19 Unused Trait Combinations

[Antilogic]

Here's another couple leader ideas I was toying with:

Pericles as Creative and Philosophical. I don't think this guy should have warmonger traits, which is why I strayed away from Charismatic. You could argue Protective based on his Peloponnesian War strategy.

As Expansive/Imperialistic, how about a Hittite king like...I think his name was Hattusili I. Not positive on that...my luck, I chose the wrong man in the tree of succession.

 

[kniteowl]

Agg/Cha who here thinks that'd be overpowered? I don't think it's anymore over powered then Toku's Agg/Prot.

Sure you can get a miliatry production city and use all military Civics and plus west point, Heroic Epic and military Academy , Instructors and pentagon and be the ultimate warmonger but I dont think it'd be any better then Toku.

Besides Toku get Drafted Unit with automatic 3 promotions. can you call that not overpowered? You can get 3 of them every turn and amass an army quicker then the Agg/Cha Civ.

So I believe Agg/Cha should be in the next expansion, not sure which leader he'll be though, hopefully not a gunpowder or melee UU. Unless it's extremely weak liek the Aztec Jag.

Edit: I don't know much about history but from a game balance stand point, I think Napolean would suit an Agg/Cha Leader, His UU is the Musketeer and hiis UB is the Salon (replaces Observatory) His UU ain't exactly overpowered and have a short lifespan if you dont beeline to gunpowder that And I miss drafting combat 1 Musketeers LOL

 

[Meatbuster]

Random fact: I found that some of the unused combinations (Aggressive-Charismatic being one of them) are in the Chinese Unification scenario.

 

[Antilogic]

Agg/Cha who here thinks that'd be overpowered? I don't think it's anymore over powered then Toku's Agg/Prot.

Sure you can get a miliatry production city and use all military Civics and plus west point, Heroic Epic and military Academy , Instructors and pentagon and be the ultimate warmonger but I dont think it'd be any better then Toku.

Besides Toku get Drafted Unit with automatic 3 promotions. can you call that not overpowered? You can get 3 of them every turn and amass an army quicker then the Agg/Cha Civ.

So I believe Agg/Cha should be in the next expansion, not sure which leader he'll be though, hopefully not a gunpowder or melee UU. Unless it's extremely weak liek the Aztec Jag.

Edit: I don't know much about history but from a game balance stand point, I think Napolean would suit an Agg/Cha Leader, His UU is the Musketeer and hiis UB is the Salon (replaces Observatory) His UU ain't exactly overpowered and have a short lifespan if you dont beeline to gunpowder that And I miss drafting combat 1 Musketeers LOL

You make a point. I thought it would be a good idea to give Monty Agg/Cha because his UU was considered traditionally weak as an offset. However, they went ahead and buffed the Jaguar, so I don't know if that'll work anymore...I haven't enough experience with the new Jag to comment.

Napoleon was somewhat aggressive to say the least...but I think if you were to change his traits, give him something like Imperialistic--that reflects his nation-building attitude a little more while keeping the offensive nature intact.

 

[WoolyWoolwine83]

I think Imperialist would fit him better then Industrious. Panama Canal, his participation in the Spanish-American war and taking advantage economically of the countries "won" through it.

I was talking more of when he was president rather than a soldier in the Spanish-American War, but other wise you would be right. (And the reason I have industrious is that he commisioned the building of the Panama Canal, but like you said, he could be imperialist.) Expansive/Industrious also fits, but Bismarck already has that.

 

[Antilogic]

Random fact: I found that some of the unused combinations (Aggressive-Charismatic being one of them) are in the Chinese Unification scenario.

I didn't see this earlier, so I'll comment now.

The Chinese Unification scenario is strange to say the least. Everyone's a warmonger, basically--I don't think anyone is without at least one of the warmonger traits...I only remember seeing Aggressive, Charismatic, Financial, Imperialistic, and Protective. Nothing else (unless I missed a Civ I didn't play).

 

[Meatbuster]

IMO the lack of many economic traits just makes AGG-CHM all the more powerful in the scenario. AGG-CHM (or AGG-PRO, etc.) puts a civ at an economic disadvantage, but it matters less when 3-4 of the opponents are more-or-less equally crippled.

In that scenario, I prefer to play on the left side (the Qin I think) because of the easily-repelled barbarian invasions, but I digress.

 

[SkyknightXi]

Protective? A warmonger's trait? More like anti-warmonger, given the cheapness of walls and castles on the one hand, and the free City Defense I on the other ("You just TRY and get in here, Mr. Conqueror!")...

Back to Sejong...I suppose Protective could be justified, given that his main military campaign seems to have had the express purpose of Dealing With the Japanese pirates (and privateers?) who operated out of Tsushima. He also shored up the Chinese border in order to keep out Manchurian raiders. Nor was he a shrinking violet about military technology (mostly artillery, though--not the personal missile weapons that Protective specializes in).

As for whether to choose Creative or Philosophical (if Protective is justified in the first place, anyway...), I'm a bit torn. Sejong was a great patron of science and artificing (q.v. Jang Yeong-Sil), but I don't know which side of the Creative/Philosophical divide those would fall under. Likewise hangul.

 

[kristopherb]

Protective? A warmonger's trait? More like anti-warmonger, given the cheapness of walls and castles on the one hand, and the free City Defense I on the other ("You just TRY and get in here, Mr. Conqueror!")...

Back to Sejong...I suppose Protective could be justified, given that his main military campaign seems to have had the express purpose of Dealing With the Japanese pirates (and privateers?) who operated out of Tsushima. He also shored up the Chinese border in order to keep out Manchurian raiders. Nor was he a shrinking violet about military technology (mostly artillery, though--not the personal missile weapons that Protective specializes in).

As for whether to choose Creative or Philosophical (if Protective is justified in the first place, anyway...), I'm a bit torn. Sejong was a great patron of science and artificing (q.v. Jang Yeong-Sil), but I don't know which side of the Creative/Philosophical divide those would fall under. Likewise hangul.

use it correctly and reep the befits,i my opinion char/pro(redcoats) is better than agg/char.(more promos)

 

[Watiggi]

With an Agg/Cha leader, you could get Combat V infantry units with only 13xp.

Spoiler :

A (cheap) Barracks (3xp), Vassalage (2xp), Theocracy (2xp), Instructor (2xp), Westpoint (or two other Instructors) (4xp) gives 13xp or Combat V Infantry or Riflemen.

Even in the early era - without GG's or Westpoint - melee units would be built with Combat III and only be 1xp away from Combat IV. This is before the first GG.

And that doesn't take into account the synergy mounted units have with Charismatic. Agg/Cha can build Combat III Horse Archers units before GG's are born or Combat IV Cavalry units with Westpoint.

Spoiler :

Charismatic, (cheap) Barracks (3xp), Stable (2xp), Vassalage (2xp) and Theocracy (2xp) gives all mounted units Combat III. With Westpoint (or 2 GG's) (4xp) gives 13xp - Combat IV mounted units.

And this doesn't take into account the extra promotions gained during combat (including the xp gained from Warlords - which could result in more promotions for a Charismatic leader).

So basically, after Theocracy and Vassalage but before any GG's, melee units can come out 1xp away from Combat IV and mounted units can come out at Combat III - all of which still have the xp reduction bonus when they go to war.

I don't know about you, but you can get Theocracy with a Great Prophet easily and Fedualism with a slingshot. Both of these techs, and the Oracle (for the slingshot), and the Great Prophet, all come from the 'Mysticism path'.

Spoiler :

Research Monarchy before building the Oracle. Get a Great Prophet (Mysticism gives Stonehendge which can give a Prophet). Then use the Prophet to get Theocracy. The required techs should pretty much have been researched so that it should go straight to Theocracy as a choice for the Prophet.

The Omen scenario also has an Agg/Cha leader there too.

 

[kniteowl]

So basically, after Theocracy and Vassalage but before any GG's, melee units can come out 1xp away from Combat IV and mounted units can come out at Combat III - all of which still have the xp reduction bonus when they go to war.

LOL but don't ALL Charismatic Leaders have the ability to get Combat 3 mounted units under those circumstance? Now if Aggressive also gave cheap Stables then this combination would be insanely overpowered.

I don't know if your implying that the Agg/Cha is overpowered but if it is I'd like to see it proven in actual gameplay, the best Civ to use would be India since it doesn't have a Combat UU for the unit to benefit from the traits and to compare Agg/Cha Civ's unit to Non Agg/Cha Civ unit and UU.

Now if the Agg/Cha Leader's Units were more powerful then the UU's of other Civs it'd definitely be overpowered.

 

[Agarwaen]

The problem with Agg/Cha is that, besides the happines bonus, there aren't any builder traits.
It's hard to keep those conquests

 

[kniteowl]

The problem with Agg/Cha is that, besides the happines bonus, there aren't any builder traits.
It's hard to keep those conquests

You could say the same for Agg/Prot, Cha/Imp, Agg/Imp. For Imp the settler bonus isnt that great, once the settler expansion is over it's more or less useless. Besides there are already plenty of methods to keep those conquered cities (eg - courthouses, currency etc) their just more expensive. Besides stoping the powerful warmonger trait combination Agg/Cha from overexpanding is a good thing is it not?

 

[Mr. Civtastic]

Cottage spam like youve never cottage spammed before. Trade for happiness...shouldnt be hard with all the resources youve conquered. And you should be able to build temples for just about every religion. And you could focus a gp farm on great merchants.

Just like that, money and happiness arent so bad.

 

[Alkazar]

where are the good old Sioux and Babylonian?

Sitting Bull : Spiritual/Protective
Hammuraby: Philosophical/Organized

For the Viking, we could add Leif Erikson, who settled in Greenland and Newfoundland (Expansive/Aggresive)

What about Byzzantium? And Should we add the Maori of New-Zeland?

 

[Agarwaen]

You could say the same for Agg/Prot, Cha/Imp, Agg/Imp. For Imp the settler bonus isnt that great, once the settler expansion is over it's more or less useless. Besides there are already plenty of methods to keep those conquered cities (eg - courthouses, currency etc) their just more expensive. Besides stoping the powerful warmonger trait combination Agg/Cha from overexpanding is a good thing is it not?

You have some points...

A civ with this combination and an agressive UU would be overpowered, but still i would like to see it in some civ...

 

[Mr. Civtastic]

Protective? A warmonger's trait? More like anti-warmonger, given the cheapness of walls and castles on the one hand, and the free City Defense I on the other ("You just TRY and get in here, Mr. Conqueror!")...

It leans towards defense definately, but the first strikes are offensive in nature. As I learned playing with the Chinese, stacking that free first strike from Protective with some Drill promotions makes for some nasty units that will kill lots of units without taking damage.

I think you can make the argument that protective's promotions are more helpful then Aggresive. You definatly would have better city defense, and first strikes are underrated.

 

[kniteowl]

You have some points...

A civ with this combination and an agressive UU would be overpowered, but still i would like to see it in some civ...

Well obviously an Agressive UU would bge overpowered for this trait combination, so it'd have to be assigned to a civ that doesn't have a melee or gunpowder UU so they don't benefit from the Aggressive Trait or a non-combat UU like india's fast worker or a very weak melee or gunpowder UU like the Aztec Jag or the french Musketeer (short life span).

 

[ferenginar]

George Bush and Tony Blair.

Dumb / Dumber

 

[dguichar]

What are the benefits of those traits? If there were no benefits, then they should be no traits