[Vote] (1-18) Proposed Replacements For Trailblazer Double Movement Promotions

[ma_kuh]

Thanks for the insights. I'll try not to revive that old thread too much.

 

[Tekamthi]

I abstain btw, even though one of these is my proposal.

There’s a large contingent of people on the forum who think that scouts moving slower in unencumbering terrain — like open plains and roads —is dumb. This has never bothered me much, but I’m not in love with to the current system either. As the guy that did the last scout promotion rework though, I feel I have a pretty good handle on their promo lines and submitted what I thought a good balance would be in that new paradigm.

some discussion elsewhere recently, on this topic and others, has raised the prospect of making certain promos mutually exclusive. To this end, I note there is a GameEvents.UnitCanHavePromotion() hook in VP lua api

While I have your attention, have you ever used this in any mod? Comment briefly on how it works? ie can i use this to return false when unit has corresponding promo, and block promo selection?

 

[pineappledan]

I have never used it

 

[Tekamthi]

I have never used it

thanks for reply.

from your proposal, and my understanding of how things (used to?) work under the hood, will there be some changes to VP tables? ie whereas there is/was a table entry for 'double movement in x terrain' (or half move or extra move), there is no table entry for 'ignores terrain x penalty', rather only an option for 'ignores terrain penalties'? Am I out-of-date in my knowledge or does this proposal imply corresponding tables will be modified to include this field?

Also, the no attack penalty over river, or while embarked, these are currently bundled together iirc.. or one is bundled with something else (ie river crossing w river attacks). Does proposal imply modders will have control over these separately?

Just curious what is becoming available for modding, if anything.

 

[pineappledan]

there is no table entry for 'ignores terrain x penalty', rather only an option for 'ignores terrain penalties'? Am I out-of-date in my knowledge or does this proposal imply corresponding tables will be modified to include this field?

Ignoring specific terrain costs will be new code, so more new toys for modders to play with. It probably can be added to the feature and terrain movement tables, which currently have entries for double and half move.

Also, the no attack penalty over river, or while embarked, these are currently bundled together iirc.. or one is bundled with something else (ie river crossing w river attacks). Does proposal imply modders will have control over these separately?

They already exist separately

 

[Tekamthi]

They already exist separately

okay, i've been looking at a Civ5Units.xml from a modpack from over a year ago as reference, I am either out of date or had overlooked this previously.

it would be nice if the feature and terrain tables each had the same options within, though now that I say this, isn't this the subject of another proposal?

edit: confused with another similar-but-different request.. domain bonuses.. nvm

 

[Rekk]

Ignoring specific terrain costs will be new code, so more new toys for modders to play with. It probably can be added to the feature and terrain movement tables, which currently have entries for double and half move.

tbh, it's very likely that this would just get implemented using double move.

 

[pineappledan]

tbh, it's very likely that this would just get implemented using double move.

I hope that's not the case. I would like to keep double movement as a potential ability that stacks with ignore movement.

For example, unstacking the double move from woodsman and TBI would mean that Iroquois recon units would benefit from both promotions. Likewise, the Inuit currently get double movement in Snow, which could stack with TBII That would be a nice improvement for those civs.

 

[Rekk]

Iroquois wouldn't. They already ignore forest movement costs by treating it as roads.

 

[pineappledan]

Kind of. For the most part. Road movement only works if you are moving between 2 Forest tiles, so it has some weird interactions. Iroquois still rely on the double movement from Woodsman to get onto the first forest tile without spending extra moves.

• For scout units currently, this means they only spend 0.5 moves to get onto the forest roads.
• Non-scout units spend 1 move getting onto flat forest (half of 2), but they spend 1.5 moves getting onto forest hills (half of 3).

So Ignore movement in forest would be slightly weaker for scout units that can move onto forest and benefit from both double movement AND ignore terrain. Ignore movement would actually be stronger for regular units, because it means they could spend less moves going into forest hills.

 

[Recursive]

i'm not complaining, but this looks to me to be an amendment, and such is verboten right now

It's implied in the proposal, but I added it for extra clarity.

 

[zeofig]

I like the current promotions. They are fun. They let you move through the terrain in more interesting ways.

 

[Slyceth]

I have not much to say about this, but I have full faith in pineappledan's calculations and rebalancing suggestions.

 

[azum4roll]

I like the current scout promotions. Double movement combined with ignore terrain cost in normally hard to traverse terrains makes them unique, and especially helps them outrun barbarians in forests/desert early on.

Withdraw chance is a no-go.

 

[Stalker0]

unless I'm mistaken, PADs proposal means recon units will no longer cross rivers freely, so important to consider that.

 

[Rekk]

Ignore movement penalties on forest, jungle, and hills

Ignore movement penalties from desert, snow, marshes, and rivers.

@pineappledan
What does "Ignore movement penalties in" mean? What happens when a fresh recon unit with Trailblazer I enters a desert hill?

 

[pineappledan]

@pineappledan
What does "Ignore movement penalties in" mean? What happens when a fresh recon unit with Trailblazer I enters a desert hill?

The same thing "ignore movement penalties" always has: It costs 1 movement point to move in that terrain

 

[Rekk]

Ignore movement penalties never cared about specific terrain before, so I disagree that your intent is obvious.

 

[pineappledan]

It does in the case of the Incas

 

[Rekk]

It does in the case of the Incas

Ah, you are correct. (Their walk on mountains ability does the same thing).