[Vote] (1-01) Open Borders Needed For Trade Routes Once Unlocked

[jaymrobinson]

It's an interesting proposal. Perhaps one thing that worries me is having to redo trade routes when open-border status is often changing. Would the proposal cancel current trade routes if you lose open borders?

 

[Recursive]

I've made a less radical proposal, which @ilteroi liked and asked me to do a counterproposal. However, it got vetoed as it was no longer proposal-phase.

@Recursive : does this mean that I have to wait for the next session and make a regular proposal? What happens if this proposal passes, is ilteroi obliged to make the change, even if he liked my idea better? (I do not want to speak instead of him, just a theoretical question)

Yes to all.

It's an interesting proposal. Perhaps one thing that worries me is having to redo trade routes when open-border status is often changing. Would the proposal cancel current trade routes if you lose open borders?

Was not specified, so it would only apply to starting trade routes. If they already exist they'll run to completion or until destroyed.

 

[Slyceth]

Hard no. AI's are stubborn meanies. If you slight one AI at any point you can expect them to be mad forever and denounce you every 50 turns. This means that even if that AI is not REALLY mad at you they will still denounce you for your world congress proposals because they're meanies.

Denounce = no embassy, no open borders. So the ai is missing out on the religion pressure and science and gold bonusses from trade routes.

Moderator Action: Post edited. Please use appropriate language. - Recursive

 

[beginner_]

While it sounds interesting, it's a huge buff for all the internal trade routes bonuses as you will likely have more of them because else your slots aren't filled. Internal trade routes are always possible so it just seems to be the better, safer choice to go for things that buff them over external routes. Statecraft comes to mind, it's a huge nerf if you can't full make benefit of its policies.

On the plus side it's a nerf to culture victory as it not only can you deny the open-borders modifier but also the trade-route modifier.

If we want to change something, I would lean more towards having trade agreement treaty (like in real world for lower import taxes). You would need it to get the trade-troue tourism modifer and it would give a buff to trade routes to that AI. Maybe proposal for next session.

 

[Dimmy]

I voted yes even thoug I am not convinced because we ought to try some stuff we don't like sometimes and see if it is that horrible. Maybe if there was a way around that restriction, maybe a policy or a certain amount of tourism or score point or when reaching information era...

 

[ilteroi]

actually maybe the idea "no traderoutes either way during active denouncement" is better. next time ...

 

[nekokon]

actually maybe the idea "no traderoutes either way during active denouncement" is better. next time ...

Would it be hard to have a new "trade agreement" in diplomacy options solely for TR instead ? Open border touches so many other things already and would be extremely hard to fine tune AI if even more considerations are piled onto it.

 

[usadefcon1]

Would it be hard to have a new "trade agreement" in diplomacy options solely for TR instead ? Open border touches so many other things already and would be extremely hard to fine tune AI if even more considerations are piled onto it.

That would be cool and open up the opportunity for individual Trade Embargoes, something that hasn't been done since Civ 3

 

[Slyceth]

That would be cool and open up the opportunity for individual Trade Embargoes, something that hasn't been done since Civ 3

Can you elaborate how it works in Civ 3?

 

[DeAnno]

actually maybe the idea "no traderoutes either way during active denouncement" is better. next time ...

This actually feels like a way better way to do "Sanctions" than the UN. It allows for two blocks that don't trade with each other.

 

[Stalker0]

actually maybe the idea "no traderoutes either way during active denouncement" is better. next time ...

So the top player can prevent one of the key rubber bands in the game (ETRs) through a simple denouncement?

Eh no thanks

 

[usadefcon1]

Can you elaborate how it works in Civ 3?

Trade embargoes is a choice on the diplomacy screen.
If I remember correctly when you agree to embargo a 3rd party, all resource swaps and trade deals are cancelled and cannot be restarted until the embargo expires.

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.