1 Dead, 2 injured in SpecOps raid on Baalbek

nivi

Call me Ishmael
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It not yet posted on the english YNET, but it will soon be updated.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3292974,00.html


This is realy discouraging, I don't know who to trust anymore. IDF spoksmen or Al-Manar, it seems like they tell the truth more then IDF does, at first it was "Al Manar says Hizballah folis IDF operation", and then IDF confirms the operation, says it was succeful, afterwards says it suffered casualties.

What a sorry ass leadership we got...:sad:


Edit: And now lebanese saying we killed 3 hizballah fighters, ugh.
 
Commando Raids/Special Operations are high risk and casualties are inevitable even in those that are successful. Entebbe was a success but there were several dead (one military and several civilians) and several wounded.

Usually in this type of operation the true facts about the objectives are not always presented so it is often impossible to judge success or failure. Hezbollah and Hamas will always say that they have foiled Israeli operations even when the truth is otherwise.

It would be interesting to know just which group carried out the raid.
 
Of course there are casualties in commando raids, thats why you send them in only when doing it from the air is not going to do the job. Like entebbe, bombing from the air would have been pretty dumb, but to stop trnsportation of weapons, air would have been fine. The only reason why air was not preferred was the "truce".
 
I was starting to wonder if the IDF made press releases, so far the BBC has mostly aired hezbollah broadcasts to keep muslims in the UK happy and according to them they dont seem to have lost a single terrorist/fighter. What a joke.
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5266688.stm

Beirut fury at 'ceasefire breach'

Lebanese PM Fouad Siniora has accused Israel of a "naked violation" of the five-day-old ceasefire, after a raid by Israeli commandos deep inside Lebanon.
The raid, in the eastern Bekaa Valley, left one Israeli dead and two injured.

Israel said it was trying to disrupt the movement of weapons from Iran and Syria to Hezbollah, and insisted the ceasefire was still intact.

The operation came hours after UN Secretary General Kofi Annan warned of a "fragile" situation on the ground.

The Israeli raid centred on the village of Bodai, west of the city of Baalbek, some 100km (60 miles) north of the Israeli border.

It is the first incident of its kind since the ceasefire came into effect.

Israeli helicopters are believed to have dropped off the commandos and two vehicles during the night.

The Israelis seem to have met more resistance than they expected, with one local fighter describing a gun battle lasting more than two hours, says the BBC's Jon Leyne at the scene.

Two helicopters landed in a cornfield and took away the soldiers, while Israeli fighter jets circled overhead, witnesses say.

There is speculation locally is that the Israelis may have been trying to capture a senior Hezbollah figure who lives in the village, our correspondent adds.

Lebanese sources earlier told Reuters agency that three militants died in the incident.

Government responses

In Beirut, the raid prompted an angry response from Mr Siniora.

"It is a naked violation of the cessation of hostilities declared by the Security Council," he told reporters.

He said a complaint had been made to visiting UN envoys about the operation.

But Israel insisted it had not breached the ceasefire.

"We had specific information of arms transfers taking place and we acted to prevent that violation, so that violation is not from the Israeli side - we were responding to a violation of the resolution by Hezbollah," said Israeli spokesman Mark Regev.

Israel has said it will continue to carry out such actions until an expanded international military force is in place to prevent Hezbollah's re-armament.

The resolution which stopped the conflict said Israel should end all offensive military action and Hezbollah should end all attacks.


Reinforcements

Meanwhile, 50 French troops arrived in the Lebanese port of Naqoura, the first soldiers to bolster the UN peacekeeping force.

They are among 200 extra troops promised by France, as the UN struggles to build its expanded force.

The UN wants 3,500 troops on the ground speedily, to be increased later to 15,000. It says it is disappointed with the French contribution and wants other European nations to offer more help too.

In a separate development, an Israeli soldier was shot dead by a Palestinian gunman in the West Bank, the army said.

The gunman was then shot dead, officials say. The incident happened at a checkpoint near the city of Nablus.

I think this may turn out to be very damaging to the ceasefire, and it also shows yet again Israel's complete lack of respect for the international community.
 
Cease... Fire. What, did the Israelis misread it? Did they mistranslate it into "slightly less fighting"? Do they think that they can get away with not adhering to any agreements?

I'm afraid what little respect for the Israeli government I had has been lost.
 
North King said:
I'm afraid what little respect for the Israeli government I had has been lost.
They don't care about it so no fear of it affecting anything.

I'm not trying to condemn actions of Israel (rearmament is serious issue) but was this really necessary?
I mean did they achieve with this something so important that the cease-fire had to be jeopardized or did they just wait that nobody would care?
Or did they in fact count into the fact that cease-fire would end after this?

I'm out of words really, what was Israel again thinking?
"We won't use air raids, we use knives instead?"
 
If people would stop ribbing on Israel for a second, you will see who is at fault for this.

Lets review:

Disarmament of hizballax- X
Emargo on hizballah - X
Hizballah north of the Litani- X


Then why should Israel fulfill its end of the deal when we cleary stated:
"The cease-fire is based on U.N. resolution 1701 which calls for an international arms embargo against Hezbollah," Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev said on August 19. "In the absence of that presence, arms transfers to Hezbollah are a clear violation of 1701 and Israel is entitled to respond. When the international forces and the Lebanese Army are enforcing the embargo, Israeli action becomes superfluous


Not to mention that this resolution is so incerdibly vague that Israels actions could be described as defensive, which doesn't violates the resolution, nevertheless, I have no doubt that the world will once again condem us and not even mention hizballah.
 
Bozo Erectus said:
Its time to take Netanyahu out of storage again.

I fear that Lieberman might actualy be the next PM, with Bibi as defense minister. :mischief:

In birghter news, according to polls if the election was held today, Kadima would get about 40% of votes it got in the last election, which leads me to believe the opposition would try to pass a vote of no confidence.
 
You can have Lieberman, no problem. ;) Olmert blew it, his days are numbered.
 
nivi said:
If people would stop ribbing on Israel for a second, you will see who is at fault for this.
This isn't about who's fault this is. You will never understand this game if you think like that.
nivi said:
Not to mention that this resolution is so incerdibly vague that Israels actions could be described as defensive, which doesn't violates the resolution, nevertheless, I have no doubt that the world will once again condem us and not even mention hizballah.
That is exactly why Israel shoud have kept the status quo for at least for now.
Don't you understand? So at least some could see that Israel is holding the cease fire while Hezbollah is still receiving arms.

Result would be that more people see Israel restraining themselves while their enemy isn't. But somehow in this rage of "everybody is against us forever" and in the drowning into the idea that everyone condemning Israel actions are anti-semitist Israel itself has forgotten how the world works.

And from Israel point of view, did this actual operation affect how much weapons are send for Hezbollah anyway? If someone could show that it totally ceased this activity, I would understand better why Israel did this.

Nobody is playing by the rules really but still there are unwritten ones which seems to escape the minds of Israel always.
Unless it's their point. That they don't ultimately care.
 
nivi said:
If people would stop ribbing on Israel for a second, you will see who is at fault for this.

Lets review:

Disarmament of hizballax- X
Emargo on hizballah - X
Hizballah north of the Litani- X


Then why should Israel fulfill its end of the deal when we cleary stated:
"The cease-fire is based on U.N. resolution 1701 which calls for an international arms embargo against Hezbollah," Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev said on August 19. "In the absence of that presence, arms transfers to Hezbollah are a clear violation of 1701 and Israel is entitled to respond. When the international forces and the Lebanese Army are enforcing the embargo, Israeli action becomes superfluous


Not to mention that this resolution is so incerdibly vague that Israels actions could be described as defensive, which doesn't violates the resolution, nevertheless, I have no doubt that the world will once again condem us and not even mention hizballah.

You give them, what, 5 days to disarm and withdraw. As seen by this attack, Israel certainly hasn't withdrawn from their positions, and a ceasefire requires mutual recognition.

Israel clearly and undeniably launched an attack on Lebanese soil; no matter what the justification they might offer, it is certainly not a defensive action, and it is obviously a violation of the ceasefire. And if you say that the "terrorists" are also violating the cease fire, why, then, you've sunk to their level, and should have no objections to their calling Israel a "terrorist state".

The idea that the media will be biased towards Hezbullah is a very Israeli delusion; the media here only mentions that there was an attack, the first of its type since the ceasefire. They don't say "In direct violation of the cease-fire", or "Breaking the peace once again", no, they don't say anything like that. It is usually implicated that Hezbullah is at fault, so stop this "oh, poor Israel, we're hammered upon by the entire world's media", because it is certainly not true.
 
North King said:
You give them, what, 5 days to disarm and withdraw. As seen by this attack, Israel certainly hasn't withdrawn from their positions, and a ceasefire requires mutual recognition.

Israel clearly and undeniably launched an attack on Lebanese soil; no matter what the justification they might offer, it is certainly not a defensive action, and it is obviously a violation of the ceasefire. And if you say that the "terrorists" are also violating the cease fire, why, then, you've sunk to their level, and should have no objections to their calling Israel a "terrorist state".

The idea that the media will be biased towards Hezbullah is a very Israeli delusion; the media here only mentions that there was an attack, the first of its type since the ceasefire. They don't say "In direct violation of the cease-fire", or "Breaking the peace once again", no, they don't say anything like that. It is usually implicated that Hezbullah is at fault, so stop this "oh, poor Israel, we're hammered upon by the entire world's media", because it is certainly not true.

And after those 5 days, its clear to anybody who isn't completely naive that the resolution isn't going to be implemented.

Sunk to their level? :lol: Oh, I see, when hizballah is importing arms, they are terrorist, and when Israel trys to stop them, they are a terrorist state. :crazyeye:

The world as in the UN, not media.
 
nivi said:
And after those 5 days, its clear to anybody who isn't completely naive that the resolution isn't going to be implemented.

Sunk to their level? :lol: Oh, I see, when hizballah is importing arms, they are terrorist, and when Israel trys to stop them, they are a terrorist state. :crazyeye:

The world as in the UN, not media.

Five days is an insanely short period of time to expect something as major as this to get done.

Israel launched an attack onto Lebanese soil. That is undeniable. Well, of course, you'll try to deny it of justify it or change the terminology, but facts are facts, and Israel broke the ceasefire as much as Hezbullah did. Thus, yes, Israel has sunk to their level, though I doubt you'll ever believe it.

And the UN asked both sides to withdraw from the said zone, and wanted to put in peacekeepers. It was hardly asking for the dissolution of Israel, so once again, your assumptions about the international community are based on paranoia, and not facts.
 
C~G said:
This isn't about who's fault this is. You will never understand this game if you think like that.
That is exactly why Israel shoud have kept the status quo for at least for now.
Don't you understand? So at least some could see that Israel is holding the cease fire while Hezbollah is still receiving arms.

Result would be that more people see Israel restraining themselves while their enemy isn't. But somehow in this rage of "everybody is against us forever" and in the drowning into the idea that everyone condemning Israel actions are anti-semitist Israel itself has forgotten how the world works.

And from Israel point of view, did this actual operation affect how much weapons are send for Hezbollah anyway? If someone could show that it totally ceased this activity, I would understand better why Israel did this.

Nobody is playing by the rules really but still there are unwritten ones which seems to escape the minds of Israel always.
Unless it's their point. That they don't ultimately care.

The status qou is that hizballah will now get stronger, other terrorists group will get a boost from the "victory", gee, now why Israel doesn't want that is mind boggling. Already today we saw an example of this from Jordan, in the shooting.

It doesn't help us that people see that Israel is restraining and the enemy isn't, it isn't like anybody is going to do anything about it becuase of this.

If we believe the IDF press release, then it was a success, I doubt that.

Sorry, ALL of the unritten rules have been broken during this war, all of the grapes of wraith "understanding" flew out the window this time.
 
North King said:
Five days is an insanely short period of time to expect something as major as this to get done.

Israel launched an attack onto Lebanese soil. That is undeniable. Well, of course, you'll try to deny it of justify it or change the terminology, but facts are facts, and Israel broke the ceasefire as much as Hezbullah did. Thus, yes, Israel has sunk to their level, though I doubt you'll ever believe it.

And the UN asked both sides to withdraw from the said zone, and wanted to put in peacekeepers. It was hardly asking for the dissolution of Israel, so once again, your assumptions about the international community are based on paranoia, and not facts.

Again, if you couldn't see that the resolution wasn't going anywhere, then...Well that's your problem.

See, I don't understand how you can break a ceasefire after the other side already broke it. :crazyeye:

Yes peacekeeper, they have been so usefull in the past. My assumptions of the international community comes from past actions, and it is clear what is going on, an arab state will suggest condeming Israel on its breaking of the cease fire, most will agree, the US may or may not veto it, not that it matters realy.
 
nivi said:
Again, if you couldn't see that the resolution wasn't going anywhere, then...Well that's your problem.

See, I don't understand how you can break a ceasefire after the other side already broke it. :crazyeye:

Yes peacekeeper, they have been so usefull in the past. My assumptions of the international community comes from past actions, and it is clear what is going on, an arab state will suggest condeming Israel on its breaking of the cease fire, most will agree, the US may or may not veto it, not that it matters realy.

And once again you express a blatant disregard for the international community and diplomacy! The additude is apparently so common in Israel that it's rather obvious now why the Arabs figure that the war will only end in the total destruction of one side or the other. So do not blame them for the wars that are going to be fought, because if you refuse to negotiate, refuse to place trust in anyone else, refuse anything except open, ceaseless conflict, then there can never be peace in the Middle East.
 
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