Gaza Ceasefire Announced!

[Katheryn]

Are the Palestinians doing this so that they can get aid from Europe and the U.S.?

Does anyone know if this truce will suffice for recognition enough to get aid?

 

[Katheryn]

Let's hope the Palestinian's don't muck it up again like the last ceasefires. But in essence a ceasefire is just a lull in fighting where both parties can rearm again.

Man, they screw this up every time. I don't know why they won't mess it up again.

 

[Trajan12]

Are the Palestinians doing this so that they can get aid from Europe and the U.S.?

Does anyone know if this truce will suffice for recognition enough to get aid?

Youre absolutely right, I expect them to rearm and attack Israel again after yet another failed peace agreement. After which they will surrender and repeat.

 

[Cheetah]

Is there a record for the shortest ceasefire in history?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6184882.stm
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/2E413596-5545-4056-A93B-E6B054796E77.htm
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,231958,00.html

...

 

[Sh3kel]

And once again, the Hamas government shows there's a respectable, honorable party to talk to about serious bussiness in the Palestinian side of the equation...

 

[greekguy]

http://www.comcast.net/news/index.jsp?cat=GENERAL&fn=/2006/11/26/528638.html&cvqh=itn_israel


hopefully Abbas can get these militants under control before Israel is forced to respond.

 

[Princeps]

I doubt this is what Israel wants. This peace wont last.

 

[Katheryn]

Is there a record for the shortest ceasefire in history?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6184882.stm
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/2E413596-5545-4056-A93B-E6B054796E77.htm
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,231958,00.html

...

According to Debka.com, this one lasted 57 minutes.

I don't know if it is the record for the shortest in history, but it sure was short.

And no, Princeps, it was NOT the Israelis' fault. It was the Qassam rockets that fell.

 

[Elrohir]

This is the kind of attitude that leads to trouble.

And it's your kind of attitude that get's people killed when the trouble starts.

What is the point of treaties and cease-fires and governmental agreements if not to protect people? If they cannot do that, then they are worse than useless.

Frankly everyone knows something you don't, that it's not that easy and the situation isn't black and white.

The situation is indeed very complex - but as it stands, the Palestinians won't stop attacking Israel, even though they have their own country. (57 minutes was the best they could do before resorting to killed Israeli's again) This is, whether it's officially declared or not, war. In war, people die - life's tough. The Palestinians won't listen to reason, Hamas is like a rabid dog that won't stop attacking and causing trouble. What do you do with a rabid dog? You put him down. That's what Israel should to do Hamas, and any terrorist group that launches attacks into Israeli territory.

 

[Trajan12]

What is the difference between ceasfire Palestine and war Palestine besides the level of combat?

 

[nonconformist]

Screw the rules. This is war. Such action would be moral, and is common sense and perfectly fair - if the treaties don't reflect that, then forget them.

That's the sort of morality that lets people fly planes into buildings.

 

[GinandTonic]

That's the sort of morality that lets people fly planes into buildings.

Well said sir

 

[Elrohir]

That's the sort of morality that lets people fly planes into buildings.

Not at all. My morality is the sort that finds those killers and their associates, and kills them. Yours is the sort that let's them get away with it by overobsession with dusty treaties and lawbooks. This is the real world Noncon - all the copies of the Geneva Convention in the world won't help you if there's a suicide bomber trying to set off a bomb in your local pizzaria. If the rules don't reflect reality, then they are obsolete, and should be done away with.

You're such a modern-day Chamberlain.

 

[Katheryn]

Frankly everyone knows something you don't, that it's not that easy and the situation isn't black and white.

In a cease-fire the situation MUST be black and white.

That is why they don't work between Israel and the Palestinians. The Israelis are expected to hold to their side, and the Ps are not. That is not right.

And this seems to be the reason why it gets so "complicated":

al-Taqiyya

Spoiler :

al-Taqiyya/Dissimulation (Part I)

Assallamu `Alaykum,

============
Introduction
============
The word "al-Taqiyya" literally means: "Concealing or disguising one's
beliefs, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions, and/or strategies at a
time of eminent danger, whether now or later in time, to save oneself from
physical and/or mental injury." A one-word translation would be
"Dissimulation."

The above definition must be elaborated upon before any undertaking of this
topic is to ensue. Although correct, the definition suffers from an
apparent generalization, and lacks some fundamental details that should be
construed:

First, the CONCEALMENT of one's beliefs does NOT necessitate an ABANDONMENT
of these beliefs. The distinction between "concealment" and "abandonment"
MUST be noted here.

Second, there are numerous exceptions to the above definition, and they
MUST be judged according to the situation that one is placed in. As such,
one should NOT make a narrow-minded generalization that encompasses all
situations, thereby failing to fully absorb the spirit of the definition.

Third, the word "beliefs" and/or "convictions" does NOT necessarily mean
"religious" beliefs and/or convictions.

With the above in mind, it becomes evident that a better, and more accurate
definition of "al-Taqiyya" is "diplomacy." The true spirit of "al-
Taqiyya" is better embodied in the single word "diplomacy" because it
encompasses a comprehensive spectrum of behaviors that serve to further the
vested interests of all parties involved.


==================================
al-Taqiyya According to the Sunnis
==================================
Some Sunnis assert that al-Taqiyya is an act of pure hypocrisy that serves
to conceal the truth and reveal that which is the exact opposite (of the
truth). Furthermore, according to those Sunnis, al-Taqiyya constitutes a
lack of faith and trust in Allah (SWT) because the person who conceals his
beliefs to spare himself from eminent danger is fearful of humans, when, in
fact, he should be fearful of Allah (SWT) only. As such, this person is a
coward.


======================================
Sunni Sources in Support of al-Taqiyya
======================================
The following exposition will Insha Allah demonstrate the existence
of al-Taqiyya in the Quran, Hadith, the Prophet's (PBUH&HF) custom, and the
companions' custom. As usual, Sunni books will be used to further the
argument. This is in keeping with the commitment to reveal the truth by
showing that the Sunnis reject the Shia's arguments, while THEIR OWN books
are replete (full) with the SAME ideologies that the Shia uphold! Although
some Wahhabis staunchly argue their aforementioned statements, and
aggressively defame the Shia and refute their doctrines, they have failed
to explain the validity of their argument vis-a-vis the existence of these
SAME doctrines in their own books, as has been demonstrated in ALL the past
posts about the Shia. Those who think that they are the true protectors of
the custom of the Prophet (PBUH&HF) and the only guardians of the Islamic
Faith, how can they explain their own rejection of that which they are
supposed to protect? Rejecting al-Taqiyya is rejecting the Quran, as will
be shown shortly.

Let's Begin...

Reference 1:
-----------
Jalal al-Din al-Suyuti in his book, "al-Durr al-Manthoor Fi al-Tafsir al-
Ma'athoor," narrates Ibn Abbas', the MOST renowned and trusted narrator of
tradition in the sight of the Sunnis, opinion regarding al-Taqiyya in the
Quranic verse: "Let not the believers take for friends or helpers
unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, (they) shall have no
relation left with Allah except by way of precaution ("tat-taqooh"), that
ye may guard yourselves ("tooqatan") from them....[3:28]" that Ibn Abbas
said:

"al-Taqiyya is with the tongue only; he who has been COERCED into
saying that which angers Allah (SWT), and his heart is comfortable
(i.e., his TRUE faith has NOT been shaken.), then (saying that which
he has been coerced to say) will NOT harm him (at all); (because) al-
Taqiyya is with the tongue only, (NOT the heart)."

NOTE: The two words "tat-taqooh" and "tooqatan," as mentioned in the Arabic
Quran, are BOTH from the same root of "al-Taqiyya."

NOTE ALSO: The "heart" as referred to above and in later occurrences refers
to the center of faith in an individual's existence. It is mentioned many
times in the Quran.


Reference 2:
-----------
Ibn Abbas also commented on the above verse, as narrated in Sunan al-
Bayhaqi and Mustadrak al-Hakim, by saying:

"al-Taqiyya is the uttering of the tongue, while the heart is
comfortable with faith."

NOTE: The meaning is that the tongue is permitted to utter anything in a
time of need, as long as the heart is not affected; and one is still
comfortable with faith.


Reference 3:
-----------
Abu Bakr al-Razi in his book, "Ahkam al-Quran," v2, p10, has explained
the aforementioned verse "...except by way of precaution ("tat-taqooh"),
that ye may guard yourselves ("tooqatan") from them....[3:28]" by affirming
that al-Taqiyya should be used when one is afraid for life and/or limb. In
addition, he has narrated that Qutadah said with regards to the above
verse:

"It is permissible to speak words of unbelief when al-Taqiyya is
mandatory."


Reference 4:
-----------
It has been narrated by Abd al-Razak, Ibn Sa'd, Ibn Jarir, Ibn Abi Hatim,
Ibn Mardawayh, al-Bayhaqi in his book "al- Dala-il," and it was corrected
by al-Hakim in his book "al- Mustadrak" that:

"The nonbelievers arrested `Ammar Ibn Yasir (RA) and (tortured him
until) he (RA) uttered foul words about the Prophet (PBUH&HF), and
praised their gods (idols); and when they released him (RA), he (RA)
went straight to the Prophet (PBUH&HF). The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said:
"Is there something on your mind?" `Ammar Ibn Yasir (RA) said: "Bad
(news)! They would not release me until I defamed you (PBUH&HF) and
praised their gods!" The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "How do you find
your heart to be?" `Ammar (RA) answered: "Comfortable with faith." So
the Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "Then if they come back for you, then do
the same thing all over again." Allah (SWT) at that moment revealed
the verse: "....except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in
faith...[16:106]"

NOTE: The full verse that was quoted partially as part of the tradition
above, is: "Any one who, after accepting Faith in Allah, utters unbelief,
EXCEPT UNDER COMPULSION, his heart remaining firm in faith -- but such as
open their breast to unbelief, -- on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs
will be a dreadful Chastisement [16:106]." (Emphasis Mine)

http://www.middle-east-online.com/English/?id=18375

 

[Leonel]

Man, they screw this up every time. I don't know why they won't mess it up again.

Even this one. Palestinians want a cease fire and a few hours after it takes effect, they lob some more rockets Israel's side!

Who would have guessed?