#17 Spoiler Discussions

Just reading a little above and saw the mention of the Food Caravan Trick. :eek:
Remember that it is not allowed to use this to grow your cities past it´s natural limit in the GOTM. As well as the airbase bug, it is forbidden.


Well, I have finished my game, even one day too early!
How unusual for me, having finished the Civ3 one at 3am CET on the 3rd of this month, even though the deadline is the second. But it´s EST that counts, I hope! :lol:

Anyway, as hinted above, my elephants and crusaders stomped every opposition. My galleys (oops, triremes I mean) kept moving west, eventually hitting the continent of the French and meeting them too. The Americans found me on the other hand. Across the big ocean to the east they miracly made it alive :mad: and landed a horsie on the former Greek shore. I quickly rushed a diplomat and bought the galley as well as the horsie, sending them back to their destination. 2 other galley with veteran crusader followed, since they had already declared war on me. One of those galleys was sailing along the southern shore of the Zulu/Greek continent and had to turn around.
They used the soutern polar passage and easily found the American settlements. First attacks yielded a captured and a bribed city, and a bit later a captured Washington with 2 wonders! But more units were needed for further advance. So some of the ones that just landed at the French coast, crossed the land and were greeted by friendly sailors from around the world.
Meanwhile the French were the only ones not to immediatly declare war on me, but I attacked them nonetheless, capturing Paris with the GL and another city. :mwaha:

At home, the capital was constantly building wonders and the other cities caravans. Thanks to the Egyptians for researching Trade. Michel´s Chapel was the first to finish, a bit after capturing the HG and this reduced the unhappiness problem a bit. The Lighthouse was next, I had enough money for a lot of rushing, but it didn´t really help anymore. Then another cheaper wonder, Marco Polo´s followed, to make way for the Oracle, which finished 2 or 3 turns before the end. There the switch to high happiness also came, resulting in a noticeable increase in points. I didn´t switch to Republic though, it would have hindered my military campaigns strongly.

Back on the front, the French suddenly finished the Great Wall in another city of theirs, giving me some problems to think about. But a rushed diplo took care of it and the other last French city was easy prey for my crusaders. :hammer:
In America, also all but one city was captured, after the reinforcements arrived and the first attack wave was healed.

So before waisting any more time, we captured it and triumphed over the world. :yeah:

A real fun game, more than the conquest with hut units! No huts is really great.
The missing barbs slowed down the beginning, no galleys to bribe and no leaders to chase. I think I only captured 2 leaders.

The final date is early, not bad for Emperor and such a big archipelago map. I constantly was moving forward, not many obstacles, the biggest being the 3 movement points of triremes.
Can probably be done a bit better, but a finish not only barely in the BCs would be awesome. Let´s see if anyone did it!
:D
 
Greetings,

As I said in my previous post, this was my first attempt at OCC and a miserable failure. I just was not used to the OCC mindset and I made a lot of mistakes early on.

I decided to give this another try. The good thing about OCC is that it does not take very long to play. So I made a fresh attempt from the start. This time I got all the wonders I felt were indispensable: Colossus, Great Library, Copernicus, Shakespeare, and Newton. (Though none of the ones I would have also liked to have: Marco polo and Darwin). I was the first with Philosophy and a tech leader all along. My growth was balanced. Things were going well.

Unfortunately, I got overconfident and neglected the utmost importance of peace in OCC. This was made worse as Greeks got stronger and even started building cities on my island. I realized this too late after wasting a lot of effort on defense.

Also, later tech development was very slow as there was no one to trade with. These two factors led to my space ship not getting completed till 2015 (estimated arrival: 2030). The game ended in 2020 with no clear winner.

A second failure!!

This time I was really mad and disappointed with myself. How could I let this happen?

So, I tried for a third time. Things progressed better yet this time. Again I was the tech leader with Egyptians a close second. I made peace with all but French (mostly a nuisance) and Egyptians. I tried making peace with Egyptians but their offers were too outrageous. I still got the same 5 wonders as before. I started the space race in 1945 and proceeded full force. In 1965 Egyptians joined the space race too. I launched my 15s3c1m in 1970 due to arrive in 1985. To my disbelief the Egyptians built a 29s7c1m space ship by 1978 due to arrive in 1984, beating me by one year!

A third failure!!!

This is harder than I thought.

I went back to my detailed log and noticed that I deliberately started researching Flight later than I could to avoid cancellation of my Colossus. In retrospect this was a mistake. It allowed Egyptians to catch up with me sooner than they could otherwise.

So I went back to 1920 and started researching Flight a couple of advances earlier than I did originally. I started the space race earlier. The Egyptians attacked my viciously while I was building my space ship. I had to take a turn or two off and build military units. I still launched earlier than before. As before the Egyptians built a faster space ship trying to catch me but this time I won by one year.

Victory at last!

I submitted my third failure to Duke today. Due to earlier encouragement by Gary Nemo and Starlifter I am also posting its log.

I am anxious to play OCC again. I learned a lot about both OCC and Civ2 this month.
 
Here is the log. The formatting is unfortunately off. I do not know how to get the tabs to work. But is still readable.

Date Production started Tech started Other notables

-4000 barracks
-3950 Bronze working
-3750 Alphabet
-3400 Phalanx
-3300 Code of Laws
-3200 Phalanx
-3000 Colossus barracks sold
-2750 Ceremonial burial
-2150 Monarchy
-1450 Temple
-1400 Writing
-1300 Revolution started
-1250 Monarchy, Science 70, Tax 30.
-1200 Temple
-0975 -> Library Mysticism
-0850 Diplomat
-0800 Literacy
-0750 Oracle
-0650 -> Great Library Philosophy
-0475 Republic I was first with Philosophy
Currency Revolution started
-0425 Republic established
Science 70, Luxury 30
-0325 Americans build Pyramids
-0275 Trade
-0175 Zulus build Lighthouse
-0100 Medicine Egyptians build Hanging Gardens
+0001 Marketplace
+0060 Masonry
+0100 Caravan Science 80, Luxury 20
+0140 my Settler has run out of things to do
+0180 GL: Masonry
Construction
+0200 Aqueduct Mathematics Fortress construction begins
+0260 Egyptians build Great Wall
+0340 GL: Warrior Code Egyptians started Copernicus!!
+0360 Caravan GL: Iron Working
+0380 Astronomy barbarian Legion lands far from Cardiff
This is so late for barbarian activity
+0400 Sioux build Oracle
+0420 GL: Pottery Americans build Marco Polo
+0460 Shakespeare
+0620 -> Copernicus Bridge Building
+0640 GL: Map making
GL: Banking
+0700 GL: Seafaring
+0740 GL: Engineering
+0760 my Settler has run out of things to do
+0820 Harbor used 2 Caravans
+0840 GL: Horseback riding
+0880 Sanitation Science 70, Tax 10, Luxury 20
I am down to 25 gold
Bridge building starts
+0940 Shakespeare
+1020 GL: Wheel
GL: Polytheism
+1080 University
+1140 Sioux build King Richard’s Crusade
+1280 Theory of Gravity
+1360 GL: Monotheism
+1380 my Settler has run out of things to do
Science 60, Tax 10, Luxury 30
+1460 Granary Temple sold. Science 80, Tax 20
I am the most advanced civ
+1480 Navigation
+1530 Sewer system
+1550 GL: Navigation
Invention
+1590 Physics
+1640 Newton’s College GL: Physics French build Michael Angelo’s
Steam Engine
+1690 Railroad
+1700 Egyptians build Magellan’s expedition
+1710 Sioux build Leonardo’s workshop
+1740 GL: Feudalism
+1758 Industrialization Settler starts building railroad
+1776 GL: Gunpowder
+1778 Communism
+1780 Egyptians build Adam Smith
+1790 French build Sun Tzu’s
+1792 GL: Chivalry
+1794 gave Railroad to Sioux for peace
I suggested alliance, they countered with me
Declaring war on Americans. I refused.
+1796 University
+1798 GL: Democracy
Espionage
+1808 Caravan
+1810 Magnetism
+1814 Egyptians build Statue of Liberty
+1816 Caravan
+1818 2 barbarian Legions near Cardiff
+1820 GL: Economics Americans build Darwin’s voyage
barbarian Legions killed in attack
+1822 GL: Magnetism
Leadership
+1824 Transport Corporation French build Eiffel tower
Barbarian leader captured for 100
+1830 Gave Industrialization to Sioux for peace
They suggested alliance & I accepted.
They shared their World map.
+1832 Spy
+1836 Freight Metallurgy
+1842 Factory
+1844 Delivered in demand Freight for 620 (Sioux)
+1846 Conscription Delivered in demand Freight for 592 (Sioux)
+1848 5 barb Musketeers & 4 Cannons near Cardiff
barbarian Musketeer bribed for 61
+1851 Tactics 2 barbarian Musketeers killed in attack
barbarian Musketeer bribed for 61
barbarian Cannon bribed for 82
+1852 barbarian Cannon killed in attack
2 barbarian Cannons destroyed
+1853 Coastal Fortress Phalanx killed
+1854 barbarian Musketeer killed in attack
+1855 Phalanx killed
2 barbarian Musketeers & a leader killed
a Musketeer & a Cannon became veteran
+1856 Cavalry Amphibious Warfare 3 new barbarian Musketeers near Cardiff
3 barbarian Crusaders near Cardiff
First pollution appears
+1857 Egyptian Ironclad killed 3 barb Crusaders
Non veteran Musketeer killed
injured barbarian Cannon destroyed
Sioux embassy established
+1858 Spy barbarian Cannon killed in attack
+1859 Bank barbarian Musketeer killed
+1860 Americans build Suffrage
2 barbarian Musketeers killed
gave Railroad to Zulus for peace
established Zulu embassy
+1861 Electricity Electricity cancels Great Library: 19 techs
barbarian Musketeer killed
gave 150 to Egyptians for peace
established Egyptian embassy.
Egyptians are at war with Greeks.
+1863 Stock exchange Sioux build UN
+1864 Zulu gave me 500 to ally with them against
Egyptians. I accepted.
2 barbarian Dragoons near Cardiff
+1865 barbarian Dragoon killed
+1866 Steel Egyptian Ironclad killed attacking Cardiff
allies Zulu & Sioux declare war on Egyptians
+1867 Port Facility my Settler has run out of things to do
+1869 second pollution
+1870 Destroyer
+1871 -> Cruiser Electronics
+1872 American Frigate killed diplomat near Cardiff
2 American Frigates killed in attack.
Gave metallurgy to Greeks for peace
Established Greek embassy.
+1873 Freight
+1875 Freight
+1876 Refrigration
+1877 Hydro plant
+1878 Stole Chemistry from Egyptians
Spy achieved veteran status
+1881 Machine tools Americans build Bach
Delivered in demand Freight for 1253 to
Egyptians
+1882 Miniaturization American Ironclad killed in attacking Cruiser
+1883 American Musketeers landed in my fort
asked for Tactics; I refused.
Nevertheless offered peace. I accepted.
+1884 Americans left my fort
+1886 Supermarket Refining
+1888 City walls
+1890 Offshore platform Revolution started
+1891 Democracy established
Science 90, Tax 10
+1892 Spy Explosives
+1893 Spy
+1894 Spy Cruiser sank Egyptian Destroyer
+1895 Freight
+1896 Freight Combustion
+1897 Freight French Frigate killed Freight
Egyptian Destroyer killed in attack on Cardiff
French Frigate killed by Cruiser
+1898 Freight
+1899 Freight Gave Miniaturization to Americans for peace
+1900 Barracks Automobile
+1901 Marines
+1902 Cathedral Cruiser sank French Destroyer
+1904 -> Super Highways Mass Production Egyptians build Hoover dam
Delivered in demand Freight for 708 (Sioux)
I already had 3 routes.
Did this one just for the bonus.
Science 100
+1906 Mass Transit Computers Egyptians build Cure for Cancer
+1908 Mass Transit French Destroyer sank Transport & 2 Spies
French Ironclad killed in attack on Cardiff
Cruiser sank Egyptian Destroyer
+1909 -> Research lab Mobile Warfare
+1910 Battleship With no Scientists, science is at 1136.
+1911 Robotics Barracks sold automatically.
+1912 Egyptian Submarine killed attacking Cruiser
+1913 Barracks Atomic Theory
+1914 Manufacturing plant
+1916 Recycling I am first in tech. Egyptians are next.
Battleship destroyed Egyptian Submarine.
+1917 French Destroyer killed in attack on Cardiff
+1919 Recycling center Nuclear Fission
+1921 Freight Americans asked for Computers. I refused.
Peace still holds though.
+1922 Freight Nuclear Power With 4 scientists science is at 1264.
+1924 Armor Just in case
+1925 Freight Flight Battleship sank French Destroyer
+1926 Freight
+1927 Freight
+1928 Freight Radio Colossus made obsolete.
With 4 scientists science is at 960.
+1929 Freight
+1930 Freight
+1931 Freight Battleship sank Egyptian Battleship
+1932 Freight Advanced Flight barbarian Fanatics near Cardiff
+1933 Armor barbarian Fanatics killed my Armor
+1934 Freight
+1935 Freight barbarian Fanatic killed in attack on Armor
+1936 Freight Rocketry
+1937 Freight French Frigate killed in attack on Cardiff
Battleship sank French Cruiser
+1938 Freight
+1939 Freight Battleship sank French Cruiser
+1940 Freight Space Flight
+1941 SETI program
+1944 -> Apollo program Plastics
+1945 SS Structural
+1946 SS Structural
+1947 SS Structural
+1948 SS Structural Laser Science 90, Tax 10
+1949 SS Structural
+1950 SS Structural
+1951 SS Structural
+1952 SS Component Superconductor pollution
Battleship sank French Destroyer
+1953 SS Component
+1954 SS Component
+1955 SS Component
+1956 SS Structural Fusion Power Science 100
+1957 SS Structural
+1958 SS Structural
+1959 SS Structural Egyptians build SETI
+1960 SS Structural Future Tech 1
+1961 SS Structural Egyptian Cruiser killed attacking Cavalry
Battleship sank Egyptian Destroyer & Cruiser
Cruiser sank Egyptian Destroyer
+1962 SS Structural Battleship sank Egyptian Destroyer
+1963 SS Structural Battleship sank French Cruiser
+1964 SS Module Future Tech 2
+1965 Egyptians join the space race
Science 20, Tax 80
+1966 SS Module Battleship sank French Destroyer

+1967 SS Module Egyptian Cruiser killed in attacking Battleship
Cruiser sank Egyptian Submarine
+1968 SS Component Egyptian Battleship killed my Cruiser
tech trade with Americans:
Traded Superconductor for Combined Arms
Traded Space Flight for Guerrilla warfare
Battleship killed trying to sink Egyptian one
+1969 SS Component Americans destroyed Greeks
Science 20, Tax 80
+1970 Battleship 15s3c1m Space ship launched.
Estimated arrival: 1985
+1971 Egyptian Destroyer killed in attack on Cardiff
+1972 Armor Stealth Egyptian AEGIS killed Marine in Cardiff
Egyptian Marine killed by Armor
Egyptian Artillery killed by Cavalry (->vet)
Egyptian Armor killed by Armor
Egyptian city of size 1 destroyed.
Egyptian AEGIS killed by battleship
Egyptian Cruiser killed by battleship
+1973 Armor Americans join the space race
Armor killed by Egyptian Armor
Armor killed Egyptian Armor & Marine.
+1974 Battleship Egyptian Armor killed in attack on Armor
Battleship sank trying to kill Egyptian one
+1975 Gave Nuclear power to Americans for peace
+1976 Armor French join the space race
Egyptian Cruiser killed in attack on Cardiff Egyptian Destroyer killed in attack on Cardiff
Egyptian Battleship killed Armor in Cardiff
Egyptian Battleship killed by Battleship
+1977 Battleship Egyptian AEGIS killed by Battleship
Egyptian Submarine killed by Battleship
+1978 Cannon killed by French Cruiser
Battleship killed by Egyptian Battleship
+1979 French Destroyer killed in attack on Cardiff
Egyptian 29s7c1m Space ship launched.
Estimated arrival: 1984
Game lost
 
After the 4th last night, I settled on a full SS with minimal terrain development to speed the time-short game. Most lf the last part of the game was spent at 0% science, but 1 tech per turn due to freight deliveries -- researched, built, launched SS ASAP, despite rapidly growing Civ 2 score (ugh...). The Sioux actually allied with me, and remained allied for the rest of the game. The never gave me any troubles, and I gifted them all but Fundy. However, my peace score did not begin until 1559, and credited me with only 9 of the 100 bonus points :(.

----------------------- AD 1000 ---------------------------

Pop: 18.40M (Democracy)
Tax: 40% (760g, cost=117g))
Sci: 30% (397b, 0T) (47 Total Adv) (Advs cost about 1500b)
Lux: 30% (most cities in WLTC)
Prod: 200MT (0T poll, 110 polluted tiles, No Skulls Yet)
Cities: 25
Wonders: 14 (Ancient: Pyr,HG,Col,GL Ren: All Ind: LW,JSB,ASTC)

ENEMY:
French: Republic, 7 Cities, Peace
Egypt: Republic, 21 Techs, 9 Cities, No Contact with Me Yet
Americans: Republic, 34 Techs, 2 Cities, War
Sioux: Monarchy, 32 Techs, 5 Cities, War


FORCES (Many are NONEs):
18 Settlers (4 in prod)
26 Musketeers
07 Dragons
09 Galleons (1 in prod)
06 Ironclads
05 Dips (2 in prod)
30 Caravans (4 in prod)

AD 1000 Day50 018.4; Leadership; S-Metallurgy; 290g-85, A01-LitBighorn (Silk,876,Dmd); A01-LBH (Gold,292,NoD); Killed Sioux Trireme(+1)
AD 1020*Day51 020.9; Metallurgy; S-Electricity; A01-LitBighorn (Silk,876,Dmd); Land at Paris; They Demand; I refuse; WAR when I insist they withdraw; Capture-Chicago(12g,Anarchy); KILLED-Americans; A01-LitBighorn (Spice,292,NoD)
AD 1040 Day52 022.8; Electricity; S-Conscription; A01-SlimButtes (Dye,496,D);A01-CedarCreek(Hides,540,D); A01-LBh (Cu,580,D)
AD 1060 Day53 024.6; Conscription; S-Tactics; A09-A01(55g,N); B17-A01(Coal,417,D); LitBighorn (Silk,870-I'm squatting on an Arrow?-So it loses 6,Dmd); (50/20/30)
AD 1080 Day54 026.6; Tactics; S-Refrigeration; ISAAC NEWTONS COLLEGE; A01-Wounded Knee (Silver,775,D); A01-Wounded Knee (Beads,620,D);A01-SlimButtes (Coal,260,N); (70/0/30)

AD 1100*Day55 029.0; Refrigeration; S-Amphibious Warfare; A01-Ceder Creek (Gold,840,D); A01-LHB(Silk,765,D); Capture-Cedar Creek(58g); Capture-Slim Buttes(103g); Capture-LBH(118g); Capture-Three Forks(25g); Brinbing French Warriors(100g,150g,NONEs)
AD 1120 Day56 030.1; Amphib war; S-Fundamentalism; Bribe- Barb Legion(NONE,82g);A01-PiRamses (Silk,1044g,D,rec); A01-Wounded Knee (Beads,600g,D); Sioux- Offer CF(NO!,Senate Confirms),150g?(YES),Peace?(NO,Senate-Overrules),PEACE;Gift-Sioux-GP,Nav,Consc,Tactics,Inv,SteamEng,Physics,Metallurgy,Magnetism,Explosives,Engineering,Leadership,Electricity,Democracy,ToG,Feudalism,Chivalry,AtomicTheory,Refrigeration,AmphibiousWarfare(ALL 20!); Swap Maps; Allied-Sioux Wanted AmphibWar(which they already got!), so I "gave" it and we are allied!!!!; Sioux would not gift us; We are RICH RICH RICH, But SMALL SMALL SMALL (8,500+ Gold)
AD 1140 Day57 031.7; Fundy; S-RR; G04-A01(Salt,115,nD); Paris(103g,LIGHTHOUSE,SellGranary);Tours(142g-20g);Rheims(Sz5empt,172g-47,SellGranary);Orleans(24g);Lyons(37g);Marseille(Sz65occ,325-32g); Founded B06;A01-Pi-Ramesis(Coal,348g,N);A01-El-Amaran(Silk,930g,D)
AD 1160 Day58 032.9; RR; S-Industrialization; 1st Pollution; Disband Cedar Creek; Bribe 4 barb Elephants in Egpyt, Kill 6, no leader visible; A01-PiRamesis(Dye,464,D)(Silk,696,D)(Gold,232,N)
AD 1180*Day59 034.7; Sea barbs pounded G04 & took it. Bribed Dragoon(NONE)Lost a Vet DESTROYER!! and took city back (78g, size 2 now); Caravans: 500+232; Bribe-Chartre(189g-173g;WasInAnarchy); Sold Granary; KILLED-FRENCH; out of caravans; Set 30.40.30.
AD 1200 Day60 034.7; Corporation; S-Steel; Byblos(304-67,WasInAnarchy);Ai3-A01(Spice,320,D); A03-Pi-Ram(Silk,763,D); A01-Pi(Salt,348,N); Gift Sioux ABF(3 techs)
AD 1220 Day61 035.5; Steel; S-Electronics; Capture Thebes (Capital, 100g); revolt-Pi-Ramesis(Sz8,704g-117g); A01-Elephantine(Bds,744,D); A01-Ele(Bds,372,N); A01-Memphis(Gold,394,N); Bribe-Elephantine(486-72g); Bribe-Memphis(432,63); Bribee-ElArmana(222-27g); Senate-Forced Cease Fire; Refused Peace & Egypt offered Peace for 350g(YES); Subvert Heliopolis(385x2); Subvert Alexandra(216x2-3); EGYPT-All but Giza dead (Cannot reach it). Now that I don't want barbs, here they flood.
AD 1240 Day62 036.0; Electonics; S-Genetic Engineering. A01-C11(Gold,216,N); A01-C09(Wool+Gold,213x2,N); Gift Sioux Steel,Elect; G12-A01(Coal,400,D); G05-A01(Salt,167,N); B17-A01(Gold,172,N)
AD 1260*Day63 036.7; Genetic Engineering; S-Machine Tools; Subvert Giza (270x2-27); KILLED-EGYPT. A01-WK(Coal,870,D); A01-C02(Dye,368,D); A08-A01(96,N)
AD 1280 Day64 038.1; Machine Tools; S-Refining; A01-C03(Silk,648,D); A01-C11(Coal,540,D); A01-C03(Gems,648,D); A01-WK(Spice,348,N)
AD 1300 Day65 039.3; 1200 Refining; S-Miniaturization; Killed Barb Leder! (1st one, I think); A01-C16(Cloth,547,D)G05-C03(Silk,320,D,mistake); M01-A01(Spice,516,D)
AD 1320 Day66 040.9; Minit; S-COmbustion; B02-A01(Spice,326,D); Gift Sioux ABF(4); A01-C16(Cloth,547,D); A01-Ci0(Salt,180,D); A01-C11(Cloth,572,D);
AD 1340*Day67 042.7; Comb; S-Auto; HOOVER DAM; M01-A01-(Beads,182,N) A01-C09(Silk,698,D); A01-C11(Silk,686,D)
AD 1360 Day68 045.2; Auto; S-Communsim; Freight: wool,silk,beads; [ Out of Gold... SHs are expensive ]; A01 Mtn=Hill, 5-stack Mine;
AD 1380 Day69 048.6; 1342 Comm; S-Espionage ; A02=61s city; A01=50s city; Killed Legion, Ldr in Fort with Destroyer; A01-B05(Gold,189,D); A01-C11(Silk,1182,D,rec); A01-C09(568,1182,N) ; OOM (Out Of Money)

AD 1400 Day70 050.7; 1381/381; Espionage; S-Mobile Warfare; A07 Skull; A01-C17(Silver,967,D) ; Gift-Sioux-ABF; A01-G01(Spice,1072,D)
AD 1420*Day71 053.2; 1430/381; Mob War; S-Guer War; A01-C11(Silver,1178,D) ;Spy-WK Building Courthouse; A01-C02(Silk,1178,D) ;
AD 1440 Day72 050.7; 1381/381; Guerilla Warfare; S-Flight (NoChoice); G03 Pollution; NO TRADE (Make Darwin)
AD 1460 Day73 059.7; 1381/381; DARWINS VOYAGE; Flight; Radio; S-Adv Flight; A03 Poll; NO TRADE (Airports const); [Short Gold]
AD 1480 Day74 063.8; 1525/381; A01 Poll; M02-A01(Spice,1216,D,rec);B17-A01(Oil,816,D)
AD 1500*Day75 068.6; 1650/398; Adv Flight; S-Rocketry; Poll-B17; A01-N08(Cloth,778,D); G05- Bi2(Cloth,265,D); A01-B06(Gold,547,N); A01-C02(Spice,1284,D,rec)

----------------------- AD 1500 ---------------------------

Pop: 68.6M (Republic)
Tax: 70% (5605g, cost=992g)
Sci: 00% (36b, 56T) (9x8=72 Total Adv) (Advs cost about 2016b)
Lux: 30% (most cities in WLTC)
Prod: 1056MT (1500T poll, 0 polluted tiles, No Skulls)
Cities: 67
Wonders: 20 (Ancient: All Ren: All Ind: 5 Modern: Hoover Dam)

ENEMY:
Sioux: Democracy, 1 City, Allied


FORCES (Many are NONEs):
72 Settlers (3 in prod)
40 Riflemen
14 Cavalry
12 Transports
07 Destroyers
08 Dips
01 Spy
19 Freight (3 in prod)
01 Explorer



AD 1510 Day76 071.5; 1704; Rocketry; S-Mass Prod; A01-B11(Oil,1055,D); M03-A08(Silk,1164,D)
AD 1520 Day77 074.6; 1757; Mass Prod; S-Computers; Poll-A01; A01-C11(436,N); A02-C11(Silk,1228,D); A01-G11(376,N)
AD 1530 Day78 077.9; 1777; Computers; S-Recycling; Poll-3 New; A01-N01(Wine,1484,N,rec); A01-M03(Wine,904,N)
AD 1540*Day79 080.5; 1836; Recycling; S-Robotics; A01-C11(Oil,1512,D); A01-N11(Gems,1008,D)
AD 1550 Day80 083.2; 1872; Robotics; S-Space Flight; A01-B06(Oil,1064,D); A01-G12(Oil,1316,D) ;sioux - commie
AD 1560 Day81 087.6; 1986/413; Space Flight; S-Environmentalism; CURE FOR CANCER; Poll-2; G12-M02(338,N); A01-Ci0(Silk,1380,D); Ai1-N11(Salt,544,N); G03-F02(Salt,342,N)
AD 1570 Day82 091.9; 2171; Environmentalism; S-Plastics; Ai1-G01(Oil,952,D); F04-G11(Oil,938,D); A02-C12(Gold,494,N); Making, joining lots Engineers
AD 1580*Day83 095.1; 2218; Plastics; Nuclear Fission; C11-Bi4(Gold,672,D); A01-N07(Silk,1444,D);Ai3-No8(Cloth,568,N)
AD 1590 Day84 099.9; 2332; Nuc Fission; Nuc Power; G12-N05(Dye,1008,D); Ai1-N03(Silk,1572,D)
AD 1600 Day85 104.7; 2436/440; Nuc Power; S-Laser; APOLLO PROGRAM; Starting SS; A01-B13(Oil,1246,D); C12-P03(Hides,490,N); G03-Ni1(Gems,1456,D)
AD 1610 Day86 111.5; 2554; Laser; S-Labor Union; SS-03-00-00; B10-M07(Cu,920,D); G11-N08(Dye,835,D); B04-N07(Silk,1440,D)
AD 1620*Day87 116.6; 2662; Labor Union; S-Superconductor; SS-06-1/1-0/0/0; N06/N08=1st Uranium; B02-N02(Gold,1048,D); A02-C09(Gems,1648,D,rec)
AD 1630 Day88 122.1; 2777; Superconductor; S-Fusion; SS-12-2/1-0/0/0; N06-A01(Uranium!,1870,D,rec); N08-A07(Uranium!,1870,D); RB-Modules-1272x4;1080x2;
AD 1640 Day89 128.7; 2876; Fusion; S-Combined Arms; SS-16-3/3-3/2/2; F01-A02(Silver,1110,D); B03-M02(Spice,1108,D); Disband about 14 Riflemen, 2 Cav for SS.; Mi1-F02(Silk,1632,D)
AD 1650 Day90 136.4; 2979; Combined Arms; S-Stealth; SS-39-8/8-4/4/4-DONE; Skull; A01-Ci1(Oil,1610,D) ; A01-C17(Coal,1434,D); Buy SETI 1424; Set 20/50/30; Gift Sioux ABF(22 techs - Drops from 3000b to 2300b); LAUNCH SPACESHIP (ETA-1661); (GT 191, GOTM Turn 190)
AD 1651*Day91 143.0; 3160; Stealth; FT001,002; S-FT003; SETI; Set 30/40/30 (2 Adv per turn); A03-C09(Coal,1330,D); C02-P03(Dye,936,D); B02-C17(Oil,1335,D); P03-Bi2(Gems,1516,D)
AD 1652 Day92 151.2; 3271; FT003,004,005; Poll-Ci1; A01-C11(Silk,1416,D); M07-B03(Silk,1392,D); C12-Zi0(Cloth,952,D)
AD 1653 Day93 156.5; 3403; FT006,007,008; B05-Pi0(450,N); B06-Pi0(480,N); Set 50-20-30 (Need Gold); M02-F01(Beads,622,N); Mi1-Bi1(454,N); M03-Bi1(Hides,466,N); M06-G01(Spice,648,D)
AD 1654 Day94 164.6; 3577; FT009,010; B05-Y07(Gold,1174,N); N09-Bi4(Cu,1064,D); G09-Bi4(Gold,1140,D)
AD 1655*Day95 174.6; 3747; FT011,012; UNITED NATIONS; Sioux Spy Came Out; Capitalizing Some Cities; M05-B11(Coal,1224,D); B14-A09(Oil,1120,D); C03-P02(442,N)
AD 1656 Day96 184.0; 3875; FT013,014; Sioux Building SS Structural! N01-A01(Spice,1780,D); A01-C07(Coal,1410,D); C12-Zi0(Hides,435,N); A01-C06(Hides,530,N); C06-M09(Gold,1176,D)
AD 1657 Day97 194.4; 4047; FT015,016; Ci1-A01(Spice,1380,D); STATUE OF LIBERTY; Trash Deliveries 506, 456, 554, 188, 498, 498, 226, 206; ------- PEACE= DAY 0 ------
AD 1658 Day98 203.4; 4230; FT017,018; MANHATTAN PROJECT, WOMENS SUFFERAGE, EIFFEL TOWER; Trade Slamming: 964, 484, 504, 452, 243, 488, 444, 506, 170, 185,
AD 1659*Day99 210.9; 4333; FT019,020; 1624, 1024, 474, 1270, 454, 440, 185, 326, 286, 300, 1452, 910, 394, (Game Turn 200; 1st credited turn of Peace; Peace = +3)
AD 1660 Day100 221.1; 4468; FT021,022; (GT 201, GOTM Turn 200)
AD 1661 Day101 ****************** SS LANDS *******************




----------------------- AD 1660 ---------------------------

Pop: 221.6M (Democracy) (Score=4585; GOTM Game Turn 200)
Tax: 00% (3908g, cost=3205g)
Sci: 00% (764b, 6T) (All Adv +22 Future Techs)
Lux: 100% (All cities in WLTP days)
Prod: 2833MT (220T poll, 0 polluted tiles)
Cities: 139 (Though Still Growing Massively)
Wonders: 28 (Ancient: All Ren: All Ind: All Modern: All)

ENEMY:
Sioux: Democracy, 1 City, Allied (Peace only credited for +6 ??)

FORCES (Some are NONEs):
01 Engineers
23 Riflemen
12 Cavalry
12 Transports
07 Destroyers
08 Dips
01 Spy
95 Freight (2 in prod)
01 Explorer


Landing Year 1661
-------------------
Population = 3909
Achievements = 560
Peace = +9
Spaceship = 400
Future Tech = +110
Barbarians = +0
----
Civ2 Score = 4988 Final Score

Landed 1661, GOTM Turn 201, Equivalent Landing Year 1752
 
Originally posted by Ali Ardavan
I submitted my third failure to Duke today.
Sorry to have to remind you, but the foremost rule of the GOTM is:

Only the FIRST attempt at the GOTM is VALID!!!

You can always replay the GOTM, but you MUST submit your first try at this map to take part in the rankings. Everything else is considered cheating, since you already have foreknowledge of the map.

So, if you want your game included, please submit your first try.
:D
 
Good point Lucky. Duke of M pointed it out to me also after my submission. I just submitted the first attempt. Either way it was a loss but a worthy one.
 
I finished, trying Dips and Caravans. When I get home, need to study people's logs. I was happy to finish in 1832AD without any Industrial Pollution and all of the Wonders that I wanted, but it seems others did even better. I am amazed that I captured Temples in several cities.

By the way, it's my son who is playing chess, he won his first four games (of nine) in his section, so he's keyed up. We are here in sunny Philadelphia, at the Chess World Open http://www.worldopen.com/ -- I'm also the parent/driver for two of his friends. They're all doing well, I'm sleeping on the floor, it's like my futon at home anyway.

1796 AD, Barbs in Our Sea! 6 new WLTK. Gold Elephantine to Armagh PAID $212+3 Cannons and Dragoons storm Lyons, $82, blunder and ruin Aquaduct. French demand RR, No. Senate supports more action against the French! 40,50,10% 35010,000
1798 AD, Barb Crusaders vanquished by our Rifleman, now Veteran. Bribe Barb Frigate for $102. 40,50,10%
36940,000 pop in 67, $1012-151 =861, Sci 258/8, Mfg=532 FS=3.3
1800, French fire. Sioux threaten us. TACTICS, choose Gravity over Amphibious, Fundamentalism, Industrialization. 39680,000 pop. Destroyer reduces Paris! Captured, $59. Senate CF. Completed RR to Giza. Founded Swamp Horn. 39970,000 pop.
1802 AD, 41830,000 pop. Subvert rioting Orleans for 2x=$692, got $75+60, 4 structures +3 troops. Spending lots of money, delay purchase of New York for road & troops. French demand RR, No, they grow weary, CF has expired! 42380,000 pop.
1804 AD, Americans see our greedy eyes on Washington, moved in Elephant Catapult & Chariot. Athens Size=17 Stock Exchange doesn't work, need Colosseum. Silk Rhondda to New York PAID $380+6. 44570,000 pop.
1806 AD, French Sneak attack, futile. Americans also break CF, New York kills a Cavalry, Riflemen resist nicely. Founded Edfu, another Hill Mine city. New York wants $4020, a bit over our budget! So we're saving, hate to tighten our money belt! Killing loose French, shell Marseilles, begin assault of New York. Road, Sioux get Peace Treaty fr Senate! 47260,000 pop

1808 AD, French kill weak Cavalry, we weep. 49940,000 pop New York is rioting! King Richard is polluting. Cannon and Cavalry storm New York, $148+60. Then CF, to drive up the cost of Atlanta -- Senate doesn't have business sense either. Dip subverts Atlanta for 2x = $2386, plundered $159, many structures and troops, Settler, Ship. Cannon blast Marseilles, killed other French Musket & Settler, captured Marseilles $28+60 w Market & Aquaduct. Dip to Avignon, Senate CF again. Subvert for 2x = $996, got $34 and Temple! Market Harbor +3 Muskets. Now only Washington, Tours, and Bear Paw remain. Having finished shopping, bought 5 expensive sewers and whatnot. 40,50,10%
51150,000 pop in 75, $1253-206 =1047, Sci 288/8, Mfg=609 FS=3.2

1810 AD, first ALPINE, needless. 53900,000 pop. French agree w Senate on a permanent peace treaty. Dip subvert Tours for 2x = $550, get $40+60 + Temple Walls Aquaduct Musket and Settler, FRENCH DESTROYED. Now we can bring all 10 Cannon to bear on Washington, using our new American Caravel. still 40,50,10%
54000,000 pop in 76, $1346-214 =1332, Sci 300/7, Mfg=623 Sc=1483

1812 AD, Americans threaten to drive us out. Surprise Barb Pirate destroys our Galleon & Explorer. Leonardo busy upgrading all of the obsolete captured units. Discovered Gravity, choose Amphibious over Fundamentalism, Atomic, Industrialization. Many new WLTK, 56850,000 pop.

1814 AD, Build Isaac Newton, American Elephant buzzing us. Sioux demand we withdraw one unit from near Bear Paw, ok. Founded Whale Stone. 40,60,00% 60180,000 pop, Sco=1590
1816 AD, Sioux Bear Paw again. Barb Pirate Dragoons near Tours. Several new WLTK, 63570,000 pop, Sco=1634 Hunting Barb Leader w new Alpine men, shipping to the action.

1818 AD, Americans finally attack, kill our Explorer, but now Washington seems doomed. Sioux demand Bear Paw again, we withdraw, their Settler comes out. 67040,000 pop, 30,70,00%
Cannon attack Washington Walls on River, lost 3, but in the end, AMERICANS DESTROYED, got $409. Score=1735 Bribe Sioux Settler for $200, None, could end game here. Gold Herakleia to Little Bighorn PAID $214+4. PEAK ARMY: 46 Engr+7, 59 Riflemen, 21 Cavalry, 7 Cannon (10, just lost 3 on Washington finis), 3 Alpine+2, 8 Galleon, 1 Barb Frigate, 3 Destroyer, 26 Dip+3, 4 Explorer. We mourn 24 casualties, including 4 Crusaders and 4 Explorers.

1820 AD, Barb Dragoon takes the bait Explorer. Several new WLTK, 71890,000 pop, Score=1796 Elim Barb menace. Could end game. Wine Heliopolis to Caernarfon PAID $304+6.

1822 AD, built Eiffel Tower. 76790,000 pop, Pollution at KRC, which I find irrelevant and harmful. Score=1857 20,80,00%
1824 AD, new WLTK, 80890,000 pop, Score=1931
1826 AD, 85220,000 pop, $940 -365, S=77/27, 10,90% Score=1989
1828 AD, Barb Dragoons land near Philadelphia, all destroyed. 90580,000 Out of money, nearly out of food, out of time. Founded Cleveland, New Abydos.
1830 AD, 95100,000, Score 2102, Building junk with Settlers so cities will increase one more last time.
1832 AD, Amphibious, choose Industrialization because it no longer matters, I'm done. No Pollution. 00,10,00% Score=2180
Subvert Bear Paw 2x= $366. SIOUX DESTROYED. 101,200,000 pop.
Final score 2184 =1739+420+21 +4?. Magnificent 218%
 
Well, it was a busy week (with no time for Civ or CFC) but an all night rush effort after the 4th of July fireworks finished GOTM17 yesterday.


GOTM17 Things of note:

- Due to weak AI, this because mostly a game of trade after 1 AD.
- Only 2 Uranium freight were available to be built, until a 3rd one came up just before the SS landing.... I usually expect more.
- Early trade was A01-centric (my SSC & Capital) because:
--- The location (far away from trade partners
--- The extra trade arrows
- Trade was slow in the early years (too much unnecessary barb preparation)
- The Zulus provided a good Trireme/Caravel based trade partner
- Navigation/ Invention was delayed to keep trade bonuses
- Ditto for RR & Flight
- Decided to record trade for most of game
- At times, the bonuses exceeded the cap of 2/3 an advance value... so at times, I did not gift the Sioux, esp. during endgame before FT (get more gold that way).
- Evolved a "standard" compact notation for trade info; some early notaions were sort of haphazard.
--- Example: "A01-C02(Spice,1284,D,rec)" decoded to "Demanded Spice from A01 to C02 got 1284 gold & science, and was a record to that point in the game.
- Trade was most time consuming element in late game
- Science was 0% for most of late game (AD 1200 on), using trade plus a scientist for one advance per turn
- Zero trade in 1440 & 1460 due to suspension for Airport construction; Darwin's filled the gap.
- Gold funded most late game construction
- End game was vastly underdone because of indecision about conquer or SS method.... decided upon a new (for me) compromise:
--- Full (39/8/8/4/4/4) SS with very little terrain development
--- Small "standing" Engineer Corps (typically about 50 to 90)
--- Many engineers used to start and join instant new celebrating cities from 40s "seed" cities
--- This greatly speeded up the last 600 years of play, albiet at the expense of score

- King Richard's Crusade was a great value in this game., as was Colossus.
- Isaac Newton's College was a bust... it probably never earned it's own cost back.
- 1st Pollution (skull) was in 1160 (only one due to KRC).
- About 14 skulls throughout game.
- The Sioux Allied with me in AD1120 when they were down to 1 city, and the alliance was never broken.
- Disregard my efforts to swap maps early on... I had forgoten I had to have Mapmaking to swap!
- Deliberately chose Hanging Gardens over Pyramids during early wonder race.
- Barbarians were of almost no help
--- Took 2 of their ships
--- Sea Barbs took one city, causing loss of some supported units, incl. Vet destroyer (should spread out units more).
- Primarily Ironclads/Destroyers (vet with SunTzu, plus Magellans) conquered the AIs.
- Odd thing: Despite centuries of peace, no credit for the peace bonus was given until suddenly starting in 1659; this may not be active until Game Turn 200.
 
Due to earlier encouragement by Gary Nemo and Starlifter I am also posting its log. ... I learned a lot about both OCC and Civ2 this month.
Like you, I learned a lot from OCC play. The logs of other GOTM players helped a lot, too. It's my hope that the logs will help people see various techniques, and improve people's play & fun. I personally like reading logs... it's like having a fast-forward game play.

by Gary Nemo:
I am amazed that I captured Temples in several cities.
You must have subverted the cities... Subversion will get you the temples, courthouses, and cathedrals :). This can help pay the additional cost of subversion...

by Ali Ardavan:
Either way it was a loss but a worthy one.
Still a nice game, and good to read! Thanks for posting it for us :). Your games were were tight... what competition between you and the AI (esp. with only one year's difference in the landing date)!
 
I hope everyone had good games, I was on vacation and could not submit on time, :( Well well, I'll have a look at GOTM 18, :)

BTW Starlifter you should be glad that you got only 9 points of the peace bonus since that means you had a pretty fast finish. I'm not sure but my guess is that it is better to finish the game fast instead of waiting for a peace bonus if you want a good GOTM score. The peace bonus begins by turn 200 as far as I know, ;)
 
I'm not sure but my guess is that it is better to finish the game fast instead of waiting for a peace bonus if you want a good GOTM score. The peace bonus begins by turn 200 as far as I know,

Yes, it is better to finish ASAP... it 'typically' takes about 30 points per day to "tread water" around AD1500, and peace is only +3 per day. Even FT (+5) does not make it worthwhile.

I think you're right about the Turn 200... that number is significant for many other Civ2 events, and so it must be for peace, too... though I'm not sure why they did it this way, and have not explicitly noticed it before. But looking back, I see other games were similarly affected (e.g., no peace bonus before GT200). The odd thing here that stood out was that nothing in the game changed, and suddenly the peace bonus started.
:)
 
Originally posted by Lucky
Just reading a little above and saw the mention of the Food Caravan Trick. :eek:
Remember that it is not allowed to use this to grow your cities past it´s natural limit in the GOTM. As well as the airbase bug, it is forbidden.


:D

Lucky,

I was unaware of the illegality of the Food Caravan Trick. :eek: (I still don't see it in the rules) Given the one month limit on game play and the 2+% depreciation factor in the scoring, I didn't think that the FCT is an efficient method for boosting score anyway.

:rolleyes:
 
The food caravan trick is forbidden to use to artificially increase the population. If a city can naturally support size 40, that is fine, but every increase above that natural limit is a no-no! :nono:

Here is a link to a discussion about that topic:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5112&highlight=food+caravan+trick

So, once again,
It is forbidden to use the FCT to grow a city past it´s natural limit in a GOTM!
This is a rule, just like the "no airbases" rule that we agreed on here. :yeah:

You probably mean the normal boost of a city, that would be ok, but no "super cities".
:D
 
Originally posted by Lucky
The food caravan trick is forbidden to use to artificially increase the population. If a city can naturally support size 40, that is fine, but every increase above that natural limit is a no-no! :nono:

Here is a link to a discussion about that topic:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5112&highlight=food+caravan+trick

So, once again,
It is forbidden to use the FCT to grow a city past it´s natural limit in a GOTM!
You probably mean the normal boost of a city, that would be ok, but no "super cities".
:D
My understanding of Food Caravans is the are a natural part of the game. Even in an endgame you should still be able grow your larger cities by shipping food from your colonies (agricultural areas). If you can get enough food caravans going you would be able to get over size 40 without cheating.

I followed the link given for this defenition of Food Caravan Trick supplied by Starlifter

Food Caravans - Yes
Food Caravan Trick - No

NOTE: The FCT is not the same thing as a food caravan. The FCT is using multiple food caravans from a specific source city to a specific destination city to force the destination to grow. This is especially true when forcing the destination to reach sizes that it could not obtain with it's natural food supply.
 
by Old n Slow:
I was unaware of the illegality of the Food Caravan Trick. (I still don't see it in the rules) Given the one month limit on game play and the 2+% depreciation factor in the scoring, I didn't think that the FCT is an efficient method for boosting score anyway.

It's not listed on the Rules Page. Personally, I favor stating everything like that in an easy to locate, central spot, since many GOTMers are not long-timers (and should not have to be). I've asked several times to have things like that explained for all on the Rules page, but it was never done. IMHO, it's better to explain more than less... it saves people effort in the long run.

No one has used the FCT in a GOTM, but just to make sure any new people know.... Food Caravans are OK.... it is using the "trick" part that is not, and it is totally uncool to use Food Caravans to pump a city past where it could grow "naturally".

Mathematically, with shields and/or gold, approximately 80 cities is a good rule of thumb for "break even" FCT growth in a GOTM at about 1500 AD. Exceeding this should result in a net GOTM score gain each turn, until the cities reach size 127.

If anyone would really like to look into how the FCT works on a large scale, Shadowdale's game in the Civ 2 HOF (deity) is a good one to download and examine. It is very time consuming to use in dozens of cities, BTW.

Anyway, the FCT is not a good idea in GOTMs, as everyone (even Shadowdale) has refrained from it since Day 1. If people started using it in GOTMs, I'd personally favor making all such games ineligible for any official awards. The pandora's box of unnatural city sizes in GOTMs would add a great deal of time to the games.

Maybe with Duke of Marlbrough, he might be willing to post more detailed rules so new players would know ahead of time. DoM made some posts last fall asking about various allowable cheats and techniques. Now that he's mod, it might be a good time to post a more communicative list?



DoM's original "List of tricks and cheats" questions are here. Note that most are not actually cheats, but just techniques.

Since the formatting in that post is fouled up from last September's BBS changeover, here is the reprinted list from Duke's original post (my comments are in Italics):
1. Airbases - I know this one is allowed in GOTM. (this was disallowed starting several months ago)
2. Using 'find city' or 'go to' to find undiscovered cities.
3. 'Seeing' unexplored land. (map clicking)
4. Unsinkable Triremes, uncrashable planes. (only works in MGE, said Smash)
5. Irrigation anywhere. (use K function to irrigate with no adjacent water)
6. Seeing enemy's explored land (not trading maps) (using enemy's mini map in a city status screen)
7. Nuclear sponge (nuke trap)
8. Settler/Engineer storage (engineer pre-build & change work)
9. Cargo Shuffle (ship chain)
10. Food Caravan Trick (never was allowed in GOTMs)
To my knowledge, the currently disallowed techniques for GOTMs are: #1, #4, and #10

The most universally disallowed & despised techniques are 4 & 10. To be fair, none on this list require the cheat mode, and are actually exploits at best -- not true "cheats". But 1, 4, and 10 should result in a disqualified game under the current GOTM rules (which are not necessarily easy to locate at this time, but are buried in the threads).


by Lord Valuna:
My understanding of Food Caravans is the are a natural part of the game. Even in an endgame you should still be able grow your larger cities by shipping food from your colonies (agricultural areas). If you can get enough food caravans going you would be able to get over size 40 without cheating.

BTW, the actual limit is size 127, and mainly takes gold and patience and game turns.

In discussions of this sort of topic, I personally shy away from calling things a true "cheat". Food caravans are a part of the game, and were meant to be used if a player wanted them. However, the game does not handle the food routes they way they are supposed to be handled.... specifically, every food caravan delivered should add half a food bin (this part works fine), and should add a food icon to the destination, while removing one (a "-1" ) in the source city. This normally (but not always) works for the first food caravan. Sometimes for a 2nd, if from a diffrerent city. But the third and forth, etc. caravans, do not tally properly, and you can deliver dozens of food caravans without the expected penalties in the source city. There are also ways of negating the established -1 route value, namely by letting game time pass and/or superceeding them with trade routes. These are the essenses of the FCT... delivering food and causing growth (esp. growth beyond what a city could currently do on it's own) without the penalties.

The other issue that is usually blended in for these GOTM discussions is the unnatural size. This is in itself not a cheat, but rather just way GOTMs are agreed to be played: if we started boosting cities to 60 or 80 or 127, the game itself would lose meaning and much of the point of playing would be lost. It is also a check on the FCT.... normal use of food caravans can actually result in the FCT, so if the city is limited to its "natural" size, at least the "unintended" aspect of the FCT does not result in an unrealistic city.

Even before I came to CFC, the king of the FCT (Shadowdale) did not use either the FCT or unnatural cities. In fact, Shadowdale rarely (if ever) even used a food caravan at all in GOTMs. But you can see in this Deity HOF game he knew how to use them. So did players like Andu Indorin, Smash, me, noughmaster, Lucky, and probably most experienced Civ 2 players. No one wants to open the FCT pandora's box and create even more work just to complete a basic game. Indeed, there is no point with mega cities (except wasted "real" time), since it would merely add more work and time each month. However, the HOF allows the FCT if anyone want to knock themselves out (since it's the only way to make mega cities). Sidenote: I think there is some guy at Apolyton attempting a record game with the FCT -- it's taken over 6 months last I heard.

So there are really 3 separate, but closely related issues:

1. Use food caravans = Allowed.
2. Use FCT = Not Allowed (esp. if causing #3).
3. Use Unnaturally Large Cities = Not Allowed.


This preserves the game function of food caravans, while limiting their impact on GOTM play each month.

Note that using multiple food caravans will often technically result in the FCT when simply trying to help a food-short city. This is why #3 is included... the FCT can result from normal usage, so the defining cutoff is don't use food caravans to make cities larger than they could grow on their own, given enough time.

An alternative is to simply forbid food caravans to be delivered as food at all. But that is not the current way things stand, and would need to be discussed among all GOTMers before implementing it (it would be fine by me, BTW).


Last thing... if people would like to change or discuss an aspect of this, then feel free to open a "Food Carvan Trick" or "Food Caravan in GOTMs" thread. All GOTMers can make their input, and Duke of Marlbrough, as the GOTM mod will make the final determination, about a rules change.

:)


EDIT: Clarified several things, including the title of Duke's original post, which is "List of tricks and cheats".
 
Originally posted by starlifter
It's not listed on the Rules Page. Personally, I favor stating everything like that in an easy to locate, central spot, since many GOTMers are not long-timers (and should not have to be).
I second that. It would surely be appreciated by us new comers if the moderator does this. I was not aware of these either. Fortunately, I have not used any of them either.
Here was DoM's original "10 Cheats" questions. Note that most are not actually cheats, but just techniques.
Is there a place to look up the details of these techniques? If not, could you please explain them? I am familiar with some of them. The ones I have never heard of are 2,3,4,6,7. I can guess what 6 is, but the others I am not sure.
 
by Duke of Marbrough & Allan (from link in prior post):
4. You move everybody as normal, but when you move the unit (trireme, plane, etc) leave one point of movement on it. What that does is let triremes go out into deep water without sinking, and gives planes a full tank of gas the following turn.

5. Is talked about in the Scrolls of Ancient Wisdom .

6. You simply have a dip or spy investigate a city, and click "map" in that city's screen--you don't see a detailed map, but you do see a general outlay of their known land.

7. An SDI unit covers the city and everything within three squares of it. The AI knows exactly which cities you have SDI's in and will not waste nukes on them. So, what you do is build a city in the middle of you regular cities (make sure they are within 3 squares of the new city) and put the SDI in there. The comp won't attack the new city, but will attack the older ones even though they are covered by the new city. It uses up their nukes and lets you cover your cities without having to build an SID in each city.

8. Also talked about in the Scrolls of Ancient Wisdom .

9. This is when you move a unit by boat, then wake it up and move it to another boat that is adjacent to the first, which then moves, and so on. You can move a unit across the map in one turn if you had enough boats.

#2: Just use the "Find" or the "Goto" to locate some undiscovered cities. Whatever city is listed in "find" can be located on the map, even if it is unknown territory. The map will center on the as-yet unknown city!

#3. Use the right click function on unknown terrain to determine if it is water or land. With enough clicks, you can outline the coastline!
 
My post back then was a list of 'tricks and cheats', not just cheats. ;) I too was saddened to not see any firm rules posted on the GOTM site, so that post was an attempt to 'lock down' some of the known exploits of the game.

I will certainly add details about what is not allowed in the GOTM to the main pages.

BTW, IIRC, with #9, the ships need to actually be in the same square as each other for you to be able to switch the troops multiple times. If you had them adjacent to each other, you would only be able to switch them once.
 
From another thread in which someone is asking about food caravans and the FCT, I'll add this here, too:
The theoretical largest city is 46, thru natural growth only (no food caravans). All growth past size 41 must be done by filling the food box. I like to time it so that the WLTP day will hit 41 with an alomst full box, and go right to 42.

Here is an example:



The above is a max food "natural" city (92 total natural food). The max citizens it can support is 92/2=46. It would take a very long time to reach size 46, however!
The above is, for all practical purposes, about as big as a city gan get on its own before the end of a Deity game. A food caravan would fill the food box, and on the next turn it would be size 44.


@Duke: You're right about #9, btw. Plus, it can be tricky to do at times, and takes practice to get the right sleeping/nonsleeping units to go correctly, esp. with full transports and a covering ship (like a BB) in the same square.
 
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