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1st game at Emperor

I've never thought about this with the Maya - it's a fantastic idea.
Thank you BB. It’s very rare that I come up with anything ‘new’ (probably nothing new under the Sun here). I once got a javelin-thrower army early on. Parked it on a mountain near a barb spawn & rattled up numerous slaves when the hordes attacked. The barbs aren’t good at figuring the odds :D
 
Playing Ottomans/Standard/Continents, and having a major difficult time keeping up on tech. Big reason: I can trade it away, but I'm militarily "weak" compared to the Civs ahead of me and they won't trade tech to me. And since the two militarily strongest Civs, the friendly Celts and the mostly-friendly Iroquois, are nearby, going to war with them is not feasible - I'd get creamed. Not sure how to pick up the pace, here. Currently toward the end of the Industrial Age, but I'm in the middle working on Mass Production right now.

P.S.: missed the big stuff, like the Republic slingshot and ToE, which means no Atomic Theory or Electronics and won't get Hoover's for sure.

Thoughts?
 
If you have RepParts already(? You should, if you're already doing MassProd), then you shouldn't get creamed. Infs + Arty can defend against pretty much everything in the Industrial, but even Rambos can hold their own if fortified in a good defensive position, and backed up by some guns.

And though they are expensive, if you can also build Sipahi, you've got an excellent chance of generating some Leaders by attacking redlined enemy units running for cover. Once you've got some Sip-Armies, you can start making some headway against the Celts and Iros -- if that's what you want -- or you could provoke a war against the other continent, and get them to help you fight it.
 
If you have RepParts already(? You should, if you're already doing MassProd), then you shouldn't get creamed. Infs + Arty can defend against pretty much everything in the Industrial, but even Rambos can hold their own if fortified in a good defensive position, and backed up by some guns.

And though they are expensive, if you can also build Sipahi, you've got an excellent chance of generating some Leaders by attacking redlined enemy units running for cover. Once you've got some Sip-Armies, you can start making some headway against the Celts and Iros -- if that's what you want -- or you could provoke a war against the other continent, and get them to help you fight it.
Yes, I have RepParts. I have a bunch of Sipahi spread around (several in former Aztec towns, right before the Celts took out their last town) and am working on Infs+Arty. No armies have generated yet, not sure of the conditions for that.
 
Care to post a save, so we can see exactly what you're up against and maybe make some more concrete suggestions?

Or even have go at rescuing the game, like@CKS and I did with that Mongol Monarch Pangaea game you played a couple of years back?
 
Care to post a save, so we can see exactly what you're up against and maybe make some more concrete suggestions?

Or even have go at rescuing the game, like@CKS and I did with that Mongol Monarch Pangaea game you played a couple of years back?
Here's my latest save file. Considering continuing to build up my forces to launch an assault against the Iroquois.
 

Attachments

Having a 18:26 disadvantage at population vs. the Iroquois with them having 5000+ gold is rather unfavourable. All in all the state of your empire is rather disorganized. The Iroquois are in the modern age. Your military consists of one pikeman, one longbowman, 12 musketman, 11 knights, 29 Sipahi, 11 infantry, 3 Guerilla and 1 artillery. Some of those units are just regular 3/3 and not veteran. Your empire is stretched over many islands, each shared with other nations. A large portion of your cities are below the size they should be at and the settling pattern is suboptimal, too.

Trying to salvage that situation may be possible and must involve a war with the celts and everyone else against the Iroquios after 10+ turns of mobilization. But all in all i would rather start a new game and optimize the first 100 to 150 turns instead of proceeding here.
 
The biggest problem I've run into ... and this is my first real Emperor game ... is that no one would trade tech to me for the most part, so it's been impossible for me to catch up, especially after missing the Republic slingshot & ToE. Would the inability to trade for tech be related to military strength?
 
Having a 18:26 disadvantage at population vs. the Iroquois with them having 5000+ gold is rather unfavourable.
Also, at Monarch & below, I got used to being the one with higher pop & gold, so I'm not sure what happened this game.
 
Would the inability to trade for tech be related to military strength?
Not usually. If you can afford the AI's asking price, even your strongest or bitterest enemy would usually still be willing to trade with you.

On the other hand, if you busted your trade-rep at some point by breaking a deal where you were paying per-turn (GPT or resources) for up-front goods (tech or lump-sum), then you will find it difficult if not impossible to make any similar deals afterwards.

And that's regardless of whether that first deal was broken deliberately (e.g. you knowingly declared on a trade-partner), carelessly (e.g. you went broke and the game sold your only Harbour, or you got dragged into an MPP-war), or even if it was beyond your control (e.g. your trade-partner lost their only Harbour, or their resource-access).
 
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Not usually. If you can afford the AI's asking price, even your bitterest enemy would usually still be willing to trade with you.

On the other hand, if you busted your trade-rep at some point by breaking a deal where you were paying per-turn (GPT or resources) for up-front goods (tech or lump-sum), then you will find it difficult if not impossible to make any similar deals afterwards.

And that's regardless of whether that first deal was broken deliberately (e.g. you knowingly declared on a trade-partner), carelessly (e.g. you went broke and the game sold your only Harbour, or you got dragged into an MPP-war), or even if it was beyond your control (e.g. your trade-partner lost their only Harbour, or their resource-access).
Hm. Something must have happened I didn't know about, then, or at least didn't notice. Tech trading has been difficult to impossible throughout this entire game. If not for that I could have been at least even with the AI if not slightly ahead. Oh well, next time, I guess.
 
You can test whether your rep's broken by finding an AI with lots of gold, asking for, say, 100 lump-sum, and offering 6-7 GPT for it in return (120-140 gold total repayment). If that would be "insulting", then your rep is busted.
 
Also, at Monarch & below, I got used to being the one with higher pop & gold, so I'm not sure what happened this game.
You failed to start a war against your strongest scientific competitor(s) in a timely manner. The Iroquios have rocketry. There are many other details that donnot add up, but not eliminating your strongest rivals is key for lagging behind.
You can test whether your rep's broken by finding an AI with lots of gold, asking for, say, 100 lump-sum, and offering 6-7 GPT for it in return (120-140 gold total repayment). If that would be "insulting", then your rep is busted.
The trade rep does indeed seem to be broken. That makes gaining a strong position even harder.
 
You can test whether your rep's broken by finding an AI with lots of gold, asking for, say, 100 lump-sum, and offering 6-7 GPT for it in return (120-140 gold total repayment). If that would be "insulting", then your rep is busted.
Iroquois. "They would never accept such a deal." So yeah, totally busted. :sad:
You failed to start a war against your strongest scientific competitor(s) in a timely manner. The Iroquios have rocketry. There are many other details that donnot add up, but not eliminating your strongest rivals is key for lagging behind.
Well, I'm a coward when it comes to making war unless I have overwhelming force, and I've never been able to put that together this game, since I've lagged behind on tech pretty much since the beginning. I suppose I should change that.
The trade rep does indeed seem to be broken. That makes gaining a strong position even harder.
Seems like abandoning the game & starting a new one might be the better option.
 
You were in an unenviable spot. Started next to two of the UU I hate to be near me. You were on the coast and they were fairly close iirc. You would have been hard pressed on any option other than try to get a rush on one of them right away and hope the other would either stay out or join you. I hate to be on the coast as my capitol just lost a lot of tiles that could have
produced shields.

Even, if it went well, it may not work. It would be hard to get many towns and to defend them so early. You may have been able to get two and get favorable peace. Then build up some more and rinse and repeat.

One thing I always try to do is as I start research on Steam, I want to cut down all of trees. Get the shields and make way for rails and mines. I should have had the trees chopped and replaced with mines or irrigated sooner, most of them anyway. Trees near my capitol so late in the game, not for me.
 
I meant to suggest looking for one of the games listed for SG training. They do a great job of showing how to get started when playing at level that is new to you.

Here is one I recall reading https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/tr02-losers-move-up-to-emporer.112077/
Most of the threads no longer having screen shots or saves, if they are posted, before the GREAT loss of files.
 
Iroquois. "They would never accept such a deal." So yeah, totally busted.
No, "They would never accept..." is the Foreign Advisor's response when the deal-terms you've suggested can't currently be fulfilled.

e.g. the trade-table screen allows you to offer GPT payments greater than your current per-turn income -- but the AI knows you don't have that money to spend, so will not accept such a deal. This is why you should temporarily reduce one or even both of your sliders before you start negotiations, so that from the AI's PoV, you appear to have (lots of) positive GPT.

(If you forget to do that, you don't need to cancel the negotiations, btw: by clicking on the Foreign Advisor's face in the top right, you can go to the F4 screen, which then gives you access to the F1 screen [Domestic Advisor] via the Advisor-heads in the left margin)

But if you've got plenty of income to cover a proposed payment, and you're offering a fair return -- such as buying 100g from them for 6-7 GPT -- and your foreign advisor still says that they would find that "insulting", that's when you know your rep is toast.
 
No, "They would never accept..." is the Foreign Advisor's response when the deal-terms you've suggested can't currently be fulfilled.

e.g. the trade-table screen allows you to offer GPT payments greater than your current per-turn income -- but the AI knows you don't have that money to spend, so will not accept such a deal. This is why you should temporarily reduce one or even both of your sliders before you start negotiations, so that from the AI's PoV, you appear to have (lots of) positive GPT.
I am already generating +30GPT, though, so 6-7 is easily doable. If I go high enough, it's "I doubt they will accept this proposal," though when I tried last night I did get an "insulted." But I got "doubt" even when I ran the offer up to 100GPT, so it seems I'm toast for all practical purposes.
 
Apologies if I've missed something in this thread but I consider this game is entirely winnable and I'm surprised to see people say you should bin it as I consider you have done the 'hard yards'.

I consider that the default Civ3 difficulty is broken and if you can get past mid-medieval anywhere remotely in the same league as the leading AI on territory, tech & population then victory should never be discounted. The AI is not a late game beast until Deity difficulty. Catching up on tech is entirely do-able if you aren't too far behind and it is so easy to dogpile the AI with Military Alliances and Mutual Protection Pacts once you get caught up on tech. The only exception to the above is when your leading AI competitor is impregnable on a large landmass of their own.

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As above, 6k gold, +132 gold per turn and 90% science - so teching in 6 turns in modern era. Trade reps can improve fairly quickly. I caught up with all Civs except Iroquois on tech (although just 2x techs behind him in the turn screenshotted above) and could easily orchestrate a dogpile against him once his MPP with Arabia expires. Space Race victory seems highly questionable unless Iroqouis are decimated. So military campaign is required. With a dogpile you may not need much navy though given the reasonable strength of the other AIs.

The strengths in your save game

- You have an excellent range of resources and luxuries and willing buyers, in part due to your conquests (not bad for someone on their first game at this difficulty and reluctant to fight).
- You have successfully prevented a killer AI on either of the 2x main continents. There is no runaway leader and this makes playing catch up so much easier.
- You are in touching distance on tech and are scientific, so once you overtake an AI on tech they should not be able to get back infront of you. So at that point the AI bankrolls your military and city modernisation.
- You are industrious, so managing pollution and upgrading to railway should be fairly swift and inexpensive in terms of unit support.
- Nobody seems to hate you and/or your military is sufficient to deter the AI from attacking you.

What I did and would recommend (if you are happy to go for a space race victory)

- keep paying for coal until you have railed everywhere.
- take any RoP you can get to bolster your diplomatic relations.
- MPP Iroquois in short term and Celts & Byzantines in the short to medium term (the way to lose this game is to be attacked by one of your neighbours). Once you think Celts, Byzantines and yourself are able to defend (e.g. all have TOW infantry and/or Mech Inf) do not renew MPP with Iroquois.
- tech trade with Greeks and Byzantines and get to Modern Era as fast as possible for your free tech at which point you may be able to tech trade with Japan, Arabia & Celts (no teching optional techs).
- trade resources you only have 1x or if you aren't going to use them (e.g. saltpeter, horses). You need the money!
- focus on scientific buildings for culture, borders and teching purposes and utilise your scientific trait. Focus on libraries for any conquered city at risk of flipping.
- on core / productive cities also prioritise factories so you are in good shape when war and space race comes.
- race to minituarisation and focus on commercial docks, offshore platform and commercial buildings if you have time before Iroqouis look poised for a Space Race victory.
- don't decrease your military, it isn't too expensive and is a good deterrent.
- don't worry about a culture flip or two at your expense but stick as many units as possible (out of your existing ones) into border cities that are at a risk of flipping. Especially if they have a luxury or resource.
- build civil defence, SAM battery on key cities and those bordering Iroquois.
- ensure Celts & Byzantines in particular have every resource they might need to have a modern military before you go gangbusters on the Iroquois.

What I would do after 1762

- build a basic navy to enable transfer of defensive units to colonies just prior to war, but do not overly invest in defending any of these unless they have a critical resource attached.
- TOW infantry and Mech Inf your border with Iroquois, and probably a few defensive submarines.
- wait until Iroquois have no MPP with a major rival and MPP with Byzantine, Celts as a must. Japan and Arabia also highly desirable for a MPP as they will pick off Iroquois's navy and colonies, but it may be much cheaper to get a military alliance with these two once war is declared.
- make sure you have no active trade deals with Iroqouis and declare war by cancelling your peace treaty (under 'active' deals in the Iroquois diplomacy screen). Then fortify a couple of defensive units on your side of the border at different points neighbouring the Iroqouis (so he attacks you on your territory and activates your MPPs).
- if it helps to convince allies into an MPP and/or military alliance try an embargo against the Iroquois. The AI do so love embargoes for reasons that aren't abundantly clear.
- hang in there and don't worry if you lose a city or two as some of your ones on the Iroquois border aren't great. Once you have enough defensive units get bombers and strong offensive units on line to destroy any foes before they got on your land, but really the goal for me in this game would not be to take as many Iroquois cities as possible, but to keep my economy strong and be pushing for the space race whilst the rest of the world descends into utter chaos.
- Keep teching so you can bribe any reluctant ally that makes peace with Iroquois back into the fight.
- get Iroquois curtailed to such an extent that they are not a threat in the space race, then pick that victory condition for yourself.
- try not to go into a score lead as that will result in the AI starting to hate you and increase the risk of war.
- get governors to manage unhappiness and emphasise production (save your brain power and energy for war and diplomacy and make the end game less of a chore)
 
Trade reps can improve fairly quickly.
No, it cannot.

Apologies if I've missed something in this thread but I consider this game is entirely winnable
I donnot disagree. And there are different approaches to it. One is to utilize espionage as a cheap alternative to research. That does however carry diplomatic risk and is therefore only viable when the risk of war against the Iroquois is deemed acceptable.
 
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