1.22 development

[platyping]

Hmm. Does the advisor show Hannibal's EP output returning to more normal levels on subsequent turns? Or does it remain high? Not really sure what could be causing this, but my first instinct is that it's a UI miscalculation of some sort. I've not made any changes to the Espionage Advisor. It's the one from BUG, but I'll probably replace it with Platyping's version at some point.

Why not check the WB and see if he really got the EP boost one turn later.
If he really got the boost, then it is not a UI problem.

@DH
Actually, localText is defined as CyTranslator() in all files in BTS, just like gc = CyGlobalContext(). It is not a BUG thing. But I find that it does not make any sense, and change all back to CyTranslator() as some are using CyTranslator() while some use localText. Defining gc = CyGlobalContext() makes sense as gc is used frequently, so simplifying it makes coding easier. localText is almost as long as CyTranslator() so I don't see a point of it and removed it from all my files.


@Goody Huts
1 thing I noticed in Goody Huts original codes by Kathy is that they are placed on Game Start. This means they will all be wiped on Map Regeneration.

 

[Xyth]

Why not check the WB and see if he really got the EP boost one turn later.
If he really got the boost, then it is not a UI problem.

Nightstar, it would be great if you're able to check this. I actually haven't kept a copy of 1.22dev1, so I wouldn't be able to load your saved game.

@DH
Actually, localText is defined as CyTranslator() in all files in BTS, just like gc = CyGlobalContext(). It is not a BUG thing. But I find that it does not make any sense, and change all back to CyTranslator() as some are using CyTranslator() while some use localText. Defining gc = CyGlobalContext() makes sense as gc is used frequently, so simplifying it makes coding easier. localText is almost as long as CyTranslator() so I don't see a point of it and removed it from all my files.

Yeah, it's odd. No shorter and only serves to make code a little less interpretable. They don't even use it consistently. ArtFileMgr is the other one that irks me. Sure, it's 4 less characters to type, but not worth the loss of clarity in my opinion. I change it back whenever I see it too.

@Goody Huts
1 thing I noticed in Goody Huts original codes by Kathy is that they are placed on Game Start. This means they will all be wiped on Map Regeneration.

Yep. In HR they're placed by a call from the mapscripts themselves, so not a problem (I presume, not tested).

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I'd already made patches available for this issue and the one above. I appreciate the report regardless though. For future reference, you can check the Troubleshooting thread when you encounter a bug or a crash. Any 'between version' fixes I make are linked to in the first post. Always worth checking there first.

Thanks I could not figure out where to look for bugs and fixes.

I haven't looked at C2C for a while, were they better?

We don't have islands or atolls so I am interested in them but I am not sure they will look good. I will probably use them and your Marine Park improvement at some stage.

I find your reefs almost impossible to see, but I expect that is an age thing.

Only thing I'm not happy with about my implementation of Goody Huts on Islands is how free units are handled. They're ported to the nearest valid land plot, which is fine if near the coast, but a bit unpredictable and unrealistic if out in the open ocean. I need to go back and do some further refinements to that at some point.

Yes Goody Islands by Kathy are a very good idea but has a few problems. I find I can't see them on your maps so I will probably keep our graphic for them and see if I can replace them with an island or atoll when they are searched. I have done something similar before.

We did look at replacing the worker with a work boat but did not come to any conclusion on the other units. We also need to go back and look at it sometime.

@Goody Huts
1 thing I noticed in Goody Huts original codes by Kathy is that they are placed on Game Start. This means they will all be wiped on Map Regeneration.

In C2C I think we moved it into the post map script generation module so that when the map is regenerated so are the Goody Islands. Same for the Natural Wonders.

 

[platyping]

We did look at replacing the worker with a work boat but did not come to any conclusion on the other units. We also need to go back and look at it sometime.

Just do a loop through all available naval units the barb(hostile), player(freebies) can have with its existing techs and choose the best ones? Using hard coded unit types does make the process faster, but as you have pointed out with the removal of private unit, it causes problems if you forgot to change the respective python codes.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Just do a loop through all available naval units the barb(hostile), player(freebies) can have with its existing techs and choose the best ones? Using hard coded unit types does make the process faster, but as you have pointed out with the removal of private unit, it causes problems if you forgot to change the respective python codes.

Probably the best solution.

 

[Nightstar]

Nightstar, it would be great if you're able to check this. I actually haven't kept a copy of 1.22dev1, so I wouldn't be able to load your saved game.

I put the game on hold so as not to lose the appropriate auto-saves in case you did want a saved game. I'll try to test it tonight.

 

[Nightstar]

Okay, I did some testing and the results were... weird. It looks like the problem is with his capital, all the other cities appeared normal, but there was *something* seriously wrong with Carthage itself.

I took a bunch of screenshots that I hope will mostly speak for themselves.

First is the WB screen for Carthage on the turn that listed the ridiculous espionage output. Note the "Base Production" and "Base Commerce" lines.

Second is his second city on the same turn for comparison.

Third is the Espionage Advisor for the next turn, where he appears to be in anarchy again.

Fourth is the WB screen for Carthage on that turn. This one's even weirder that the one from the previous turn (note all three of the base yield lines), but this time it doesn't seem to actually be applied (which the first one definitely *was*, I heavily invested in espionage on him in future turns to get infiltration again, and his espionage graph line went up like a rocket for that one turn).

Fifth through seventh are map shots of Carthage and two of his nearby cities on the first turn and the two following. He appears to be in anarchy again for the latter two, as he was for the turn *prior* to everything going wonky.

Last image is from about ten turns later, when it appears that it may be happening again, albeit on a lesser scale. This one *might* be normal if the AI noticed I was pouring on the espionage and decided to counter, but maybe not.

 

[platyping]

Use the WB and give yourself enough Espionage points against him to view the city details in real game outside of WB. See if the data in the city screen is indeed as absurd as what is seen in the WB.

If you are not familiar with the WB, just give yourself enough great spies to infiltrate the city to view it.

 

[Nightstar]

I'll try that tonight.

Edit: Tried it, screenshot appended.

 

[Nightstar]

I dug a bit deeper, and tracked the extra output to specialists of all things. Then I narrowed it down more specifically to the settled Great Generals. *Something* added absurd yields to his Great Military Instructors.

I don't know if it was something in the code, or just a slightly corrupted save file, or what, but regardless I don't think there's anything further I can do to track down the *specific* cause on my end.

 

[Xyth]

Woah, crazy! Really not sure what could be happening there. Does anything similar happen to other settled Great People when if you add some via WorldBuilder or is it just the Military Instructor?

 

[Nightstar]

Woah, crazy! Really not sure what could be happening there. Does anything similar happen to other settled Great People when if you add some via WorldBuilder or is it just the Military Instructor?

I gave Carthage one free specialist of every other type, from basic Citizen to Great Spy. All worked completely normally.

I think I'm going to have to abandon this game now, unfortunately. I've removed all his Great Military Instructors, but the tooltips still list the ridiculous outputs, so the problem will come right back the next time he settles a Great General (or captures a city that already has one). Plus I suspect he's got already enough tech overflow from it to push straight from late Renaissance to Future Tech at a rate of one tech per turn, and I can't figure out any way to fix that.

 

[Xyth]

I gave Carthage one free specialist of every other type, from basic Citizen to Great Spy. All worked completely normally.

I think I'm going to have to abandon this game now, unfortunately. I've removed all his Great Military Instructors, but the tooltips still list the ridiculous outputs, so the problem will come right back the next time he settles a Great General (or captures a city that already has one). Plus I suspect he's got already enough tech overflow from it to push straight from late Renaissance to Future Tech at a rate of one tech per turn, and I can't figure out any way to fix that.

Have to say I'm at a loss as to what could be causing it. Sorry your game has ended this way. Hopefully it was a one-off glitch or save corruption and we'll never see it again. Thanks for all your testing, it will be most helpful should this occur again.

 

[cpease61]

This is an issue that may be solved with the new religion system.

When i pick altruism and let the computer decide how many doctors to put in each city in often puts the entire, or close to it, population into Doctor.

One side effect is i start pumping out Great Doctors and a truly alarming rate.

I have take to saving them and using them to build hospitals when those become available

 

[Xyth]

This is an issue that may be solved with the new religion system.

When i pick altruism and let the computer decide how many doctors to put in each city in often puts the entire, or close to it, population into Doctor.

One side effect is i start pumping out Great Doctors and a truly alarming rate.

I have take to saving them and using them to build hospitals when those become available

I've been looking into this, and how the AI values specialists in general. Doctor specialists are just far too strong at +3. This also seems to be part of the reason why the AI doesn't use Great People for golden ages as much anymore (other part is that it prefers using them to discover techs, and all great people can discover techs now).

So I'm going to try Doctor specialists at 1, 1 instead. This seems like quite a massive nerf, but it effectively gives you a choice between giving up 2 for 3 (Scientist) or 1 for 1 (Doctor). Both are poor trades because food is so powerful, but this is true of all specialists really. It's the that makes them valuable. The Great Doctor specialist will change to 2, 3. Spy specialists are also a little too strong, particularly in the eyes of the AI. They'll change to be just 3, no . Great Spy specialists won't change.

Incidentally, the 'unlimited doctors' and 'unlimited scientists' bonuses will be back when I eventually add a new 6th civic category to replace the religious civics.