2016 Winter Patch - Combat AI...?

[V. Soma]

Please, report here as if any changes to AI combat behavior after the 2016 winter patch...

like:

- Does AI attack and capture cities (especially walled cities)?
- Does AI use defending range unit in its cities to defend?
- Does AI use its damaged units to attack when it is reasonable?
- Does AI use air units?
- Does AI upgrade units?
...

 

[Jabulani]

You perfectly summarized all the big big big issues of Civ VI and of course even the latest patch doesn't fix them all, I wonder why.......

 

[oedali]

The question is does it fix ANY?

I am starting my first post-patch game shortly and will have an opinion soon but not holding my breath..

 

[Lewi11]

From the summary it doesn't appear to address any of those points :-(
Maybe with cheaper unit upgrades, the AI might be more inclined to upgrade units. That's the only possible improvement I can think of. I might jump back on and have a game to test it out.

 

[Kruos]

Is the AI able to capture a city with a wall now?

 

[V. Soma]

Is the AI able to capture a city with a wall now?

yes, that is important - I edit OP...

 

[Gort]

I guess the best way to get an answer is set up a game like this:

* Domination victory only
* Duel size map
* Pangaea
* Information era start
* Deity difficulty
* Online speed

Pick a warlike opponent like the Aztecs or Scythia. Delete your starting units except for one settler. Declare war on the opponent as soon as you meet them, see how many turns it takes for you to lose your city.

 

[Kruos]

I guess the best way to get an answer is set up a game like this:

* Domination victory only
* Duel size map
* Pangaea
* Information era start
* Deity difficulty
* Online speed

Pick a warlike opponent like the Aztecs or Scythia. Delete your starting units except for one settler. Declare war on the opponent as soon as you meet them, see how many turns it takes for you to lose your city.

Buy a wall and then declare war.

 

[Gort]

Buy a wall and then declare war.

You don't have to buy walls in an information era start, your cities have them by default.

 

[komodowaran]

do Generals still stack ? and does the AI now know that they do ?

 

[Gort]

How long it takes the AI to conquer an inert capital city

Turn 208: Start
Turn 210: Meet Aztecs, declare war
Turn 213: Geneva also declares war on me
Turn 229: Aztecs send my archaeologist back to my capital
Turn 231: Aztec ranger enters my territory, pillages a quarry
Turn 237: Aztec ranger captures a builder
Turn 243: A pair of Aztec helicopters show up
Turn 246: More Aztecs show up - they now have artillery, infantry, an infantry corps, two helicopters and two rangers near my capital
Turn 249: They attack my encampment with a machinegun, artillery and an infantry, denting it a little
Turn 251: They mill around for a bit, the capital is now under siege but has not yet actually been fired upon
Turn 253: They attack the encampment a bit more - they now have nine units around my capital
Turn 254: They actually attack the capital and encampment at the same time
Turn 255: Capital is conquered

So it looks like they can achieve it now, but it might require you to build no units and not use your city's ranged attacks to hit their units. Maybe I'll do another test where I use the city's ranged strikes, and maybe another where I put a ranged unit in the city as well.

 

[V. Soma]

BTW they released a Polish scenario with attacking AI - how does that achieve anything...?

 

[V. Soma]

So it looks like they can achieve it now, but it might require you to build no units and not use your city's ranged attacks to hit their units. Maybe I'll do another test where I use the city's ranged strikes, and maybe another where I put a ranged unit in the city as well.

A flicker of light of hope... I am waiting for your other tests!

 

[Cymsdale]

How long it takes the AI to conquer an inert capital city

Turn 208: Start
Turn 210: Meet Aztecs, declare war
Turn 213: Geneva also declares war on me
Turn 229: Aztecs send my archaeologist back to my capital
Turn 231: Aztec ranger enters my territory, pillages a quarry
Turn 237: Aztec ranger captures a builder
Turn 243: A pair of Aztec helicopters show up
Turn 246: More Aztecs show up - they now have artillery, infantry, an infantry corps, two helicopters and two rangers near my capital
Turn 249: They attack my encampment with a machinegun, artillery and an infantry, denting it a little
Turn 251: They mill around for a bit, the capital is now under siege but has not yet actually been fired upon
Turn 253: They attack the encampment a bit more - they now have nine units around my capital
Turn 254: They actually attack the capital and encampment at the same time
Turn 255: Capital is conquered

So it looks like they can achieve it now, but it might require you to build no units and not use your city's ranged attacks to hit their units. Maybe I'll do another test where I use the city's ranged strikes, and maybe another where I put a ranged unit in the city as well.

This is so sad. I knew the AI was bad at attacking cities, but I didn't realize it was quite this bad.

I wonder how much the presence of the encampment district is confusing the AI. If the city was by itself, would it be a bit more focused?

 

[Gort]

How long it takes the AI to conquer a capital city that shoots at them

Turn 208: Start
Turn 211: Meet Aztecs, declare war
Turn 219: Enemy city state machinegun shows up, gets shot by city center, retreats
Turn 240: Barbarian machinegun shows up, gets shot by city center and encampment, dies
Turn 252: First Aztec military unit shows up, half-dead infantryman
Turn 279: Carthage (neighbouring enemy city state) invades with two machineguns, a helicopter, an infantryman and a rocket artillery
Turn 284: City and encampment shoot down one of Carthage's helicopters, their rocket artillery has retreated having not yet fired a shot
Turn 285: City kills a Carthaginian machinegun
Turn 291: City kills the Carthaginian rocket artillery
Turn 302: City kills a Carthaginian infantryman - there are now no enemies near the capital
Turn 311: Aztecs invade in force - a modern tank army and two mechanised infantry. The tank army is bombarded for 6 damage by the encampment
Turn 312: The modern tank army attacks the encampment and dents it a bit
Turn 314: The two mechanised infantry form a corps
Turn 315: The modern tank army leaves
Turn 319: An Aztec and a Carthaginian helicopter show up
Turn 320: A Carthaginian rocket artillery shows up
Turn 321: The Carthaginian rocket artillery attacks the city for decent damage
Turn 323: The city and encampment destroy the Carthaginian helicopter
Turn 329: The city and encampment destroy the Carthaginian rocket artillery
Turn 347: I make a builder to repair some damage to the tiles around the city, a half-dead Aztec helicopter rushes adjacent from out of the fog of war. It is shot by the capital and encampment, I move the builder back into the capital.
Turn 348: I move the builder out again and the same even-more-dead Aztec helicopter rushes adjacent from out of the fog of war. It is shot and destroyed by the capital and encampment.
Turn 359: I notice a bug whereby the capital and the encampment's walls are not healing, even though there are no enemies nearby, and haven't been for about ten turns now.
Turn 360: Amsterdam invades with two mechanised infantry and a machinegun
Turn 366: Lisbon invades from a different side with two mechanised infantry and a machinegun
Turn 371: Carthage invades from a different side with one mechanised infantry. Lisbon brings in two rocket artillery.
Turn 374: City destroys one of Lisbon's mechanised infantry
Turn 375: Both of Lisbon's rocket artillery hit the encampment. Amsterdam and Carthage withdraw their forces.
Turn 376: Both of Lisbon's rocket artillery hit the encampment. It's now almost wall-less.
Turn 377: Both of Lisbon's rocket artillery hit the encampment. It's now in the red and cannot fire for the rest of the game since its walls are not regenerating.
Turn 379: One of Lisbon's rocket artillery hits the city.
Turn 380: One of Lisbon's rocket artillery hits the city.
Turn 382: One of Lisbon's rocket artillery hits the city. It is now without walls and cannot fire for the rest of the game since its walls are not regenerating.
Turn 383: One of Lisbon's rocket artillery hits the city, and one of their mechanised infantry assaults. It's now without fortifications and on half health.
Turn 384: Both of Lisbon's rocket artillery hit the city. It's now on a sliver of health.
Turn 385: Both of Lisbon's rocket artillery hit the city. It's now on a sliver of health.
Turn 386: Both of Lisbon's rocket artillery hit the city. It's now on a sliver of health. The adjacent mechanised infantry could probably take it but is on red health and healing 5 HP a turn.
Turn 387: Both of Lisbon's rocket artillery hit the city, and the adjacent mechanised infantry attacks, but fails to take the city somehow.
Turn 388: One rocket artillery hits the city.
Turn 389: One rocket artillery hits the city.
Turn 390: Amsterdam invades with three mechanised infantry.
Turn 391: One rocket artillery and a mechanised infantry attacks, but again they fail to take the city. It's been unable to fire for about ten turns and been in red health, but somehow they can't take it.
Turn 392: Two rocket artillery and a machinegun hit the city.
Turn 393: The city is now under siege with a single hitpoint. Is there something weird where city states can't conquer capitals?
Turn 394: Two rocket artillery, a machinegun and a mechanised infantry hit the city.
Turn 395: Two rocket artillery, a machinegun and a mechanised infantry hit the city.
Turn 396: The city gets attacked six times and my fingers are getting tired of typing.
Turn 397: Four attacks.
Turn 398: Five attacks.
Turn 399: Six attacks.
Turn 400: Five attacks.
Turn 401: Seven attacks.

For the next 22 turns my city has been completely surrounded by city state units and attacked about seven times. Aztecs are basically nowhere to be seen, so I decide to take over the city states with my envoys to break this deadlock. We struggle over the city states for a bit, but in the end I get one and they get two.

Turn 429: Somehow my capital is still sieged even though there are no enemy units near it.
Turn 432: My capital un-sieges when some enemies approach it. Huh.
Turn 433: Carthage hits my capital with a mechanised infantry.
Turn 436: After a few turns of attacks, my capital has no health again.
Turn 443: Carthage is still attacking the capital, but now an Aztec modern tank army has shown up.
Turn 444: Carthage is still attacking, now there are two Aztec modern tank armies.
Turn 448: The Aztec tank armies withdraw.
Turn 467: An Aztec tank army comes back.
Turn 468: The tank army is now adjacent to my capital, which has 1 HP.
Turn 470: The tank army is sitting near the capital, which is now healing. The Carthaginians have withdrawn.
Turn 475: The Aztecs now have four tank armies and a mechanised army within five tiles of my capital.
Turn 478: The Aztecs are now hitting Lisbon, ignoring my capital entirely. It has healed to full health but still has no walls.
Turn 483: The Aztecs conquer Lisbon.
Turn 486: The Aztecs now have six tank armies and one mechanised army in my territory.
Turn 488: The Aztecs leave.
Turn 498: The Aztecs now have eight tank armies in my territory.
Turn 501: Aztecs one-shot kill my encampment.
Turn 508: The Aztecs leave again.
Turn 513: OK, it's been more than 300 turns and nothing's happening. I'm giving up.

 

[Siptah]

That's sad to hear, Gort.
I think you have to repair defenses and they don't heal without that, no?
What I don't get - are CS unable to capture a city by default? Or why didn't they take it if the surrounded it and attacked it multiple times?

 

[Athmos]

Siptah : CS are unable to take cities I think, just as they can't take goody hut.

I think with Civ V Firaxis discovered that players don't care if the AI is just unable to play the game. 1UPT as always been a problem for AIs, but this is reaching grotesque level.
And I'm starting to fear that the unstacked city concept is doing for city building what 1UPT did to war : provide an interesting puzzle for the player but make the AI utterly unable to compete.

 

[juanpavo]

What a great test, and what a sad result. I didn't realize it would be this bad.

 

[Gort]

Another test, that last one was weird. I'll shoot at the enemy with my capital and encampment.

Turn 208: Start
Turn 211: Meet Aztecs, declare war.
Turn 221: Aztecs ask for peace, offering some gold and luxuries. Refuse.
Turn 225: Aztecs ask for peace again, slightly more stuff. Refuse.
Turn 235: Aztecs invade with two infantry armies and a machinegun corps.
Turn 244: My capital and encampment kill one infantry army.
Turn 246: The Aztecs now have a machinegun, a machinegun corps, an artillery, a ranger, a helicopter and an infantryman in my territory. They're yet to actually attack anything - they have pillaged twice though.
Turn 249: We kill the ranger.
Turn 251: We kill a machinegun.
Turn 257: We kill an artillery.
Turn 259: We kill an infantry army.
Turn 262: We kill a machinegun. There's a barbarian uprising of two helicopters in our territory from lack of amenities.
Turn 265: Aztecs hit our encampment with a helicopter and damage it a bit.
Turn 266: Aztecs hit our encampment with a helicopter and damage it a bit. Barbarians are now dead.
Turn 268: Aztecs hit our encampment with a helicopter and damage it a bit. We kill another helicopter.
Turn 271: Aztecs move a settler into our territory.

For the next 50 turns the Aztecs have a helicopter sat healing on my entertainment complex. Every turn I shoot it for 16 damage. It heals for 5. Somehow it never dies, despite only having a total of 3 promotions.

Turn 326: Aztecs move a mechanised army next to the city.
Turn 327: It is joined by a great general.
Turn 339: The helicopter is replaced by a modern tank army. It is then shot down. The great general and mechanised army leave.
Turn 341: The Aztecs conquer Kandy, a city state.
Turn 352: The Aztecs now have four tank armies sitting around in my territory pillaging things.
Turn 355: The Aztecs assault the city with two tank armies.
Turn 356: The Aztecs assault the city with two tank armies.
Turn 357: One tank army retreats.
Turn 358: The Aztecs assault the city with one tank army.
Turn 359: The Aztecs take the city.

 

[topresch]

Great although harrowing read! It must be the 1UPT the AI can't handle at all, no? And when CS fill up space, the AI gets confused and moves about anxiously to try to invade? Perhaps the CS should be able to conquer cities for their suzerain?