19 Unused Trait Combinations

[kniteowl]

Here's something to debate/argue about, By the way this is from a game play/balance point of view I'm no good at history, never took the subject at school.

Anywayz, What would you guys think of an Exp/Fin India? Overpowered??? maybe.

Sure you can pump out those fast workers quickly and expand but by the time you get to city number 6, maintainance cost will stop you.

Cottage spamming with fast workers because of your financial trait? Well depending on what difficulty level you play there will always be that happiness cap preventing you from working all those cottages.

Although this synergetic combination of traits and UU would make quite a powerful builder, you can't always build or the warmonger next door will come at you with his/her SOD and crush you.

These combinations won't become quite powerful untill the Classic/Middle ages when you increase that happiness cap from calander, Drama, monarchy and Metal Casting and become a Financial powerhouse.

I can see this leader being quite good at cultural victory, commerce from cottages and +2 health would benefit the GP farm meaning you can add an extra 2 Artist specialist if you have enough surplus food.

So what do you think?

Note: I purposely ignore historical significants... Like i said no good at history

 

[Watiggi]

Well obviously an Agressive UU would bge overpowered for this trait combination, so it'd have to be assigned to a civ that doesn't have a melee or gunpowder UU so they don't benefit from the Aggressive Trait or a non-combat UU like india's fast worker or a very weak melee or gunpowder UU like the Aztec Jag or the french Musketeer (short life span).

Wow! The Jaguar with Aggressive AND Charismatic That would be quite big.

Re: India with Exp/Fin. I found Exp/Imp to be interesting. Cheap settlers and cheap workers made for a rather quick expansion.

 

[kniteowl]

Wow! The Jaguar with Aggressive AND Charismatic That would be quite big.

Re: India with Exp/Fin. I found Exp/Imp to be interesting. Cheap settlers and cheap workers made for a rather quick expansion.

Exp/Imp Would be interesting to play, you'd pick up all the best city locations, although the traits wouldn't be useful in a starting loaction where you're blocked off from land by the AI

 

[Dnomal]

Wouldn't there be a danger of an Imp/Exp civ settling in all the critical locations, especially in MP.

Backtracking i think having Constantine in the game would be a good decision how about:

Constantine:
Spiritual/Imperialistic
Favourite Civic: Beuracracy

He did relocate the capital of the empire after all.

Furthermore i have to say something that people minght not like, the adding of Teddy Rossevelt or JFK would be a waste of time, since they had no real long lasting impact on world history. Unlike say Napolean who changed Europe and so therefore the world irrepoviably.

Another thing its been mentioned before that Hitler should be entered into the next expansion, something i disagree with, since not only was he a vicous dictator, but unlike everyother ruler in history he killed millions for what they were(race), not what they'd done(or suspected to have done e.g Stalin.)

 

[Thedrin]

The Following unused Traits Combinations are in Alphabetical order:
*= Trait combinations originally available in vanilla Civ4.
.
.
3 Charismatic/Creative
.
.

Basically I just want to hear People Opinions and Ideas.

I would suggest no one. I suspect it may have the strongest negative trait synergy in the game.

 

[Tavenier]

That's why I suggested the crazy emperor.
He started a worldwar but is less controversial.

Wilhelm II started WW1? Strange, I thought Austria and Serbia started it.

 

[Thedrin]

Austria and Serbia started a regional war in south east Europe. Wilhelm is generally (and quite accurately in my view) blamed for turning it into a world war by endorsing policies that drew Britain and France into the fighting.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Wilhelm II started WW1? Strange, I thought Austria and Serbia started it.

I doubt that Austria would have declared war on Serbia if Wilhelm hadn't encouraged them.
He was to a great deal responsible for the escalation of the conflict.

 

[razzer99]

Using suggestions from this thread and my own research, I've devised the following list:

Aggressive/Charismatic - no one, forbidden combo
Aggressive/Organized - Spain - Philip V (started alot of wars, reformed and consolidated laws)
Charismatic/Creative - Greece - Pericles (excellent statesman and military commander, alot of cultural works)
Charismatic/Industrious - Germany - Hitler (Cha = Nazi propoganda)
Charismatic/Philosophical - Arabs - Zenobia (militant and beautiful, Hellenized)
Creative/Expansive - Carthage - Dido (founded Carthage, peaceful)
Creative/Financial - ???
Creative/Philosophical - Ottoman - Suleiman (golden age for Ottoman Empire)
Creative/Protective - Korea - Sejong
Expansive/Financial - Persia - Darius
Expansive/Imperialistic - America - Andrew Jackson (America needed a beligerant ******* leader, greatly increased executive powers, Indian removal)
Financial/Organized - no one, forbidden combo
Imperialistic/Industrious - Japan - Meiji (industrialized japan, beginings of Japanese imperialism in the Pacific)
Imperialistic/Philosophical - India - Akbar
Imperialistic/Protective - Rome - Hadrian (Rome at its height area wise, believed in peace through strength, built a wall across England)
Imperialistic/Spiritual - Viking - Canute (conquered England, big on the Christianity and the Pope)
Industrious/Philosophical - no one, forbidden combo
Organized/Protective - Celts - Boudica
Philosophical/Protective - France - Francis I (humanist, built alot of castles, surrounded by and tried to defend against Habsburgs)

I can't seem to come up with a Cre/Fin leader which the only one left Does anyone have any suggestions?

My criteria for the list was no new civilizations created, no duplicate trait combos, try to vary the traits among the civilizations, and include some female leaders. I'd love to make this into a full fledged mod.

Edit: I should say another goal was to not change any of the current leaders.

 

[Meatbuster]

That's a lot of leaders you suggested, good work!

I think FIN/CRE and PHI/CRE are also now forbidden combos because of the tremendous advantage of a fast library from Creative.

 

[Lance of Llanwy]

I re-arranged the following leaders....

Mao Zedong from Exp/Pro to Chm/Phi. Charismatic mostly due to the whole Long March deal, the fact he WAS something of a military leader, and in spite of the tragedies that occurred during his rule(I'm not going to debate how much blame he deserves or anything of the sort) he was and still is perceived of very positively by the Chinese people. Philosophical because it seems to fit with his thoughts on communism and his application of them. There is little question he was revolutionary and came up with his own ideology. Exp/Pro is just...well, WAY off the mark, IMO.

Qin Shi Huang Di from Ind/Pro to Ind/Agg. He was a ruthless conqueror, not a happy defender. Industrious fits. I also made him less friendly and more war-like in general.

Stalin to Pro/Ind. Had to go somewhere, and he fought a mostly defensive war with the Nazi's and didn't seem particularly interested in taking the initiative against them, preferring to sit back and prepare for a defensive war. Still boosts the gunpowder units, so, IMO, still fits pretty well. Kept personality the same...should be stand-offish and aggressive.

For my part, I would probably add....
Greece: Perikles- Cre/Phi. A builder version that represents the (slightly)more peaceful, grandiose golden age of Attic Greece rather than the more martial cultures of Sparta and Makedonia. Industrious works too, but Ind/Phi is broken and Ind/Cre is already taken(though perhaps Louis would be better off Imperialistic....)

Tecumseh would work, if they could work him in somehow. Fits Pro/Org beautifully. I don't think Boudicca does as good a job, but, again...Tecumseh has a problem, as he doesn't come from a prominent Native American tribe like the Iroquois...

 

[Watiggi]

IQin Shi Huang Di from Ind/Pro to Ind/Agg. He was a ruthless conqueror, not a happy defender. Industrious fits. I also made him less friendly and more war-like in general.

I think the idea with Qin being Ind/Pro was because he built the Great Wall. His aggression and military agenda was internal - not against other countries. His way of dealing with other countries was to build the Great Wall. In that perpective, it fits. Admitedly I know little about him, but I do know that he was ruthless and cruel in military matters. But, again, those military matters were with the Chinese. He dealt with outsiders by building a Wall so that he wouldn't have to defend himself from them. The games perspective revolves around how the leaders treated other countries/civs/leaders. Qin wasn't aggressive towards them and was infact defensive with them. The Chinese Unification scenario has him appropriately as Aggressive/Charismatic. The scope of the game is Chinese though, not international.

Until I figured this out, I had always wondered why Firaxis made Qin less aggressive considering his history.

 

[PibbZ]

• Financial/Organized - Muhammed Ali (Egypt) / Hammurabi (Babylonia)

GIVE! *drool*

 

[Lance of Llanwy]

I think the idea with Qin being Ind/Pro was because he built the Great Wall. His aggression and military agenda was internal - not against other countries. His way of dealing with other countries was to build the Great Wall. In that perpective, it fits. Admitedly I know little about him, but I do know that he was ruthless and cruel in military matters. But, again, those military matters were with the Chinese. He dealt with outsiders by building a Wall so that he wouldn't have to defend himself from them. The games perspective revolves around how the leaders treated other countries/civs/leaders. Qin wasn't aggressive towards them and was infact defensive with them. The Chinese Unification scenario has him appropriately as Aggressive/Charismatic. The scope of the game is Chinese though, not international.

Until I figured this out, I had always wondered why Firaxis made Qin less aggressive considering his history.

It makes sense, put like that, but it's just one of those things I just generally disagree with. The soldiers of Qin were ferocious and brutal fighters as well, and Qin is more reminiscent of a Genghis Khan type(except less just and merciful), but...I am biased. Though I'm not Chinese, I love China's history and feel strongly about it...

 

[Yeekim]

Stalin to Pro/Ind. Had to go somewhere, and he fought a mostly defensive war with the Nazi's and didn't seem particularly interested in taking the initiative against them, preferring to sit back and prepare for a defensive war. Still boosts the gunpowder units, so, IMO, still fits pretty well. Kept personality the same...should be stand-offish and aggressive.

I'd hate to turn this thread into a history debate, but as it seems that you are somewhat interested in history, I'd love to point out a very different opinion.
Check out this article, for example.
http://www.answers.com/topic/viktor-suvorov
Also, check out books like "Day M", "Icebreaker" or "Suicide".

All in all, that probably means that XXth century is by far too controversial to be including its leaders into a game like that...
Cheers

 

[Watiggi]

It makes sense, put like that, but it's just one of those things I just generally disagree with. The soldiers of Qin were ferocious and brutal fighters as well, and Qin is more reminiscent of a Genghis Khan type(except less just and merciful), but...I am biased. Though I'm not Chinese, I love China's history and feel strongly about it...

Yeah, I agree. The game does loose alot of the essence that was Qin with it being Pro/Ind (and the old Fin/Ind).

 

[knigh+]

Mustafa Kemal Ataturk is an obvious example of Aggressive/Charismatic. If leaders were to have 3 traits, his third would be Creative.

 

[kniteowl]

I would suggest no one. I suspect it may have the strongest negative trait synergy in the game.

why is that? It's a little similar to Agg/Cre Kubai Khan isn't?? You don't have to worry about building culture buildings in your recently captured cities as their broaders would pop in 5 turns after anarchy.

And the Happiness from both traits would help alot in fighting War weariness (Pre Jails, Police State and Mt Rushmore), with cheap happiness buildings combined with free happiness from charismatic.

 

[Thedrin]

The monument. You either lose out on a big part of the creative trait or, depending on resources, a small to big part of the charismatic trait

For me, the most powerful aspect of the creative trait is the free border expansions in the very early game. A creative civ building monuments in all of its cities* loses out on a large amount of that traits power.

Charismatic civs get 1 free happiness from building the monument. A charismatic civ loses out on 50% of the pre-calender happiness bonus by not building monuments in its cities.

*Since the obelisk is unlikely to be built in more than one city - a city with a large enough population to use the priest specialists - Hatshepsut doesn't lose much of the creative traits bonus.

 

[kniteowl]

Is the extra happiness from monuments with the Charismatic trait that important? It has quite a short lifespan as it becomes obsolete with calander, I'd either rush Stonehedge or ignore monuments entirely since I'm creative.

I Dunno about you but I assume most people play the Charismatic trait for the Cheap Promotions, not so much from the free happiness from certain buildings.

Sure in the monument aspect of Cha/Cre it has a negative Synergy but in the long term, I think Cheap Promotions, longer wars because of higher Happiness cap would make this combination quite an adequate warmonger combination. I Guess you could call this trait combination a "double edged sword" having both negative and positive benefits, kind of like Spi/Org.