2016 Winter Patch - Combat AI...?

I suspect the A.I. is well aware of the warmongering penalties associated with such actions.
 
great test and unfortunately a great testimonial why always war games in civ 6 are not so much fun after all. where is the challenge?
 
I suspect the A.I. is well aware of the warmongering penalties associated with such actions.
But it would be ONE conquest away from Domination Vic? I mean, they should at least try to win, being a more or less Militaristic Civ to boot.
 
Great although harrowing read! It must be the 1UPT the AI can't handle at all, no? And when CS fill up space, the AI gets confused and moves about anxiously to try to invade? Perhaps the CS should be able to conquer cities for their suzerain?

It feels like the AI just doesn't attack cities as often as it should. Maybe it doesn't think it can win?

I might try doing some modding, maybe a mod to add the battering ram effect to all units, see if that changes how it acts.
 
Anyone figured what that leaf tech change evaulation for AI does?

Does AI still try to rush chemistry and rocketry, completly negleting military techs from lower side of the tech tree?
 
Please, report here as if any changes to AI combat behavior after the 2016 winter patch...

like:

- Does AI attack and capture cities (especially walled cities)?
- Does AI use defending range unit in its cities to defend?
- Does AI use its damaged units to attack when it is reasonable?
- Does AI use air units?
- Does AI upgrade units?
...

Just started - and quickly ended - an Emperor game as Poland. Brazil immediately declared war, moving 3+ warriors to attack Krakow (my slinger was off hunting barbarians, an evident error) ... and proceeded to take the city, including an attack with an almost-dead warrior to deal the fatal blow.

Obviously that didn't get me far enough to see how air units perform - I was out by turn 20 or so - but I noticed when briefly playing the previous patch that the AI upgraded its units at that point.
 
Air units are not so much an AI problem as it is a not-worth-it problem. In the current state, not building air makes the AI smarter.
 
How long it takes the AI to conquer a capital city that shoots at them

Turn 208: Start
Turn 211: Meet Aztecs, declare war
Turn 219: Enemy city state machinegun shows up, gets shot by city center, retreats
Turn 240: Barbarian machinegun shows up, gets shot by city center and encampment, dies
Turn 252: First Aztec military unit shows up, half-dead infantryman
Turn 279: Carthage (neighbouring enemy city state) invades with two machineguns, a helicopter, an infantryman and a rocket artillery
Turn 284: City and encampment shoot down one of Carthage's helicopters, their rocket artillery has retreated having not yet fired a shot
Turn 285: City kills a Carthaginian machinegun
Turn 291: City kills the Carthaginian rocket artillery
Turn 302: City kills a Carthaginian infantryman - there are now no enemies near the capital
Turn 311: Aztecs invade in force - a modern tank army and two mechanised infantry. The tank army is bombarded for 6 damage by the encampment
Turn 312: The modern tank army attacks the encampment and dents it a bit
Turn 314: The two mechanised infantry form a corps
Turn 315: The modern tank army leaves
Turn 319: An Aztec and a Carthaginian helicopter show up
Turn 320: A Carthaginian rocket artillery shows up
Turn 321: The Carthaginian rocket artillery attacks the city for decent damage
Turn 323: The city and encampment destroy the Carthaginian helicopter
Turn 329: The city and encampment destroy the Carthaginian rocket artillery
Turn 347: I make a builder to repair some damage to the tiles around the city, a half-dead Aztec helicopter rushes adjacent from out of the fog of war. It is shot by the capital and encampment, I move the builder back into the capital.
Turn 348: I move the builder out again and the same even-more-dead Aztec helicopter rushes adjacent from out of the fog of war. It is shot and destroyed by the capital and encampment.
Turn 359: I notice a bug whereby the capital and the encampment's walls are not healing, even though there are no enemies nearby, and haven't been for about ten turns now.
Turn 360: Amsterdam invades with two mechanised infantry and a machinegun
Turn 366: Lisbon invades from a different side with two mechanised infantry and a machinegun
Turn 371: Carthage invades from a different side with one mechanised infantry. Lisbon brings in two rocket artillery.
Turn 374: City destroys one of Lisbon's mechanised infantry
Turn 375: Both of Lisbon's rocket artillery hit the encampment. Amsterdam and Carthage withdraw their forces.
Turn 376: Both of Lisbon's rocket artillery hit the encampment. It's now almost wall-less.
Turn 377: Both of Lisbon's rocket artillery hit the encampment. It's now in the red and cannot fire for the rest of the game since its walls are not regenerating.
Turn 379: One of Lisbon's rocket artillery hits the city.
Turn 380: One of Lisbon's rocket artillery hits the city.
Turn 382: One of Lisbon's rocket artillery hits the city. It is now without walls and cannot fire for the rest of the game since its walls are not regenerating.
Turn 383: One of Lisbon's rocket artillery hits the city, and one of their mechanised infantry assaults. It's now without fortifications and on half health.
Turn 384: Both of Lisbon's rocket artillery hit the city. It's now on a sliver of health.
Turn 385: Both of Lisbon's rocket artillery hit the city. It's now on a sliver of health.
Turn 386: Both of Lisbon's rocket artillery hit the city. It's now on a sliver of health. The adjacent mechanised infantry could probably take it but is on red health and healing 5 HP a turn.
Turn 387: Both of Lisbon's rocket artillery hit the city, and the adjacent mechanised infantry attacks, but fails to take the city somehow.
Turn 388: One rocket artillery hits the city.
Turn 389: One rocket artillery hits the city.
Turn 390: Amsterdam invades with three mechanised infantry.
Turn 391: One rocket artillery and a mechanised infantry attacks, but again they fail to take the city. It's been unable to fire for about ten turns and been in red health, but somehow they can't take it.
Turn 392: Two rocket artillery and a machinegun hit the city.
Turn 393: The city is now under siege with a single hitpoint. Is there something weird where city states can't conquer capitals?
Turn 394: Two rocket artillery, a machinegun and a mechanised infantry hit the city.
Turn 395: Two rocket artillery, a machinegun and a mechanised infantry hit the city.
Turn 396: The city gets attacked six times and my fingers are getting tired of typing.
Turn 397: Four attacks.
Turn 398: Five attacks.
Turn 399: Six attacks.
Turn 400: Five attacks.
Turn 401: Seven attacks.

For the next 22 turns my city has been completely surrounded by city state units and attacked about seven times. Aztecs are basically nowhere to be seen, so I decide to take over the city states with my envoys to break this deadlock. We struggle over the city states for a bit, but in the end I get one and they get two.

Turn 429: Somehow my capital is still sieged even though there are no enemy units near it.
Turn 432: My capital un-sieges when some enemies approach it. Huh.
Turn 433: Carthage hits my capital with a mechanised infantry.
Turn 436: After a few turns of attacks, my capital has no health again.
Turn 443: Carthage is still attacking the capital, but now an Aztec modern tank army has shown up.
Turn 444: Carthage is still attacking, now there are two Aztec modern tank armies.
Turn 448: The Aztec tank armies withdraw.
Turn 467: An Aztec tank army comes back.
Turn 468: The tank army is now adjacent to my capital, which has 1 HP.
Turn 470: The tank army is sitting near the capital, which is now healing. The Carthaginians have withdrawn.
Turn 475: The Aztecs now have four tank armies and a mechanised army within five tiles of my capital.
Turn 478: The Aztecs are now hitting Lisbon, ignoring my capital entirely. It has healed to full health but still has no walls.
Turn 483: The Aztecs conquer Lisbon.
Turn 486: The Aztecs now have six tank armies and one mechanised army in my territory.
Turn 488: The Aztecs leave.
Turn 498: The Aztecs now have eight tank armies in my territory.
Turn 501: Aztecs one-shot kill my encampment.
Turn 508: The Aztecs leave again.
Turn 513: OK, it's been more than 300 turns and nothing's happening. I'm giving up.

Good lord.

The game is not really playable in its current state. It's got plenty of potential and will hopefully go down as a big improvement over Civ V one day. But it's just not ready for prime time. If the AI poses zero military threat after turn 50--quite literally zero--where's the fun?
 
Where's the fun? Interviewing the 'leaf tech change' of my afternoon tea, I come to the conclusion, that this 2nd patch is a well timed Xmas present. Furthermore, now after the longest night, civ6 is going to have a bright future of more substantial patches next year ... Merry Christmas!
 
This seems extremely bad. Do the devs actually read through these forums? An AI that doesn't know how to war properly makes the single player games basically broken on higher difficulties.

You can't not go to war, because the AI has an advantage in tech and cities, yet you can't go to war because the AI can't attack/defend themselves properly. So what are you expected to do?
 
Please, report here as if any changes to AI combat behavior after the 2016 winter patch...

like:

- Does AI attack and capture cities (especially walled cities)?
- Does AI use defending range unit in its cities to defend?
- Does AI use its damaged units to attack when it is reasonable?
- Does AI use air units?
- Does AI upgrade units?
...
Didn't notice a difference to any combat AI on a game I played last night.

There is no doubt the AI is inept in battle decisions and needs major fixes, but if they fix the the ability to use ranged units to defend their cities I doubt an AI would ever able to take another AI's city that has walls and a ranged unit.

I think cities are to difficult to capture. Against a human player how long and how many medieval units would it take to capture a city with medieval walls, an encampment and 2 crossbows. Obviously terrain and placement plays a huge factor and would make some cities near impossible to capture, while making it feasible to capture others but only by using a well coordinated and time consuming battle plan that the AI is incapable of.

One simple but large change I would suggest is that melee and cavalry units can attack cities and encampments like ranged units in that they incur a huge negative modifier to their combat strength vs fortifications but do not suffer any combat damage. I think this should apply to city/encampment healths as well if there is not a unit garrisoned in it. I don't know if it is possible to mod this with the current tools but I would be interested to see how it effects AI attack decisions.

Another change that might help with some AI aggressiveness would be to give some positive effects to city capture and battle victories other than the addition of the city to your civ. I'm fine with all of the other leaders getting mad about warmongering but my people should be happy about it when successful.
Couple of ideas for city capture rewards from the many possibilities:
temporary amenities buffs, to counteract war weariness.
War trophies that are earned for city capture and placed in a Palace war trophy room with slots like that for great works. These trophies could give permanent effects like adding amenities, gold, culture, faith and production based what type of city was captured.
Just looking for a carrot to put at the end of the stick to get and keep some conflict going, seems like the there are to many reasons for the AI not to want to attack or take a city.
 
One simple but large change I would suggest is that melee and cavalry units can attack cities and encampments like ranged units in that they incur a huge negative modifier to their combat strength vs fortifications but do not suffer any combat damage. I think this should apply to city/encampment healths as well if there is not a unit garrisoned in it. I don't know if it is possible to mod this with the current tools but I would be interested to see how it effects AI attack decisions.

An AI-friendly change I'd like to see is for besieged cities to lose 10% of their health every turn (so a city besieged for 10 turns will fall, even if it's never attacked). The AI can besiege cities, and this change would circumvent the AI reluctance to actually attack. Plus, I think it makes sense historically (the city is starving, after all) and would make navies more significant (since you'll need navies to besiege coastal cities). It would also tip the balance a little bit away from ranged units and toward melee units which can exert zone of control.
 
I think cities are to difficult to capture. Against a human player how long and how many medieval units would it take to capture a city with medieval walls, an encampment and 2 crossbows. Obviously terrain and placement plays a huge factor and would make some cities near impossible to capture, while making it feasible to capture others but only by using a well coordinated and time consuming battle plan that the AI is incapable of.

Does the AI bring siege towers? 2 Samurai and a Siege Tower can bring down a medieval city with walls in one turn if it's on flat land. Against 2 Crossbowman and an encampment I would think 4 Knights and a Siege Tower could take out the encampment and then the city in about 3 turns. Maybe the AI doesn't build any support units or can't coordinate them well enough?
 
I tried a dual map play with Monty and Gorgo and AutoPlay mod on, so Ai vs Ai

the game got stuck at turn 60 (not getting to next turn, bug or mod failure, dunno)

in turn 30-35 Monty attacked Sparta with his UUs and almost got it done
when Sparta got walls and then Monty's army backed to the borders of Sparta and did nothing...
then an Aztec catapult came and swordsmen but still no attack...
then Monty moved to maybe attack Sparta but came turn 60...
 
Siptah : CS are unable to take cities I think, just as they can't take goody hut.

I think with Civ V Firaxis discovered that players don't care if the AI is just unable to play the game. 1UPT as always been a problem for AIs, but this is reaching grotesque level.
And I'm starting to fear that the unstacked city concept is doing for city building what 1UPT did to war : provide an interesting puzzle for the player but make the AI utterly unable to compete.
Amsterdam killed a French city in my game, but it was of course not the capitol. I think you've hit on it, they can't gain a second city, so they can't take a capitol, since the new Domination rules require them to stay in the game.
 
How long it takes the AI to conquer an inert capital city [..]
Not very promising.. maybe try another nation to see whether leader personalities effect this, and try pitting two AIs against each to make sure that it is not some sort of deliberate handicap. And finally maybe post your results on the offical forum too.
 
@Gort: Epic, if completely disheartening, read about the AI's (in)capability in besieging cities. Somehow, it seems as if Civ6 AI is even less capable than Civ5 AI?

I think cities are to difficult to capture.
I disagree. Almost on the other hand, I think cities are too easy to conquer if you know what you're doing. The new siege mechanism and the fact that you can knock down walls and hence remove city attack effectively counters many of the problems inherent in Civ5 city combat. City attacks might be tuned down a bit in damage, but on the bottom line, I think the problem is not cities being too hard to take, but the AI being completely clueless about what it's doing.
 
In my game Pedro took an English city, and Amsterdam wiped out a French city, but this is all pre-walls, and when I fought Pedro, his Slinger sat in his city never attacking my assault force. He could have easily forced one of my slingers off, if not both (I sent 2 slingers and a spearman).
The civs do not seem to have attacked with weakened units near as much as they should, at least when it's at all close to even. They will hit my slingers rather than retreat, but they wouldn't hit my archers in similar situations, which is presumably because slingers are terrible at defense, but archers have 15. They had a heavy chariot, so they should've attacked, but instead just hung around and let me kill them.
 
Has anyone else been seeing city fortifications never repairing themselves? In my games the green bar (city health) recharges, but once the blue bar (city fortifications) has been damaged it never returns.
 
Has anyone else been seeing city fortifications never repairing themselves? In my games the green bar (city health) recharges, but once the blue bar (city fortifications) has been damaged it never returns.

They don't repair themselves; you have to run a Repair Walls Project, which you can only do if the walls haven't been attacked in the last 3 turns.
 
Top Bottom