe, try playing on epic or marathon, this works well.;)
 
Gilgamesch said:
Maybe, try playing on epic or marathon, this works well.;)
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Yup, I always play Epic when I'm planning on domination because you get so much more time to use the units and the game ends up much richer.
 
Gilgamesch said:
Maybe, try playing on epic or marathon, this works well.;)
Click to expand...

I would like a way to keep production level at the standard level but have science to take as long as it would in epic and marathon game speed. I to agree that late game techs go by fast. I would like them to take longer.

Also some of my games I can get Infantry before I get Riflemen depending on the order I tech. I find that odd.
 
kornuletz said:
Finally tried the game and its quite fun.

My problem is that late game war seems to be dumb when fighting people from other continents.. there seems to be no limit to aircraft stacking in cities... and a fricking caravel!!! is hunting and destroying my modern armors one by one, just because I find it too tiresome to always manually send them with escorts...

How do you invade another continent with cities loaded with aircraft?
Click to expand...
A nuclear sub or two loaded with nuclear missiles will clear a path for your invading troops, but the fallout makes movement slower once you've landed. Also, a couple of nuclear subs can one-shot the majority/all naval units with a couple of relevant promos.

As others have said, continental invasion is all about combined arms. You'll need a decent navy and air force to back up your ground troops. A couple of nukes doesn't hurt either if your opponent has them as the only current defense against nukes, is a nuclear strike on the city/s containing them.
 
I think the problem with escorts is that the massive nerfing of ships made them fairly useless against anything that is not also a ship and generally easier to kill with a city, archers or such.
As a consequence people started building alot less ships, I build 5 at most before the end of the game, while before patch I used to have massive navies that would wreck seasides and from which you could easily split a contingent to escort your troops.

I don't get this 'balancing' they've done, at this point the only way to take a city pre artillery without wasting 10+ turns is to abuse UU's or use the iron units, I don't even see the AI profiting from this as they still build massive navies or try to take a city with knights or horsemen.

What I think their logic was is, the AI can't handle these specialty units, so we'll just nerf them, while forgetting that the AI can't handle siege weaponry or swordman either.

That's not saying the patches where'nt necessary, they somewhat improved diplomacy, the game crashes alot less but I actually enjoyed combat more in the unpatched game
 
kornuletz said:
Finally tried the game and its quite fun.

My problem is that late game war seems to be dumb when fighting people from other continents.. there seems to be no limit to aircraft stacking in cities... and a fricking caravel!!! is hunting and destroying my modern armors one by one, just because I find it too tiresome to always manually send them with escorts...
Click to expand...

Send in some naval units to clear the way and sink their navy BEFORE you send in your land troops, and protect your land troops with your ships when they are at sea!

How do you invade another continent with cities loaded with aircraft?
Click to expand...

Send in lots of destroyers and carriers with fighters on intercept... the AI usually sends his aircraft again and again, without repairing them, until they are dead, which doesn't take too long. If possible, and if you have land close enough, also present him with a juicy target (like a Missile Artillery or Modern Armour) protected by 2 or 3 AA units.
 
TechnoMule said:
I just wish I could slow down everyone's rate of scientific advance to give us all some time to actually *use* it before it becomes obsolete.
Click to expand...

You could make a mod where you set Marathon's production/improvement building/etc to Epic, Normal, or even Quick levels (and keep the research speed). Go to the CivV folder, assets, gameplay, XML, gameinfo, and Civ5 GameSpeeds. Just make sure you fix the changes you make before going back to MP if you edit directly (like I did). :lol:
 
Sonereal said:
You could make a mod where you set Marathon's production/improvement building/etc to Epic, Normal, or even Quick levels (and keep the research speed). Go to the CivV folder, assets, gameplay, XML, gameinfo, and Civ5 GameSpeeds. Just make sure you fix the changes you make before going back to MP if you edit directly (like I did). :lol:
Click to expand...

Ahhh that's a thought. I'd poked around in a few files looking for a setting like that, but didn't come up with much. I'll have to go have a look at that file now.

It's actually in MP that I'd like to use it, so I'll have to make sure I change the setting on my wife's computer too. We've already upped the number of civs per map size for a bit more competition.

Thanks for the tip!
 
IMO the late game tech pace is the root of the problem. Games where I impose artificial restrictions on myself like NO GS or no RA, makes late game warfare much more fun.
 
Why don't you buy a CS and park your troups there before attaking your enemy? That is what I have done. If you just want to conquer a capital at the sea: bring a few units in position: declare war, stealthbomb the city and take it with a unit. This strategy is easy with England, GLH, and Naval tradition.
 
I think the Nuke option is the best for this problem. I used this strategy once because Gandhi of all people had like 4 Nukes in one city and was making me nervous so I did a little preemptive strike on him. That was before the patch that made it so a city has to be within your line of site to see how many aircraft/Missiles are in a city. It could be harder now, you'd need a nearby fighter to avoid losing any ground units to close to the blast, or know where the enemies Aircraft/missiles are hiding, or just Nuke all the enemies cities on the same turn but that would require a lot of Uranium.
 
I agree somewhat. Late game warfare may be fun on lower difficulties where you're rolling over enemy archers with your modern armor/mech infantry armies. But the fun diminishes quickly as the difficulty increases.

I'm currently playing Earth 18 civs map as England with Noble difficulty. The way Monty's trebuchets turn my modern armor stack into an easy kill for his 30-40 riflemen is just ridiculous. Alright, Monty has 20+ trebuchets in the stack and my stack has 10-15 modern armor units. But still - it's trebs/rifles vs modern armor!

China is even worse. Qin has bigger stacks than Monty, but his units are technologically much more advanced as well.
 
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