1.18 released

[Azoth]

The main bug left that I know about is Villages and Workshops destroying Flood Plains but that will will be quite an extensive fix, affecting numerous files. It would thus require a reinstall and is likely to be incompatible with current saved games (I'll have to check) - may be best to leave it until 1.19.

Disappearing Flood Plains are a serious issue. If they cannot be fixed until 1.19, then I would disallow Flood Plains Cottages and Workshops in 1.18. It's no fun playing against an AI with ruined desert cities. Flood Plains Farms and Quarries would still be available; maybe you could allow Plantations, too. Either way, I think the bug does require some immediate response.

 

[Nightstar]

It's also worth noting that when (or if) you get into the Industrial era, oil wells will have the same problem.

For the village/workshop part of the issue, wouldn't the simplest fix be to simply remove the "also permitted next to fresh water" aspect from cottages and workshops? Isn't that the only thing allowing them to be built on non-grasslands/plains at all?

 

[Jarlaxe Baenre]

I fixed the village/town flood plains issue. I just had to add two lines to a python file.
Search 'flood' and you'll see it.
I was, however, unable to fix the workshop issue. I added in something identical to the marsh check, but it just made my interface disappear and the tech screen pop up when I loaded my game.
I don't remember enough python, but add a check after this for floodplains as well. This is shortly before where you go if you search 'flood':

if not pPlot.getFeatureType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('FEATURE_SWAMP'):
pPlot.setFeatureType(gc.getInfoTypeForString('FEATURE_POLLUTION'), 1)

I don't know how to make it check for flood plains as well.

Edit the second: Currently testing based on examination of python coding elsewhere in the file.

Edit the third: Yes! Fixed the issue.

 

[Xyth]

I'm working on a full solution for this, it seems pillaging certain improvements is also destroying Flood Plains and potentially Wetlands. Quite a few files need adjusting so it will need a be a full download and reinstall rather than a patch. It's not breaking saved games so far (may change) but it obviously can't restore already destroyed features.

EDIT: Nope, this fix will break saved game compatibility after all.

 

[Xyth]

1.18 has been reuploaded with all patches and the Flood Plains and pillaging fixes applied. Patch has been removed from the first post as its no longer necessary. At this stage any further bugfixes will need to wait til 1.19 unless they're absolutely critical.

If you've downloaded 1.18 prior to the timestamp on this post, please redownload and reinstall. Note that this will break saved game compatibility, so finish your current game first if you're enjoying it. Once again, sorry for any inconvenience and I promise to have a better release process in place for 1.19.

 

[Boggy]

As your speaking of absolutely critical bugs...
I think I've got another one, or maybe I'm just overlooking something. Well, look at this screenshot.

That's one city (pop 1) with 74 Base Production, and I don't know where they come from. Gold+city tile are 5, 6 from buildings and 3 from Rio Tinto. All in all, 14, but surely not 74. Maybe a bug with the corporations? I've got this in every city. My production graph is very interesting, too.

No Golden Age, just Rio Tinti and some factories (only +25%, I haven't yet got energy), they don't quadruple my production. I can't explain that. Have I missed something?
I attached the save, too, but it was made before the last upload.

 

[Azoth]

If you have to issue a patch to fix the bug Boggy found, you may also want to tone down the commerce yield from corporate headquarters. It isn't a bug, but it is a balance issue:

In BtS, headquarters produce 4 per franchise, but their yield is completely offset by corporate maintenance costs, which can run over 10 per corporation per city, even with Courthouses. In HR, maintenance costs have been eliminated, so the commerce yield from headquarters is pure profit; and 5 or 5 per franchise can get completely out of hand. Assuming a 10-city empire, we're looking at 50 per turn base; combined with various gold multipliers - Bank, Stock Exchange, Bureaucracy civic - a single corporation can fund the expenses of an entire civilization! Alternatively, 50 per turn base will, in most cases, overshadow the output of every other building and Wonder in a city combined. The disparity is even greater with larger empires and foreign franchises.

I would reduce the yield of all headquarters to 1 or 2 , , or per franchise. (If you aren't issuing another patch, then this can wait until 1.19.)

 

[Boggy]

In BtS, headquarters produce 4 per franchise, but their yield is completely offset by corporate maintenance costs, which can run over 10 per corporation per city, even with Courthouses. In HR, maintenance costs have been eliminated, so the commerce yield from headquarters is pure profit; and 5 or 5 per franchise can get completely out of hand. Assuming a 10-city empire, we're looking at 50 per turn base; combined with various gold multipliers - Bank, Stock Exchange, Bureaucracy civic - a single corporation can fund the expenses of an entire civilization! Alternatively, 50 per turn base will, in most cases, overshadow the output of every other building and Wonder in a city combined. The disparity is even greater with larger empires and foreign franchises.

I would reduce the yield of all headquarters to 1 or 2 , , or per franchise. (If you aren't issuing another patch, then this can wait until 1.19.)

I agree. In this game, the East India Company Headquarters (5 per city and the earliest corporation, by the way) provides 85 (=17 cities), multiplied by Grocer, Bank, Stock Exchange and Holy Office (until Civil Rights), I get 255 per round. The yield I get in every city is 2, so I get 34. The Headquarters is much stronger than everything else. Ok, East India Company with rare ressources and therefore a stronger Headquarters is maybe a bad example. But the other headquarters provide similar high bonuses. At least, that's a reason to spread the corporation in foreign cities.

a single corporation can fund the expenses of an entire civilization!

Yeah, in my case, I get +265 at 100% and I'm not even in Aristocracy or Confederation, but in Democracy (I need a merchant to found Taiyo which will provide even more money). Ok, I've got the Temple of Solomon (also in the Stock Exchange city) and the Spiral Minaret, too, but it's still too much money. You shouldn't be able to research at 100% without losing gold.

 

[Xyth]

Heh, I knew I was being too optimistic before there'd been feedback on the corporations. That definitely comes under the category of absolutely critical bug, looking into it. I'll tone down the HQs too.

Do you think the happiness and healthy penalties could perhaps be doubled? Also, how's the rate of resource discovery been going?

 

[Azoth]

Do you think the happiness and healthy penalties could perhaps be doubled?

Yes, because many, many sources of health and happiness are available by the Industrial Era.

Also, how's the rate of resource discovery been going?

I've played a total of 150 turns over two games on Normal Speed and haven't discovered a single resource. (Both games were abandoned after patch changes.) I'm not really surprised; I've played many BtS games without discovering a single Mine resource, and 1 in 7500 odds are not so far from 1 in 10000. HR maps spawn with plenty of resources so I don't really mind. I know of only one other mod that allows nearly every resource to be discovered via improvements: Master of Mana. (http://www.masterofmana.com/, Windows only mod) They've set resource discovery to 1 in 2000; but starting resources tend to be scarcer on their map scripts.

 

[Boggy]

Do you think the happiness and healthy penalties could perhaps be doubled? Also, how's the rate of resource discovery been going?

Increasing the penalties sounds fine.
The ressource discovery, let me think... In this one game, I discovered two ressources in pastures (but I haven't worked them in the beginning because I prefer slavery. Pastures without Argrarianism and technologies are very weak, of course), but some more in my plantations (as I said, I used slavery and worked many plantations). Maybe a ressource in every third or fourth plantation I built. At least five or six on the whole (I can't load it anymore). I think that's ok.

 

[Xyth]

Found the issue but unfortunately it's going to require yet another redownload. So if there's any other urgent bugs or balance issues you've noticed let me know quickly.

 

[Azoth]

Found the issue but unfortunately it's going to require yet another redownload. So if there's any other urgent bugs or balance issues you've noticed let me know quickly.

Here's one: any improvements that can be built on Desert can also be built on Flood Plains. Flood Plains Quarries I can accept; Flood Plains Oil Wells, not so much.
Speaking of which, we should probably call them simply "Wells" since they can also harvest Gas.
But I would rename the Well building "Water Well" to avoid confusion.

 

[Simon_Jester]

Why can't you accept Flood Plains Oil Wells? They're all over the place in Mesopotamia...

 

[Xyth]

I assume its due to balance issues rather than realism issues. Either way, I cannot restrict them being built on Flood Plains outright - it's done by specifying which improvements destroy the underlying feature when built and which do not. There's no option to disallow them altogether.

The closest option is to make it so Quarries and/or Wells destroy Flood Plains when built atop them, but it requires a technology (i.e Hydraulics) to do so. Or we could just increase the Well's food penalty. Is it necessary though? Assuming no resource, Flood Plain Wells currently provide 2, 2, 1, 1. The river commerce is lost to pollution but can be restored by a Highway. There are no techs or civics that can boost them further. This doesn't strike me as being overpowered by that stage of the game, and you're giving up a prime Farm tile.

Incidentally, I'm giving Villages, Towns, and Workshops +1 by rivers. This is to restore the regular river commerce bonus that gets removed when pollution is placed on a tile. I don't think Mines or Wells should have this compensated.

I'm changing Corporate HQ commerce to range from 1 to 3 (down from 2 to 5), and I'm doubling corporate unhappiness and unhealthiness. I'll leave resource discovery at 7500 for now, need to hear feedback on this from the guys who like the larger maps on slow speeds. Could be quite a different experience there.

Finally, it turns out there were two bugs causing the excessive production seen in Boggy's game. One was triggered by civic changes, the other by conquering cities. Was quite hard to track down. I've fixed them, and also the city screen which wasn't showing that the extra yield was from corporations. Upload will commence shortly.

 

[Xyth]

Latest edition of 1.18 is up. Hopefully the last...

 

[Azoth]

I assume its due to balance issues rather than realism issues. Either way, I cannot restrict them being built on Flood Plains outright - it's done by specifying which improvements destroy the underlying feature when built and which do not. There's no option to disallow them altogether.

The closest option is to make it so Quarries and/or Wells destroy Flood Plains when built atop them, but it requires a technology (i.e Hydraulics) to do so. Or we could just increase the Well's food penalty. Is it necessary though? Assuming no resource, Flood Plain Wells currently provide 2, 2, 1, 1. The river commerce is lost to pollution but can be restored by a Highway. There are no techs or civics that can boost them further. This doesn't strike me as being overpowered by that stage of the game, and you're giving up a prime Farm tile.

Yes, my main concern was balance: not in terms of yield, but rather the sheer number of tiles that could support Wells. Oil and Gas should be relatively rare, yes? But you're right; Flood Plains are prime candidates for Towns, Farms, and Workshops. Few players would replace them with Wells come the Industrial Era.

Incidentally, I'm giving Villages, Towns, and Workshops +1 by rivers. This is to restore the regular river commerce bonus that gets removed when pollution is placed on a tile. I don't think Mines or Wells should have this compensated

Good idea. I hadn't thought about that. It makes sense that Mines and Wells pollute nearby rivers, cancelling out their commerce bonus.

 

[soylentx]

I think the Religious Victory is broken. I just had a small island nation with two cities achieve victory without the 80% requirement being met. I'll upload a save file for you if you tell me how.

 

[Xyth]

I think the Religious Victory is broken. I just had a small island nation with two cities achieve victory without the 80% requirement being met. I'll upload a save file for you if you tell me how.

Autosaves on OSX: ~/Documents/Civilization IV Beyond the Sword/Saves/Single/Auto/
Autosaves on Windows: ~\MyDocuments\MyGames\Beyond the Sword\Saves\Single\Auto\

Find one that is a few turns beforehand and you can attach it a post with the 'Manage Attachents' button, one of the options below Submit and Preview.

 

[soylentx]

I started a new game, so I only have a save made the turn of the win. I hope it's helpful. Sorry.