pineappledan 4UC report card thread

[Urzamax]

It was this

Spoiler :

UU2 replaced by a Longswordsman replacement
UU2 - Pakayok (replaces Longswordsman)
Unlocked at Construction (instead of Steel)
184 Production cost (+15%)
Doesn't require Iron

22 CS
2 MP / Vision

Discipline
Sun Sentinel - +2 Vision ; +5 hp when healing ; +15% CS against wounded Units

So it looks like it was more expensive and had a very early unlock which is a bit zany.
The Chasqui was changed to a promotion given by the UB which replaced the UI. The Terrace Farm was moved to be available to everyone (!)

Still might be able to build on it, albeit probably without unlocking at Construction. The Sun Sentinel promotion seems reasonable for an Inti/Incan Empire-themed unit, which is broadly what we're going for. I think a Tercio replacement would actually the best way to represent the true Incan Empire (ie the Andes-unifying entity founded by Pachacuti and centered around Cusco) at a time at least slightly closer to its actual historical appearance around the 15th century.

Actually, the mention of the Chasqui promotion makes me think that it might be reasonable to give it to a UU that isn't a Chasqui, representing general cooperation with/logistical ties to them--after all, the Chasqui were messengers, not warriors, but they were invaluable as part of the logistical and therefore military infrastructure of the empire.

 

[KlHannibal2]

I always find it intriguing how much the Yamato class has become a symbol for Japan. It was the most powerful battleship, yes. But it was outdated from the beginning. Carriers were the thing. And Japan did have the best carrier force early in the war. That force won their naval battles, not the battleships. They could as well take pride in that

 

[CppMaster]

It's very iconic, though. In StarCraft, the most advanced unit, BattleCruiser have a Yamato cannon.

 

[Bad_At_Diplomacy]

I thought I was improving as as player, but realize the lowest-graded Civ I play is an A-

Spain hasn't been graded yet, but are an overall S in my mind. Great work on this thread.

 

[Legen]

I always find it intriguing how much the Yamato class has become a symbol for Japan. It was the most powerful battleship, yes. But it was outdated from the beginning. Carriers were the thing. And Japan did have the best carrier force early in the war. That force won their naval battles, not the battleships. They could as well take pride in that

It wasn't outdated when it entered service, but it was about to. The key thing to understand is that the Americans had the largest battleship fleet in the world and centered their naval strategy around that. Japan needed ways to counter that battleship fleet if they were to have a chance in case of a war, and the Yamato class was one of the ideas they put in practice to deal with that, alongside a new doctrine for Carriers and the Long Lance torpedo. Their realistic expectations were that each of these three would wear down the American battleships to varying degrees; it turned out that their new Carrier doctrine performed far beyond their most optimistic expectations.

Also consider that battleships were, at the time, considered the epitome of a nation's technological and military prowess. It is natural that the Yamato class would become a symbol for Japan, similar to how the HMS Hood became the pride and symbol of Great Britain due to being the largest warship in the world for about 20 years.

 

[Urzamax]

I thought I was improving as as player, but realize the lowest-graded Civ I play is an A-

Spain hasn't been graded yet, but are an overall S in my mind. Great work on this thread.

Well, these are grades for the 4UC components specifically, not the civ as a whole, and the grade isn't just about power, so I wouldn't worry too much about what it says about you as a player.

 

[msw1]

It was this

Spoiler :

UU2 replaced by a Longswordsman replacement
UU2 - Pakayok (replaces Longswordsman)
Unlocked at Construction (instead of Steel)
184 Production cost (+15%)
Doesn't require Iron

22 CS
2 MP / Vision

Discipline
Sun Sentinel - +2 Vision ; +5 hp when healing ; +15% CS against wounded Units

So it looks like it was more expensive and had a very early unlock which is a bit zany.
The Chasqui was changed to a promotion given by the UB which replaced the UI. The Terrace Farm was moved to be available to everyone (!)

A buffed medieval era unit in the ancient era...haha no. If you rushed construction that means you'd be able to build this thing before other civs even had walls. It could probably one shot an ungarrisoned city at that point

 

[hokath]

Yeah when I read the unlock tech I assumed it was a typo, lol.
Probably it actually means the tech Masonry. The names of Masonry and Construction are swapped in the code if I remember correctly. For... reasons.

 

[pineappledan]

Added up to Persia.

 

[pineappledan]

Added up to Songhai.
Just 4 more civs left to review.

 

[azum4roll]

Mechanics - A. Pillage CS bonus is an old Danish combat bonus, and the XP on pillage is an old recon unit bonus. Both of these bonuses are now unique to this unit and DLL integrated, making them a pillaging monster.

Commando+ still has XP on pillage.

 

[pineappledan]

Finished my self-criticism of all civ components.

8 Civs that I gave a score of A or higher for their extra components:

• Ethiopia
• France
• Germany
• Indonesia
• Japan
• Rome
• Shoshone
• Venice

7 Civs that I have a score of C or lower for their extra components:

• Arabia
• Austria
• Brazil
• Inca
• India
• Russia
• Sweden

Only gave out 5 F's:

• Lamassu Uniqueness
• Grenzer Mechanics
• Sambadrome Theme
• Chasqui Theme
• Pogost Uniqueness

 

[Agiwan]

I do not see the problem with Lamassu. Yes it is also a wall but the yields are different. We have 43 civs with ~2 ub so it happens to have 2 ub that share the same building. Lamassu feels good with Assyrian kit.

 

[pineappledan]

Lamassu is a lot more thematically strong than “Walls of Babylon”.

“The Arena of Rome”
“The Temple of Byzantium”

 

[Urzamax]

Lamassu is a lot more thematically strong than “Walls of Babylon”.

“The Arena of Rome”
“The Temple of Byzantium”

Out of curiosity, what would you replaces Walls of Babylon with if given the option?

 

[pineappledan]

Probably a Kudurru UI

 

[Urzamax]

Probably a Kudurru UI

Oh, that could be interesting! Would encourage Babylon to consider going Progress and lean into the investment part of their UA instead of always going Tradition for the Scientist slot, too.

 

[Guynemer]

Lamassu is a lot more thematically strong than “Walls of Babylon”.

“The Arena of Rome”
“The Temple of Byzantium”

I would push back on that a bit, some of the earliest list of wonders of the classical world included the Walls of Babylon instead of the Pharos.

A simple change to "Ishtar Gate" would be more semantically pleasing, though.

 

[Heinz_Guderian]

I know you do this partly to review which of the UCs that need a remake, but this has been extremely fun to read through for me. Nothing has made me want to play the game as much in a long time as this, also it made me look up all the UCs and a lot of them have been changed since when I started playing this mod 4,5 years ago.

 

[ma_kuh]

I wanted to start a conversation about removed/repurposed base 2UC components, in anticipation of a "slim VP" version that needs to account for these. Skimming these write ups, it seems like Aztec Floating Gardens (repurposed as Nilometer) and Roman Colosseum (removed) are the only two 2UC kits that are modified. For anyone more familiar with 4UC, is that accurate? Did I miss anything swaps?