2.0 grams - The Whip and Saddle (C3C)

gozpel said:
I phrased this like a dimwit: "Arties should be as defensive units, max one per city?"

I meant number of units, so we can't build a stack of 200 :) Of course we would need them as offensive units! But then, they would proabaly slow us down anyways.
ok, i get it now. that sounds fine. however, by the way barbslinger is describing our empire, 200 arty's may be a little short of the limit :lol:

@scout -> it's only an honor if you do well. otherwise, it's a scourge :D
 
Turn 1 (4000) - Worker NW, no compelling reason to move, found Beijing
I need to get somebody to teach me how to fog-gaze, because there actually IS a FP wheat SE of the city...
Set queue to pottery
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IBT :sleep:
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Turn 2 (3950) worker irrigates
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IBT :sleep:
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Turn 3 (3900) - nada
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IBT :sleep:
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Turn 4 (3850) - nada
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IBT :sleep:
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Turn 5 (3800) worker roads
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IBT :sleep:
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Turn 6 (3750) our city has grown, lux to 10%, mm citizen to FPW to get growth
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IBT :sleep:
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Turn 7 (3700) worker to FPW
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IBT :sleep:
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Turn 8 (3650) worker irrigates
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IBT - Beijing trains a warrior
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Turn 9 (3600) Warrior S, treasury to 1.6.3
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IBT :sleep:
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Turn 10 (3550) Warrior S, pops hut, gets 3 barbs (!)
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IBT - our warrior fends off one barb, border expansion
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Turn 11 (3500) worker roads, scout crosses fingers, warrior NW
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IBT Barb warriors move west (?)
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Turn 12 (3450) the unhappiness is tough...put all citizens on high-food tiles, hire a scientist. (Beijing is now size 4) Warrior west to scout.
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IBT A mayan warrior shows up NW of our border.
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Turn 13 (3400)
Maya won't trade pottery for anything, and we're 5 turns out. He's down WC, up alpha and pottery.
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IBT barb warriors shuffle to high ground
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Turn 14 (3350)
Warrior N, sees an Iroquois Warrior.
Hiawatha up BW, Alph, Pottery, CB. Will trade Pottery for 20g+1gpt. We're 3 turns out.
Trade Maya Pottery for WC. (Hiawatha already has it..)
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IBT - a purple border shows up outside beijing, and the Inca show up.

I'm going to save it here...because I think I'm a little out of my league... I probably should have told you guys that high-food, low shield starts are a weakness....

GRAM20_at_turn15.jpg


After action review: I played this under the model "Population is power" and wound up hiring a specialist much sooner than I ever have. We do have pottery, but the price we paid was highway robbery. We're low on shields, but our worker is mining. Beijing is growing like a weed, and we've only got 2 warriors. I'm really hoping I haven't screwed this up right out of the gate...

For the next better player: > > The Save < <
 
Sorry for the double post - but we met the inca on that last turn. (It's a mid-turn save). That bring us to 3 known civs: Iroquois, Maya, Inca.
 
Well it looks like an archer gambit is forth coming and a settler to the north for the dyes and military production. I would swap to a worker to get those hills mined. It may have worked out better only irrigating one FP and roading both to get to the hills sooner and the food would not have killed you. I saw a T-hawk Celtic game with the same situation. Use specialists as you have too keeping on the hills. Chinese are industrious so it won't be much longer before the hills are done and the capital will settle. Pop a worker and then a settler. Granary would be nice but you'll outgrow it at our current spt. Once the hills are are mined up it will be fine.
 
Yikes. That was my fear with this start too. Too much food to deal with so early. Better you than me, Scoutsout. Sounds like barbslinger has a handle on it though. Once we get those mines in place we'll be in better shape.

And, boy, its nice to know our little archipelago map has left us nice and cozy with a few neighbors.
 
allright scout, no problem. sorry, i usually do a tile analysis before these kick off so we can discuss our start but had to get ready for a design review tomorrow so I didn't have time. i'll play 15 or so to get this straightened out but like barbslinger said, we're not too far off thanks to our industrious trait.

the starting position doesn't look too bad. the desert is very narrow so there's probably a lot more good land to the north. i'm not ready to sell out on an archer gambit till we see more of the map :)
 
I also should have put something in there about the "goody" hut. when I popped 3 barbs out of it... it sort of forced me to keep the warrior close to home. They were sort of menacing our worker the whole time. I wanted to send him west...

...sorry I hosed up the start...
 
The archers I spoke of we're to get the 1st ring city for ourselves and possibly put a dent in the Inca. It is a ways off. We need a military town for escorting our multitude of settlers that will be forthcoming. I'm wondering if settling 2 norht on the desert would work. The capital has more than enough food for now and beyond. 2 north and the military city could take the FP on the corner and then poach the FP wheat after we irrigate the SE FP wheat. It would get it up to pop limit and be able to spew warriors/archers/spears with the forests to work along with 2 FP's
 
first, the 2470BC save

Preflight check (3300BC): Zoom into Beijing to see what’s going on. Right now, we are working 3 FP wheats (2 irrigated) and 1 hill for +7fpt and +2spt. Wow, I wonder if we’ll even need a granary here :lol: But seriously, looks like it will fall as follows:
CC: 2fpt, 1spt
2FPW: 10fpt, 0spt (total)
3 mined hills: 3fpt, 6spt (total)

This will give us +5fpt and +7spt at size 5. At size 6, working another hill, we get +4fpt and +9spt so we will have to micromanage off the hill at turn 4 of the cycle to a food source. At size 6, turn 4 of the cycle, move the citizen off the mined hill and onto a FP Wheat (Not Irrigated) to get +7fpt and +7spt. Shield total per turn will be 7, 16(assumes citizen jumps to mined hill), 25, 32. We could probably get a 2nd town close to Beijing to share the extra FP wheat while it’s not in use.

MM Beijing: off FP wheat, onto hill, off irrigated FP wheat and onto hill, fire the scientist and put him on another hill for +1fpt and +5spt. Switch build to worker (if a DG AI wants us, another warrior won’t help) due in 2T. Right now we are researching alphabet due in 27T. All three of our neighbors have it so it’s probably not worth researching. ATM, I shut down research to help fill the coffers a little and help with the lux tax. Increase lux tax up to 40% from 30% to let the extra citizen get that shield. Treasury is 23g making +4gpt

Iroquios seem to be right on top of us. Thought this was a large map? Rename warrior in Beijing to Ada and explorer to Jujan (that’s bubba and biff to you and me :) ); Jujan goes NW in search of good land, right next to Grand River;

IBT: Iroquios ask us to leave, sure thing.

T1: 3250BC Jujan N

IBT: get booted out of Iroquois territory; Beijing worker -> worker, MM to get in 3T

T2: 3200BC Lower Lux tax to 30% (+5gpt); Jujan N; worker helps out with mining

T3: 3150BC Worker mines, Jujan to mountain; MM Beijing off hill and onto FP to get growth again and can lower lux tax (grow in 3T, worker still in 2T); Lux tax down to 20% for +7gpt

Inca up Alpha and BW now; Iroquois up Alpha, BW, and CB; Maya up Alpha

T4: 3100BC Jujan N

IBT: worker -> warrior (MM grow in 2T, warrior in 4T)

T5: 3050BC Move new worker NE of Beijing cause the other 2 will be done in 1T; Jujan NE, finds Inca border

T6: 3000BC Meet the Aztecs. They are up BW but won’t trade; Jujan E (Inca have nice land); New worker mines and the other 2 road.

T7: 2950BC Jujan E; MM off hill and onto FP wheat to give quick growth boost.

Beijing warrior -> settler

T8: 2900BC Drop lux tax to 10% thanks to our warrior; Workers merge onto the same hill; MM off Irr FP wheat and onto river hill to shave 2T off settler build (settler and growth in 6T); Jujan SE and I now see where city #2 will go. Can’t buy any techs right now.

T9: 2850BC Jujan W, workers mine the hill (6T to 2T)

IBT: Aztecs are building the Pyramids

T10: 2800BC Jujan NW

IBT: damit, Inca warrior/settler pair coming south to take our cow and there’s nothing I can do about it

T11: 2750BC Workers finish 2nd mine, 2 begin roading and the 3rd moves N to hill

T12: 2710BC Jujan N to mountain (in Inca territory), blahh, lots of marshes. No wonder they are coming south. Worker mines.

T13: 2670BC Both workers move to hill, tempting a Mayan warrior; Jujan goes west

Iroquois now up the Wheel as well; Aztecs up the Wheel, Alpha, and BW; Iro and Inca up Wheel Alpha, BW, and CB; Maya up BW and Alpha; Can buy CB for 90g and 2gpt but no one has any gold to trade.

IBT: Beijing settler -> granery

T14: 2630BC MM lux tax to 0%; Jujan NW; Settler NW, N; workers mine; trading for CB will bankrupt us even though the Maya now know it too. Aztecs do not. However, probably not enough gold for a 2’fer atm since the Iro want most of our treasury for CB.

IBT: Inca settle Ollantaytambo in an inane location, missing the lux and the cow but effectively cutting us off from getting both. Guess we’ll settle for the lux.

T15: 2590BC Jujan goes west. Settler NW

T16: 2550BC Settler NW, 2 workers road, 1 worker 1 to dyes; MM Beijing for growth in 2T

T17: 2510BC Jujan N; Found Shanghai W of dyes -> warrior; worker begins to road dyes; gpt jumps to +11gpt.
Trades: Iroquois: 6gpt, 109g for the Wheel; Maya: CB for the Wheel (BW was available but for all our treasury (ie, no lux MM’ing possible)

T18: 2470BC Meet an American scout and they are up BW, Alpha, and Myst; workers finish road on hill and move to the 4th hill and they see a damn American settler to the south. These clowns are all over us, what the hell kind of arch map is this? MM Beijing to get granary in 6T, MM Shanghai to get warrior in 5T.

Got a little lost with the turn count and took 2 too many, I think.

We should consider switching the Beijing granary to a settler. It could finish another in 2T. The reason to consider it is because we are being pinched from all sides atm. There is hardly any room for expansion with Iro and Maya to our immediate W; Inca to the N, and Americans to the S. Also, there is a horse NW of Shanghai that we should probably go get. However, this may be a short term solution to a long term problem and we'd be better off sticking to the granery. Tough choice.

gram2-2470BC.JPG
 
ok, i figured out why we are meeting so many people. i used seedbeast to look at the save and we are a pangea! i'm real sorry and can generate another 5 saves tomorrow to try again. not sure what the hell happened other an my misclick when looking for the 1st save while using mapfinder.

let me know what the team wants to do. in reality, this start does stink but i have no problem battling thru it. it just annoys me that i stated arch and then sprung a pangea on you.

lets discuss before we go any further. :blush:
 
Let's see... in the first 15 turns, I met 3 barbs, and 3 civs... that probably should've been a hint that it wasn't a 'pelago map!

:rotfl: mao

Maybe we can set up a funnel of doom with some archer armies....
 
Im up for a battle but im sure the people after me will want a go at this ;)

It is looking very bleak though, we have 4 civs very close by and will maybe only get 3/4 cities. Also, the Iroquios have a very bad habit of attacking me for no reason.
 
ok knapp, finish the granery then get a settler. remember to let the granery finish before you grow to size 5. that should take you thru your turns. check for trades every turn and use the dye forest as a chop to get a barracks in Shanghai after the road and warrior (should be able to time it well). i think we could pack in at least 6, maybe more, but they won't get very big. to alleviate the situation, we're going to have to go for a massive chariot -> horse upgrade (30g each, iirc).

if the others want to restart on an arch, please let me know. i believe with our current mix of player levels that a pangea will be a little too much but i'm often proved wrong :)
 
Got it. Will play tonight whenever i get off work.
 
Start a new map? Hey now. I changed my undershorts and everything! There's no turning back now.

Seriously this is looking pretty scary (at Demigod no less!). But I'm game for it. I know my turn are probably going to be the most nerveracking turns I've ever played of civ, but at least I can be reassured that my damage is limited to 10 turns. Plus, its comforting to know we are surrounded by many nice American friends. Nice, nice friends. Please let us settle near you?

6 cities in our close lands? That's a lot of desert in use. We should look down south to see if there is anything beyond the hills besides Mayans and Americans.
 
ok, ok, good to see i got some people with strong constitutions here :) gozpel and i really wanted an arch for this but ok, we'll keep playing.

@spikeit -> i hope theres something to the south but with all these FP's, we can afford to pack'em in.
 
Admittedly though. It looks ominous. Is this max water? Is that why we are so cramped? I would suggest some archers after we get 4-5 town, if possible. Once the AI runs out of living space they will come knocking.
 
barbslinger said:
Admittedly though. It looks ominous. Is this max water? Is that why we are so cramped? I would suggest some archers after we get 4-5 town, if possible. Once the AI runs out of living space they will come knocking.
80% water so expect guests soon. settle south & w on the hills to form a defensive ring and strike N, imho.
 
Well, I'd like to battle to the bitter end. We can always start the original island map with 80% water if and when we go down in flames. It feels like an archer gambit to me. Let's see what 10 archers can do to get us a couple first ring cities. If we can bag 2 cities in the first ring we can probably get quick peace and a tech, especially if we still have 5-6 archers left after. It is a hope that we have iron on one of our hills too.
 
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