1.16 - Spanish strategy

[TsarAndreas]

Thank you DanLT3

I am taking your advice - will see how it turns out.

Random question - I thought that the Spanish core expanded when you had BOTH expelled the Moors AND reached the Renaissance.

I've got Firearms and every tile is culturally Spanish, but my core is still northwestern Spain. Do I need to remove Moorish culture from Cordoba (currently 42%)?

Cheers

Edit: I got it up to 99% Spanish, still nothing. I think it might be a bug due to Cordoba being the last Moorish city when I conquered it - the Vikings had already taken Marrakech.

It's a shame - the small core has really restricted my expansion.

 

[DanLT3]

I think there are some year limit to the expansion of the core. I think its around 1300 AD.

 

[TsarAndreas]

Limit meaning:
- you have to conquer by that date, or
- it won't change before that date?

Either way, I've started again and it seems to have worked fine this time.

Funny aside - I did such a good job of converting the conquered Moors to Catholicism that when the Reformation came, they felt Christian enough to convert to Protestantism....

 

[WhiteEyes]

Spain UHV is easier than England!
In regent difficulty and epic speed at least.

Oviedo has better production than Santiago. Santiago had to compete its tiles with Portugal.

Krak Des Chevalier isnt mandatory, Cordoba lose Islam in 1200 so you wont likely to finish it in time without Great Engineer.
Building monastery and spreading Islam to Madrid is also slow and unreliable way.

Rome is always prioritized before Cordoba. 3 Trebuchet is sufficient but time is tight and im not sure on the best build order for each city. I wonder if training Catapult is better due to faster build time.

Barcelona will flip themselves to Spain later on, but i forgot when. I don't think it worth the wait either.

Should I go for Great Merchant instead of Great Engineer early on?

Also does anyone have recommendation where are the good spots on South America besides the eastern coasts?

 

[SultanRedSnake]

Thank you DanLT3

I am taking your advice - will see how it turns out.

Random question - I thought that the Spanish core expanded when you had BOTH expelled the Moors AND reached the Renaissance.

I've got Firearms and every tile is culturally Spanish, but my core is still northwestern Spain. Do I need to remove Moorish culture from Cordoba (currently 42%)?

Cheers

Edit: I got it up to 99% Spanish, still nothing. I think it might be a bug due to Cordoba being the last Moorish city when I conquered it - the Vikings had already taken Marrakech.

It's a shame - the small core has really restricted my expansion.

Sounds like something is definitely goofy under the hood because this is highly irregular. I’ve only ever known reaching Renaissance as the trigger for core expansion but I can’t recall a game in which I hadn’t already taken Cordoba. But even if expelling Moors is a condition you’ve fulfilled both.

EDIT: Son of a gun. I had a look at Perioids.py and sure enough I see a line that looks like the Moors need to be alive. I’d for sure advise officially bringing this to the boss’s attention in the Bug Reports thread. Hehe have a save game ready.

While we’re on the topic, my super-duper-sweaty-detailed-very-official 1.17 Spain Monarch guide will finally be published early this evening. You *will* (muhaha) conquer Cordoba and subjugate the Moors by around 1100AD thereby avoiding the present issue entirely.

EDIT: I responded to wrong goshdarn post! Deleting later.

 

[SultanRedSnake]

Spain UHV is easier than England!
In regent difficulty and epic speed at least.

Oviedo has better production than Santiago. Santiago had to compete its tiles with Portugal.

Krak Des Chevalier isnt mandatory, Cordoba lose Islam in 1200 so you wont likely to finish it in time without Great Engineer.
Building monastery and spreading Islam to Madrid is also slow and unreliable way.

Rome is always prioritized before Cordoba. 3 Trebuchet is sufficient but time is tight and im not sure on the best build order for each city. I wonder if training Catapult is better due to faster build time.

Barcelona will flip themselves to Spain later on, but i forgot when. I don't think it worth the wait either.

Should I go for Great Merchant instead of Great Engineer early on?

Also does anyone have recommendation where are the good spots on South America besides the eastern coasts?

My monarch guide will be up later if you’re eager to level-up. Meanwhile just wanted to chime in. I’ve never tried Oviedo; genuinely interested. I agree that Krak is no longer necessary since you can secure gold and silver through vassals.

I’d only contend with going for Rome first, at least on Monarch. Moors are now near-guaranteed to build La Mezquita and early ; so instead of a proper army they kindly make a gift for the player. If you get it before Expansion area expires you get no unrest or pop loss at no cost as well. HRE/France only gets Rome early in a noticeable minority of games now so there’s no rush. You’ll be able to take it immediately after Cordoba and you’ll be bringing Level 3 bombards. Even if you’re late and Italians spawn, they don’t OB with anyone and you’re going to conquer them anyway. Romes shrine gold isnt all that crucial to early game. Or just use a few cogs.

I’m a bit puzzled by your comment about Barcelona; it looks like you don’t try to conquer it but wait for flip? Clarify please? Barcelona is also an expansion city so again free conquest. No siege needed just a lucky roll of the dice.

The GP question kinda depends on which city you use, but all things equal a GM would be preferable both for deficit research and upgrading units. No wonders are critical to the campaign and a properly setup Madrid can crank out El Escorial in 10 turns anyway.

The neat part about settling South America: you don’t! Not en masse anyway. Spain needs to settle literally exactly One City in the New World lolz. I’ve come to prefer Cartagena de Indias for the gold and canal. There are a handful of potentially strong production cities like Caracas and Buenos Aires but they’re just redundant at this point.

 

[WhiteEyes]

My monarch guide will be up later if you’re eager to level-up. Meanwhile just wanted to chime in. I’ve never tried Oviedo; genuinely interested. I agree that Krak is no longer necessary since you can secure gold and silver through vassals.

I’d only contend with going for Rome first, at least on Monarch. Moors are now near-guaranteed to build La Mezquita and early ; so instead of a proper army they kindly make a gift for the player. If you get it before Expansion area expires you get no unrest or pop loss at no cost as well. HRE/France only gets Rome early in a noticeable minority of games now so there’s no rush. You’ll be able to take it immediately after Cordoba and you’ll be bringing Level 3 bombards. Even if you’re late and Italians spawn, they don’t OB with anyone and you’re going to conquer them anyway. Romes shrine gold isnt all that crucial to early game. Or just use a few cogs.

I’m a bit puzzled by your comment about Barcelona; it looks like you don’t try to conquer it but wait for flip? Clarify please? Barcelona is also an expansion city so again free conquest. No siege needed just a lucky roll of the dice.

The GP question kinda depends on which city you use, but all things equal a GM would be preferable both for deficit research and upgrading units. No wonders are critical to the campaign and a properly setup Madrid can crank out El Escorial in 10 turns anyway.

The neat part about settling South America: you don’t! Not en masse anyway. Spain needs to settle literally exactly One City in the New World lolz. I’ve come to prefer Cartagena de Indias for the gold and canal. There are a handful of potentially strong production cities like Caracas and Buenos Aires but they’re just redundant at this point.

Thanks for your advice, i'll check your new guide later (not that i really need it in lower difficulty lmao)

No, i won't wait for Barcelona flip. I conquer it after Marseille. I just wondering when their flip date is. Barcelona is a pretty good whip target so i need them early.

Yes Santo Domingo and Cartagena de India are always my settling choice. The region south of Brazil doesnt really interesting to settle. But i want historical expansion for my game.

La Mezquita never completed before 1000AD so i have lot of time to make Catapult and attack Rome. Somehow they lose their 2 Heavy Spearman pretty often so Catapult is sufficient in Regent.
Did Rome have more army in a higher difficulty?

 

[SultanRedSnake]

(not that i really need it in lower difficulty lmao

Have you considered Monarch, silly?

No, i won't wait for Barcelona flip. I conquer it after Marseille. I just wondering when their flip date is. Barcelona is a pretty good whip target so i need them early.

I still think I’m missing something. You conquer Marseille even though it flips almost immediately? Btw cities flip one turn after civ birth.

Brazil doesnt really interesting to settle. But i want historical expansion for my game.

Probably not needed for goals (esp. on regent) but Buenos Aires (2W of fish) can grow quickly and produce starting in 1600 when resources spawn. Even Montevideo only two tiles away (1N of fish) can be decent. If you decide to play on indefinitely after 1700 Buenos Aires can reach S-tier either for pure production or cottages.

FYI resource spawn dates can be found in Python/Rescources.py.

La Mezquita never completed before 1000

Funny, a rare case of lower difficulty presenting a setback. What’s the significance of 1000AD here?

Did Rome have more army in a higher difficulty?

If it doesn’t spawn with more units, higher difficulties will definitely amount to more units esp. since Indies start with Citizenship and will buy defenders if threatened. And Rome has Flavian Amphitheater. Don’t be surprised if suddenly War Elephants start appearing in Italy. In one rare game Indies counter-attacked France and took Marseille.

 

[WhiteEyes]

Have you considered Monarch, silly?

I still think I’m missing something. You conquer Marseille even though it flips almost immediately? Btw cities flip one turn after civ birth.

FYI resource spawn dates can be found in Python/Rescources.py.

Funny, a rare case of lower difficulty presenting a setback. What’s the significance of 1000AD here?

Perhaps because i play in 1.16 without those birth protection things, Marseille can be razed before France spawn.

I wonder if Moor build La Mezquita sooner in 1.17?
In one of my game they completed La Mezquita before i could gather enough army to strike Rome (still somewhere in the 1000sAD).

 

[SultanRedSnake]

Perhaps because i play in 1.16 without those birth protection things, Marseille can be razed before France spawn.

I wonder if Moor build La Mezquita sooner in 1.17?
In one of my game they completed La Mezquita before i could gather enough army to strike Rome (still somewhere in the 1000sAD).

Bruh, get with the times! 1.16 is deddddd. The Moors now *always* build it and this was a deliberate change for 1.17. I know sometimes prior versions of games are preferred but I promise there's no reason not to be on latest version. Leoreth just keeps making this thing better and better.

 

[WhiteEyes]

Bruh, get with the times! 1.16 is deddddd. The Moors now *always* build it and this was a deliberate change for 1.17. I know sometimes prior versions of games are preferred but I promise there's no reason not to be on latest version. Leoreth just keeps making this thing better and better.

Sure, once i have the time and proper internet XD
Feels like i updated the mod only some month ago, turns out i'm 2 years behind the current version.