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1.16-Mayan UHV Strategy Guide

Discussion in 'Gameplay Guides' started by Mxzs, Nov 25, 2019.

  1. Mxzs

    Mxzs Prince

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    The following Mayan UHV strategy is two-parts exercise in hair-on-fire crisis management, and one part cheap and gamey tactic to end the game early so you can go off to do better things with your life. I would love to see someone post alternative strategies for this UHV game.

    UHV Conditions
    1. Discover Calendar by Turn 154
    2. Build the Temple of Kukulkan by Turn 210.
    3. Contact a European civilization before any discover the Americas

    The Situation
    You open in the Yucatan, which is one of the most unpropitious starting places on the map. (It's a green Hell.) Aside from a shortage of strategic wealth—you get a Silver, a Stone, some Dye, and some seafood (but neither the Stone nor the seafood are inside the BFC of your spawn point)—you will have barbarian/Native cities spawning nearby, and Native Holkans popping up every few turns inside your borders. You have only two Holkans as starting units, and you only get one Worker to improve the rainforest-ridden terrain.

    And then along about the time you'd be finishing your second UHV condition, waves and waves of hostile units will come sluicing down through Mexico, right at your face.

    Really, as the computer said in War Games, the only winning strategy is not to play.

    Or, at least, we can end the nightmare as quickly as possible.

    First Moves
    The first thirty or so moves consist in running around while tamping down all the threats. The first threat will come from a Native city that will spawn on Turn 125 on the Stone tile three west of your starting location; the second will be the Holkans that will spawn in your territory; the third will be a barbarian city that spawns in southern Mexico, just outside your historical territory.

    The key to solving all these problems is to grab Danibaan (that first-to-spawn Native city) for yourself.

    Found Yax Mutal on your starting location, and prioritize building a Holkan. (Work the Silver tile, not the Corn tile, though it stagnates YM, and mine the hill.) That should give you a third Holkan a turn or two before Danibaan appears. Fortify your three Holkan on the Corn tile west of the river. When Danibaan spawns, two of its Holkan will swarm out and attack you across the river. You will have better than even odds of surviving the attack with all three units intact (though one may have been mauled) and you should be able to easily defeat any of their survivors when you charge across the river the next turn. Unless you have had some very bad rolls, you should still have three units (two of them pretty sturdy) to attack Danibaan with. It will have only one defender, and you need to rush it before it builds an Archer. The odds are with you. You've a good-ish chance of taking it with no losses; a better chance of losing one of your units in the first charge but taking it in the second; and a smaller (but not vanishingly small) chance of losing two units but still getting it. It's very rare to lose all three units without taking Danibaan, and if that happens, I recommend liquor.

    Danibaan serves four purposes: First, it is a second city, and you need two of them and you need them quickly. Second, it gives you access to Stone, which you need for the Temple of Kukulkan. Third, it is a very productive city, and it will be the one you use to manufacture units. And fourth, it's a stopper in the hole that lets Natives swarm in from Mexico.

    Once it has come out of resistance, turn your Culture up to 100% for two to three turns until you have pushed Danibaan's borders out to the second ring. This will pre-empt the hostile city of Tolan from spawning, and will also get you food resources for Danibaan. (Don't bother trying to improve them. The natives are too frisky up there, and you won't need them.) Set Danibaan to producing units: Three Archers for itself, and enough Holkan to bring your total Holkan force up to five. Yax Mutal should have been building an Archer for itself in the meantime.

    The End of the Beginning
    There will be some hairy moments when hostile units attack your cities before you've got your army formed, and before you've got good defenses for them. There is a chance of disaster, but it's a risk you'll have to take. After you've got two Archers in Danibaan (the third is to guard against maliciously awful combat rolls) and one Archer and a Holkan in Yax Mutal, you should be safe from the worst.

    Hostile Holkan will spawn on any tile in Mesoamerica that is two tiles from one of your cities. With Yax Mutal and Danibaan, there are five such tiles: the two northernmost tiles in Yucatan, and the three tiles below the line formed by three Mountain peaks and the Silver hill. These tiles are where you will park your five Holkan, forcing those hostiles to spawn in Mexico, where they can cheerfully dash their brains out against the walls of Danibaan. [Okay, you can get away with building four Holkan and a Militia. The Militia can go on the Plains tile south of the silver, but you need Holkan for the tiles because of the rainforest.]

    Once you have your five Holkan in place and Danibaan well garrisoned, you will not have to worry about hostile units.

    In the meantime, your Worker should be improving the landscape—what little of it he can improve, as that's basically just the Silver, the Corn, and the hill south of Danibaan. There's not much point to improving anything else, though, because of other moves you will have been making.

    Techs
    You need three techs to win under this strategy: Calendar (a UHV condition); Aesthetics (for the Temple); and Seafaring (for finding the Europeans). But it starts with Writing, which is your first research goal.

    Once you've discovered Writing, change to Republic; when each of your cities has three citizens, hire a Scientist. This is like getting a Library without building one. After Writing, research Calendar, which you should get with two or three turns to spare before the deadline. Then research Leverage, Construction, and Priesthood. While you're researching these, Yax Mutal should generate a Great Scientist, who you can use to get Arithmetics and Mathematics. Then you can get Aesthetics. Following that, research Seafaring.

    And that is all that you will need. If you are bored, research Alloys so you can build some more inside the jungles.

    Builds
    You will be prioritizing units, but if you want to end the game early (and really, why wouldn't you?) make a Settler an early build in Yax Mutal. You won't need any other buildings—no Libraries, no Granaries or Harbors; only maybe some Walls in Danibaan, and if you're really nervous about the jungle life, a Barracks and Ball Court there. Also, build another unit—Holkan, Militia, Archer, anything you like—and a Galley when you've got Seafaring.

    The Temple of Kukulkan you will build in Danibaan (which should have a population of four by the time it becomes available), and you can let the city run a food deficit as you build it, for you will be collecting food from research (the Mayan UP) and from defeating enemies (a Holkan attribute). You should be able to build the Temple with ten or so turns to spare. This will get you the Golden Age.

    A Gamey End to a Very Gamey UHV Game
    As you are building Temple, you will likely finish the Galley. Load it with the Settler and unit, and send it up the east coast of North America. Eventually you will hit a spit of forested land surrounded by impassible Cape tiles. Land the Settler, build a city. Its cultural borders will encompass the Capes, allowing your ship to pass through them. Continue north with your Galley and unit (no need to garrison the city; you would want to see it conquered but alas there will be no Dog Soldiers that early to take it off your hands) until you hit Greenland. A two-tile spit of Ice will halt further movement east, but you can drop your unit off and move him several tiles to the north and one tile to the east until the western tiles of Iceland become visible.

    Eventually, some Europeans should sail into the area, making contact. As Greenland is not part of North America, this counts as "contacting Europeans" before the Europeans find the Americas. Depending on your luck, this can occur before 1000 AD.

    Then quit the game and go find something less stressful to do.

    My thanks to bluepotato for explaining how to get the third UHV condition done so as to get done and get out.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
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  2. BaneFire

    BaneFire Warlord

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    I'm sure that I was once able to get a caravel as the Maya and meet the Europeans in good time. But this may have been on an earlier version and on an easier difficulty. Cartography is like 20 techs away anyway.
     
  3. mateyson

    mateyson Chieftain

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    Is it true that you cant trade tech?
    UPD: Yes, before Optics.
    Alien: Totall Isolation)
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  4. Theophilos

    Theophilos Warlord

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    I'm confused. The civilopedia for the GALLEY states:

    "Cannot enter Ocean, Cape (until Compass)"

    Wouldn't this mean you could get to the europeans by getting compass?

    (although when I tried compass on my viking playthrough it didn't seem to effect anything by getting compass. . .)

    edit:

    nevermind that just means after compass it can enter capes
     
  5. Theophilos

    Theophilos Warlord

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    Among patchnotes it states:

    >* Fixed an exploit that allowed winning the Maya UHV by meeting European explorers at sea

    Does that mean your method is not usable anymore?
     
  6. bluepotato

    bluepotato Warlord

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    I haven't tried the UHV in a while, but I think that refers to a bug which made meeting the Europeans in the Caribbean count as meeting them before discovering America.
     
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  7. Theophilos

    Theophilos Warlord

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    Ok playing on Regent/Normal I was able to complete it at 1450 AD by using caravels, so it is possible...!
     
  8. Hickman888

    Hickman888 Warlord

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    That’s how I did it as well:
    Despotism in the beginning to whip out a couple of libraries, republic after that to run plenty of scientists and merchants, and despotism at the end, to whip out my caravel and go meet the Portuguese.

    And I was promptly rewarded with a plague. :lol:
     
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  9. Theophilos

    Theophilos Warlord

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    I did a lot of whipping too, but I did not go republic (it makes sense to go republic but idk it would make me feel weird playing Republic Maya) I ended up going monarchy to get a little more happiness but idk I am not a great player.

    I ended up going back to despotism just to whip the caravel too, because idk when the europeans usually come. I didn't see a plague because it was 8 AM, a severe "one more turn" syndome where I did not go to bed so I exited as soon as I won
     
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  10. Hickman888

    Hickman888 Warlord

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    I had the same aversion to running a republic as the Mayans: Very unhistorical! But after failing twice while running despotism the entire time, I had to bite the bullet and run republic in order to complete the historical victory.

    And dang, that is a serious case of "one more turn!" :lol: I think the most I've gotten before is 3:15 AM, haha.
     
  11. Steb

    Steb King

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    The Republic civic mostly represents city states that are ruled by an oligarchy. So it is arguably very historical for the Maya! (Though depending on which Maya state you look at, any of the three ancient government civics could be justified.)
     
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  12. Hickman888

    Hickman888 Warlord

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    I hadn't thought of that, but considering how classical Greece also runs republic, it makes sense!
     
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  13. rmontaruli

    rmontaruli Prince

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    Despotism is a good strategy for UHV 1 and 2.

    UHV 3 is the hard target. Not only it is not well defined.
    What does "Discover America" means?
    See any coast tile?
    Or just enter in the rectangle of tiles?

    In my last game with Mayans i meet a Viking caravel from Pacific Ocean (!!!) while i awaited someone with sentries in Labrador, in Carabbaens and in Brazil.
    And i don't yet know if it is enough to achive UHV 3 or if i need a caravel too and send it to Europe before Columbus.

    Totally out of control.
     
  14. DanLT3

    DanLT3 Warlord

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    If you are playing DoC version 1.16.x you can get UHV by contacting the Vikings through their first settlements on Iceland (which is not America).
    This however requires you to settle a city in NorthEast Canada to enable you to place a troops in Greenland to contact them.
    The America is very big area which as you might expect covers most of it.
     
  15. rmontaruli

    rmontaruli Prince

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    Let me understand.
    I have to settle a city in Vinland, then wait for cultural growth, then move a boat to Greenland and hope for a Viking settlement in Iceland?
     
  16. DanLT3

    DanLT3 Warlord

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    Yes, except you might not need to wait for culture advancement if you settle the city in the right spot. Also you need a unload a troop from your galley and place it on Greenlands most eastern tip (facing Iceland).
    Once the Viking city there (they almost always settle one) expand their culture border you will meet them.
     
  17. rmontaruli

    rmontaruli Prince

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    Quite easy if one knows what to do.
    Totally out of any history.
    And always out of control of a player (in my game i met that viking caravel without any settement in Iceland).

    But i want to try: I shoud have a savegame one turn before Mayan wonder...
     
  18. Enyavar

    Enyavar Prince

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    Okay, I am doing a run on the easiest setting (higher settings will certainly not be nearly as favorable). Before properly starting with the Maya, I kinda mucked up the game of Egypt, Greeks and Romans (and Carthage), but I expect the effects on the Maya game to be marginal at best.

    Spoiler The general strategy of the original post worked flawlessly even when I changed a lot of things. :
    Civ4ScreenShot0117.JPG Civ4ScreenShot0118.JPG

    I totally missed the "stressful" thing that OP mentions, this was a relaxed game compared to a certain late-game challenge that involved "oh just micromanage your 60+ cities".

    Then, I have some small changes in the recommended walkthrough:
    • Build your galleon and a militia extremely early, and here I mean asap. Research writing, research shipbuilding, galley+militia and go north. The capes that hinder the passage off the Northamerican coast? Well, they are not there if you're passing through long before ~500 AD. First I thought that they were removed by Leoreth for this update, but they appeared at some point before the 750s. --> The early bird doesn't need a settler to get to Greenland.
    • Try to capture the stone hill with your Holkans before Danibaan appears: I only lost one Holkan defeating the two of them; and then I had the Mutal-built Holkan that helped taking down the unfortified spawn-Holkan in Danibaan, easily.
    • I sacrificed two units to capture Puh (= Tenochtitlan = Ciudad de Mexico): This way, Puh is the lightning rod against the northern invasions instead of Danibaan, and the Maya can now actually work (and even improve) the dye and the corn north of Danibaan instead of leaving it to the Barbarians. Puh is also a productive hill city and dominates the north quite nice so that attackers can be seen long beforehand.
    • I also didn't occupy everything south of the silver just to prevent spawns. Instead, I garrisoned some Holkans on the silver and took down the Barbarians whenever they appeared, so that they contributed the food directly to Yax Mutal and not some other city. (like Danibaan and Puh, who get enough food anyway, see above)
    • I think the power of Uuc Yabnal (the free place north of the dye) is underappreciated. With nothing but a fisher boat and despotism, this spot can be made quite powerful: whip a harbor, whip a granary, and you can whip the spot to be profitable. It needs a while, sure, but then also stabilizes the Empire (which is needed if you do it my way and conquer Puh)
    • Finally, I also started to build infrastructure in my cities about halfway into the construction of the Kukulkan Pyramids. First barracks and ball courts to help with more Holkans, but then also Libraries (switch to Despotism for some whipping without losing the scientists) and aqueducts and markets and pagan step pyramids: All these buildings are helpful for larger population or quicker teching. The unit-focused starter strategy has a lot of merit, but at some point I decided that I have enough units, especially when saveloading to lose as little Holkans etc. as possible. Mind you, I lost 4 Holkan to kill 18 others, plus 5 Jaguars and 2 Archers (not the final statistics).
    I am curious if it IS possible to finish the game without that gamey Greenland stuff, because the tech rate with that 4-city Mayan Empire looks pretty decent to me. In that particular savegame I am in 900 AD and only 18 technologies away from Cartography (the caravel tech). My gamey mess-up-antiquity intro made sure that the Great Library (!) and the Flavian Amphitheatre both didn't get built, which looks promising in my opinion. Especially seeing how I can rack up great scientists with the Republican/Libraries anyway. So... more testing!
     
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  19. Enyavar

    Enyavar Prince

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    So, yes, in total there are 40 techs to research, and with a tight deadline. I can't imagine that you can meet the goals unless you do the scenario on Easy mode, with its drastically reduced research costs.

    Spoiler More things that I did different in this newest rerun: :

    • Obviously: Not build the early Galleon, because I wanted to win like the scenario designer intended.
    • The additional settler was still built, together with a work boat. I positioned them at Uuc Yabnal but waited a bit and didn't build that city until I conquered Puh a few turns later.
    • Right after researching Arithmetics, switch towards Deification+Redistribution. Republic is a switch right from the start, as per OP.
    • Build the Kukulkan Pyramid in Yax Mutal: The additional food from rainforest is great to have. Civ4ScreenShot0119.JPG Also, Danibaan's build loop is free for more Holkans (the only barracks and ball court for a while were only there, plus my Great Military Instructor later)
    • Build the Great Library of Danibaan! (research the prereq techs as soon as possible after Aesthetics!) Civ4ScreenShot0120.JPG
    • Next reserch orders are towards Harbors (needed in Yax and Uuc) and towards Law (then switch civics to Despotism+Citizenship, to rush libraries, aqueducts and markets). Obviously, then research towards Markets.
    • Build Machu Pichu and the Flacian Amphitheatre in Puh, and the Floating Gardens in Yax. Civ4ScreenShot0122.JPG
    • Finish the long count in 1110 (i.e. the last technology before the Middle Ages).
    • There are three waves of Jaguar Natives coming from Northern Mexiko: first 3, again 3, finally 4. These Jaguars appear staggered, so they can be beat one per turn, but you need about 2 Holkans for each. Not counting the rare Dog soldiers.
    • In 1190, I beat the Aztec uprising in the following way: They declared war on me and demanded to flip Puh. I agreed to the flip and my Hill-promoted units from Danibaan retook Tenochtitlan in the very same turn. The Aztec reinforcements that spawned to the north, were wiped out in the same turn. NOT agreeing to the flip makes 13 Jaguars and 11 Archers appear, which is nothing the Maya can handle. Civ4ScreenShot0125.JPG
    • In 1220, I destroyed the replacement Aztecs when they attacked Tenochtitlan with 5 Jaguars and 3 Archers. That was a very stressful battle, I expended half my Holkan force before I even destroyed the first enemy units. But my Archers shot the survivors down the next turn, and Mesoamerica returned to normal. Civ4ScreenShot0127.JPG
    • In 1360, I could upgrade a pre-built Cog into a Caravel. Civ4ScreenShot0128.JPG
    • In 1380, I contacted Portugal and contracted a bad case of Plague. Civ4ScreenShot0129.JPG
      • Then my technologically superior Holkans lay waste to each European city they encountered, converted everyone to my Tikal religion and after the European natives were decimated, I imported slaves from Africa and built plantations all over Europe... Oh wait no, I didn't do that. Pity.
    Spoiler Proof of Victory :
    Civ4ScreenShot0131.JPG Civ4ScreenShot0130.JPG


    So yes, winning the Mayan UHV is possible without the Greenland cheat, and I found it pretty great. I wonder if it's also possible without the Great Library, or on Prince/Monarch difficulty settings. Probably not both at the same time.
     
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  20. DanLT3

    DanLT3 Warlord

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    As of 1.16.3 (or maybe sooner) the barrier which blocks your galley from going all the way to Greenland does not exists early on (500 AD). Thus the need to a city in NE Canada no longer exists.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021

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