2000 BC (Noldodan's turns)

[Blkbird]

Now if I were going for a hammer coastal city, I'd recommend the spot just E of the gems to the SE. That gives us access to 2 farms, the Rice, & 2 happiness resources (Gold & Gems) that will make it a major coin city as well. It won't conflict with any of our capital's squares and has enough grassland to grow into a major city.

Exactly what I suggested (or at least I remember I did somewhere). The spot E of the gems is a coastal hill, thus have good defense, and with rice, gems, gold in reach - it will give us overwhelming commerce.

 

[Blkbird]

Lastly, we're going to have a real tough time connecting the copper city to our capital logistically. We'll get access to the resource, but it will be difficult to protect from marauders. I'll toss in this wildcard option in support of your copper city... there are 3 possible city sites along the coast where we could build a galley to send into the lake to shuttle units back and forth as needed. This doesn't replace the need for roads, but does give you some flexibility in case you're cut off and another candidate for your science/merchant city.

Building a road straight south from Karakorum & looping around the mountains would work as well. Horse riders will be able to cover that distance in 3 turns. Another idea is to send that particular Settler out with a strong contingent. A stack of three archers could protect the town from anything short of swordsmen.

What are your guys talking about?! The settling location I suggested for the Copper City - 2E 1S of the copper would most likely be a coastal city, and therefore connected to Beshbalik, which in turn would be connected via roads to our capital.

 

[Blkbird]

I don't take it personally, but you could help your arguments a great deal by using less judgementally charged words like "terrible" and so forth...

I'm sorry if "terrible" is percepted as judgemental, but with my limited English knowledge I don't know what else could be a semantic comparison of "very bad". If I'd have said "worst ever" that would certainly sound very premature.

As to theory, I think you are all hung up on the notion that every city needs to work 20ish tiles and/or expand to pop 28. That's fine and I'll try to respect that, but I think it's fair to point out that there are alternatives and there are metagame reasons behind those alternatives.

I admit I build cities with many spaces inbetween - sometimes too much, which I've learned to correct recently. But I don't have a fetish about cites never touching. If two cities share one or two workable tiles, then so be it - as long as there is a strategic necessarity. More than three tiles would definitely be too much then. And in your case, I don't even see any strategic necessarity at all. (You did try to present some, but they don't seem to be valid to me, as I've disputed in detail.)

Also, I'm wondering about health and happiness issues. Since I never build cities so dense I don't know if they would negatively influence each other's health and happiness in such cases. It wouldn't be illogical as city do get health and happiness penalty for being highly populated. Maybe someone could shed a light on this?

 

[Blkbird]

At this point, I think we should officially discharge Noldodan as the current DP and appoint the next player in line, Tboy.

 

[starbolt]

What are your guys talking about?! The settling location I suggested for the Copper City - 2E 1S of the copper would most likely be a coastal city, and therefore connected to Beshbalik, which in turn would be connected via roads to our capital.

We understood that. In context, the distance from the rest of our empire makes it difficult to defend. This is one of the advantages of clustering cities together. You can provide defenders from multiple sources and if close enough they can arrive in 1-2 turns. I dislike the idea of protecting Beshbalik and this proposed copper city without some additional cities to provide troop support.

 

[starbolt]

Also, I'm wondering about health and happiness issues. Since I never build cities so dense I don't know if they would negatively influence each other's health and happiness in such cases. It wouldn't be illogical as city do get health and happiness penalty for being highly populated. Maybe someone could shed a light on this?

Since this situation exists in my style of play, I'll comment that I've never seen any interaction between two cities regarding them being unhappy/unhealthy about being so close to so many people in another city.

In the early game, I feel the mission is to exploit as many tiles as possible and control as much territory as possible while thwarting rivals from expanding easily. I accomplish that with a combination of settlers and culture. I don't need to be able to work more than a dozen or so tiles to accomplish that and if you're not producing enough culture to expand, rivals will slip through the cracks and put logistical and cultural pressure on you.

Sometimes, rushing off to exploit the best city sites is sacrificing the greater goal.

 

[Mike Lemmer]

Well, my experience so far has been people tend to make too many cities. Even though the Mongols are Expansive, if we have 6-7 home cities and then conquer a few more, we'll plummet into the red. The SGs I've been in have Research hovering at the 40-60% range because they have to pay for all of their cities. I would like to avoid that.

 

[Mike Lemmer]

So, who's running the next term?

 

[wcil]

Most probably Tboy

 

[Tboy]

I'm ready to play now, just send me the save.

 

[Blkbird]

Suddenly this deafening silence - what's going on here?

 

[starbolt]

I'm ready to play now, just send me the save.

The link to 2050 (the most recent save of which I am aware) is
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3380969&postcount=20

 

[Tboy]

I have the save.
Friends, Mongols, Countrymen, lend me your ears. I come before you at a turningpoint in our civilization:

A newfound 'masonry' sweeps our country. Foreigners are coming exceedingly close to us. How should we react? What should we do? My ears are open, friends.

 

[Blkbird]

As some of us have distinctly different opinions about the next settling locations due to personal preferences, and we have already presented our arguments but failed to convinced the others, maybe a poll would be the most suitable solution now? I think most would agree this issue is of the highest priority at this time?

 

[Alphawolf]

As some of us have distinctly different opinions about the next settling locations due to personal preferences, and we have already presented our arguments but failed to convinced the others, maybe a poll would be the most suitable solution now? I think most would agree this issue is of the highest priority at this time?

A poll really isn't necessary, to paraphrase as DaveShack said, "The DP is in charge, everyone else is just yelling suggestions at him. We can say what ever we want, but Tboy makes the ultimate decision.

-the Wolf

 

[donsig]

A poll really isn't necessary, to paraphrase as DaveShack said, "The DP is in charge, everyone else is just yelling suggestions at him. We can say what ever we want, but Tboy makes the ultimate decision.

-the Wolf

Then again, since this is a democracy game, a poll may be in order now. Tboy can then factor in the poll results into his decision as he sees fit.

 

[Alphawolf]

Then again, since this is a democracy game, a poll may be in order now. Tboy can then factor in the poll results into his decision as he sees fit.

This was really started to see what offices we might need, but since that doesn't seem to be happening I guess you're right.

-the Wolf

 

[starbolt]

"The DP is in charge, everyone else is just yelling suggestions at him. We can say what ever we want, but Tboy makes the ultimate decision.

Exactly. A full demogame may involve governors and so forth, but at this point, we're just kibitzers.

 

[DaveShack]

However, I was expecting to see polls when there are hotly contested issues. The objective of this game is also to find out where we disagree to identify the key things that we must have polls for.

BTW the relatively hands off approach is part intentional and part too busy to get involved because WMAO to get all my work assignments done before Christmas vacation.

 

[Alphawolf]

DaveShack, I have come to the conclusion that you like the guy with the gavel a little to much ; also I think he's getting ready to throw the hammer. Also DaveShack you aren’t showing the team colors , see my avatar.

On topic: We need to prepare for War against the evil Egyptians who have our Holy City. Feel free to ignore my random thoughts this computer broke last week and I don't have Civ4 back on it yet, it will be tomorrow at the earliest before I can offer meaningful advice.

-the Wolf