Charis said:Whipping (Despotic Rushing)
[This one got nerfed quite a bit in the 1.17f patch, but it's still useful]
The one value to remember here is 39. For 1 to 39 shields remaining to rush a structure or unit, the cost is the same, one citizen. For each 20 shields after that it's an additional citizen. There are two implications to this: i. Target pop-rushing with as close to 39 shields as possible, and no more. ii. The next 'magic' number is 79. From 40-59 the cost is two citizens, and for 60-79 shields the cost to rush in one turn is three citizens. BUT, by taking one extra turn that cost can often be reduced to two citizens. How? If there is unit available that costs 39 shields, switch to this unit and rush it. Immediately (or at least before the turn is over), change back to the desired unit, which will have 40 shields left. Wait one more turn, for the number left to be 39 or less, and rush the unit to completion. This can be chained down if there are intermediate units to build, e.g. 119 -> 80, wait for 79, rush to 40, wait one, rush to complete. Three citizens instead of five. In games where I've been despot whipping like mad, I've done things like purposefully build NO library (40 shields for scientific civs) in my cities so that I would always have a handy 39 to rush. If you have NO 40 shield unit to build, it's impossible to get 79 complete in two turns and save a citizen.
mikezang said:Here is answer for your question: Charis' Guide to Civ3 Micromanagement (1.17f)
Puppeteer said:20 I believe, but rush costs are doubled (?) if there are no shields in the box already. I tried to find the War Academy article about pop rushing but don't see it.
Thanks for your info.SJ Frank said:Charis' guide is a bit out dated. Forced labor was really powerful then. The later patches tuned it down quite a bit.
Here is the current value, straight from the C3C editor (yes, that means you can change it too )
Each citizen, starting from the first, is worth 20 shields.
Wai_Wai said:It seems the actual rushing forumla is a bit complicated than a simple conversion rate.
I tried to pop-rush a worker (10 shields normally, 5 shields in accerlated production mode) when there's no shield in the box. I couldn't rush at all. My city is size 3. One citizen is worth 20 shields, so even if the rush costs are dobuled, I should be still able to rush it.
I wonder rushing is impossible if there's no shield in the box (maybe it is used to avoid producing anything in 1 turn).
Puppeteer said:@mikezang, yes that is the article I was thinking of but didn't find it because "pop", "rush" and "whip" aren't in the title. I could never get 39 shields per citizen, so that confused me.
Now that I think about it I'm probably thinking of SMAC where the last few minerals (shileds) are 2 energy (gold) each. I used to do a lot of partial accelerations (hurries) in SMAC so I was calculating values a lot whereas in CivIII I just hit the rush button and decide if the given amount is worth it.eldar said:Rushing has always been 4g/shield. Are you confused with unit upgrades in Vanilla/PtW, where it's 2g/shield?
Wai_Wai said:To sum up, the rules of whipping / pop-rush are (C3C):
- 1 citizen is worth 20 shields in pop-rush
- no pop-rush is allowed if the shield box is completely empty
- no more than 50% of your citizens can be killed in a single pop-rush.
- however you may pop-rush several times at the same turn (by the tricks of switching to different production order) and citizen loss can be higher than 50 of total population
Confirm if possible.
Any more rules to add?