1upt

[Ex.plode]

In my opinion this is one of the best additions to the franchise, SOD's were incredibly annoying in previous titles. And I find that wars are much more fun, very strategical, and you have to have your unit's in a good location to do well.


I'm pretty sure there is alot of people who dislike this, but I'm a pretty big fan

 

[Helmling]

While it does add a tactical dimension to the game, it's one that's completely misaligned with the geographic scale, hence the problem of archers firing on targets 500 miles away. Also, I find the log jams of units much more frustrating than SODs ever were.

There were far better ways to deal with the SOD problem and even ways that would have increased the tactical depth of the game. All of those have been discussed to death, however. In fact, you'd best prepare for some flamage in response to creating the 457th separate thread on this issue.

 

[Ex.plode]

While it does add a tactical dimension to the game, it's one that's completely misaligned with the geographic scale, hence the problem of archers firing on targets 500 miles away. Also, I find the log jams of units much more frustrating than SODs ever were.

There were far better ways to deal with the SOD problem and even ways that would have increased the tactical depth of the game. All of those have been discussed to death, however. In fact, you'd best prepare for some flamage in response to creating the 457th separate thread on this issue.

I've got my flame suit on, I'm pretty new to these forums and just wanted to throw out my opinion and possibly get some input

 

[General Tso]

For what it's worth, I agree with you 100%. 1upt is good.

 

[anandus]

I also agree that 1upt is good. The SOD was awful.
Everything is better than an SOD, although I'm open to other options as well (through mods for instance), such as, for instance, 3UPT.

 

[Montov]

In my opinion this is one of the best additions to the franchise, SOD's were incredibly annoying in previous titles. And I find that wars are much more fun, very strategical, and you have to have your unit's in a good location to do well.


I'm pretty sure there is alot of people who dislike this, but I'm a pretty big fan

It is not strategical, but tactical.

But I agree with 1UPT. Yes, it creates some micromanagement at times, but every system has its disadvantage.
And I want to add how the concept of promotions really shine with this concept, because you can not just add manpower in the form of units to a location (it becomes crowded), but promotoins do the trick to add some kind of 'stacking'.

 

[TM Moot]

While it does add a tactical dimension to the game, it's one that's completely misaligned with the geographic scale, hence the problem of archers firing on targets 500 miles away. Also, I find the log jams of units much more frustrating than SODs ever were.

imho SOD's were abit boring, but the way 1upt is implemented in civ5 is poor. And, if its true that all production/yields were spiked to artificially reduce the number of units, then this has ruined the whole game for me.

 

[Ranos]

While it does add a tactical dimension to the game, it's one that's completely misaligned with the geographic scale, hence the problem of archers firing on targets 500 miles away. Also, I find the log jams of units much more frustrating than SODs ever were.

There were far better ways to deal with the SOD problem and even ways that would have increased the tactical depth of the game. All of those have been discussed to death, however. In fact, you'd best prepare for some flamage in response to creating the 457th separate thread on this issue.

So if they are firing at units 500 miles away, you are saying each tile represents 250 miles. How is an archer firing at a unit 500 miles away any more ridiculous than a city that spans 250 miles or more? What about the fact that the distance between cities is at least 1000 miles? How about the fact that units are 50 miles tall? What about ground units not being able to go on mountains?

This is a computer game based on real history, not a simulation of real life.

On topic, I think 1UPT is a good improvement but it still needs improvement. The AI can't handle it well and the fact that units can get jammed up easily for multiple different reasons is a nucance. I'd still rather have to deal with those issues and have tactical combat than have SODs slamming up against eachother, including ranged units that melee attack.

 

[anandus]

The dimension-/archer-argument also goes the other way (well, depending on how many miles one thinks a square is). I always found it unrealistic that one could fit a gazillion troops in one square with a stack of doom.

 

[member66170]

The scale argument can equally be applied to time. How does it take 40 years for archers to fire a volley or arrows?

I think this is silly and the turn time should be reduced to represent at the most one hour. Also, the tiles should be 1 hectare big (100x100m) so that things are a proper size. Who doesn't want to play a 50 million turn game of Civ with 40 billion tiles?

 

[Sporaticus]

I've got my flame suit on, I'm pretty new to these forums and just wanted to throw out my opinion and possibly get some input

No need for the flame suit here, members seem infinitely more civilized than certain other gaming forums. I have grown to like the One Unit per Tile as far as combat goes. I think the devs need to rethink the mechanics that allow a unit to block another unit's movement, though. Personally, I would like to see units within one tile of obstructing units before the blocking mechanism kicks in.

 

[TM Moot]

I always found it unrealistic that one could fit a gazillion troops in one square with a stack of doom.

to me, its worse this way around...limiting a few hundred troops (one unit) in a vast area just seems wrong

You'd be surprised how many soldiers you can fit into a small battlefield (Waterloo - 70,000+ on each side), Verdun (500,000+ on each side), Stalingrad (700,000 v 1,000,000+)

scale and turn time has always been an anomoly in all civ games, thats why Gameplay > Realism

 

[blightmoon]

1upt is MUCH better than SoD. I haven't played Civ 4, but just the thought of it is appalling. The game would be transformed into just an economic management game with good graphics, if SoD was in civ 5.

I find that the problem with 1upt right now can be fixed by making units have more staying power. +20% hp maybe?...
and/or
adding reinforcement option, like Advanced Wars... maybe with limited rate like 3hp from the reinforcing unit?

 

[ChandlerB]

I really think they messed up not with 1upt but with the disappearance of ranged melee/mounted units. I am almost tempted to turn on promotion saving just to quit wasting the promotions on my first scout-turned-archer after I discover rifling. I have not really even begun to dig through the mods but it seems to me an easy fix is that the melee/mounted range units have a ranged attack of one hex(and gunpowder+ units become ranged as well). That way when a ranged unit is adjacent, it can make a weaker ranged attack (or the current ranged melee/mounted units would be reversed with a very weak melee and strong ranged attack) or close with the enemy and melee. Is there a mod that already does this? I am intrigued enough by the idea to work on one but it is probably to big a project for my first mod.

 

[Becomedeath]

1upt actually makes it a strategy game again.

There is no tactical thinking involved in stacking units, you just pile them on until you can't resist not being at war. Once collateral damage was introduced, stack warfare basically shot itself in the foot and made the only tactics required were making sure your stack didn't end it's turn in range of the enemy.

In the late game of Civ 4, once you had bomb shelters, inteceptors and the SDI, SOD warfare made the game so slow and tedious that you ended up going for a space victory just to make the madness stop.

On another note, I do wish people would give up on the "unrealistic" voyage. Civ isn't, has never been and will never be a simulator.

 

[blightmoon]

I really think they messed up not with 1upt but with the disappearance of ranged melee/mounted units. I am almost tempted to turn on promotion saving just to quit wasting the promotions on my first scout-turned-archer after I discover rifling. I have not really even begun to dig through the mods but it seems to me an easy fix is that the melee/mounted range units have a ranged attack of one hex(and gunpowder+ units become ranged as well). That way when a ranged unit is adjacent, it can make a weaker ranged attack (or the current ranged melee/mounted units would be reversed with a very weak melee and strong ranged attack) or close with the enemy and melee. Is there a mod that already does this? I am intrigued enough by the idea to work on one but it is probably to big a project for my first mod.

Not quite sure if the problem you are contemplating is about losing the ranged promotions when upgraded to later melee rifles, or not. If it is, VEM, aka TBC, fixes this issue. It transforms the Drill/Shock of melee/ranged to its equivalent in ranged/melee. Other promotions though I think won't remain, ie. indirect fire.

 

[bitula]

In my opinion this is one of the best additions to the franchise, SOD's were incredibly annoying in previous titles. And I find that wars are much more fun, very strategical, and you have to have your unit's in a good location to do well.


I'm pretty sure there is alot of people who dislike this, but I'm a pretty big fan

Ive never understood why does one call 1UPT an addition or a feature. Its not an addition, it is just a limitation, and it is not a feature, but a simplification. So there was nothing added here... 1UPT is just a simplified version of SOD, where the stack limit is 1, you can play 1UPT in Civ4 as well, just edit an XML file or a script and set the limit to 1. You cant play SOD though in Civ5 because AI wouldnt understand it. So again, how on earth can this be a feature, and to that one of the best???? And in general, how removing something can be an addition or a feature....? Sorry for the big redundant post, but Im really surprised, that many people see it as a feature...

 

[Ex.plode]

I was worried, I came from a Call of Duty forum, and an MMORPG forum so I am used to some sort of flaming and such

It's nice to know people are chill here

 

[Atwork]

Just went back and played some CIV4 with my girlfriend's brother. I hadn't played it in over a year.

Gotta say I was very surprised! I was really hard on CIV5 when it first came out (of course it miserably under-developed at the time) but after a few hours of CIV4, I find myself significantly more partial to CIV5 . Especially 1UPT!

Grouping and ungrouping SOD, choosing which unit to attack who with, and having 75 units attack a city one at a time against 50 other units......jesus it was time consuming and a lot more tedious than I thought it was! Not fun.

A year later, all doubt in my mind has been removed -- I prefer CIV5 1UPT for the tactics, the use of terrain, and the challenges presented by land features in relation to moving large numbers of armies.

 

[Ex.plode]

I prefer CIV5 1UPT for the tactics, the use of terrain, and the challenges presented by land features in relation to moving large numbers of armies.

Exactly