3.0 discussion

[GarretSidzaka]

yeah, but we need to move these entries over to flavour text thread

i have updated the format too, in that thread.

 

[Bahmo]

A closer look at the screenshot of Bush's ugly mug leads me to two questions. You earlier said that in this version, there would be two leaders-per-civ, and also, that each civ would have its own trait that applied to every leader, in addition to the two traits each leader had. Yet neither or those are present in that picture. Have you abandoned your earlier idea?

 

[GarretSidzaka]

Well, here's the part about the multiple leaders. That will be near the last thing i do for this mod. How it works is Firaxis didn't code a way for a "scenario map" to have multiple leaders. So, when the bumps are smoothed over, I will copy the map, except change the leaders and rename the file. Second Rev_AlternateLeaders.wbs or something.

You would have to load a different map to have the other leaders

 

[Bahmo]

What about the bonus traits afforded to each Civilization.

 

[GarretSidzaka]

well, i plan on juggling those around for the alternate leaders, and i think i already have them picked.

 

[Bahmo]

To change gears again, how about those ideaology buildings? I think it would be cool if each looked different and had a different effect. My ideas:

Conservative Branch:
Effect-- -10 upkeep
Graphic-- Sistine Chapel

Neoliberal Branch:
Effect-- + 1 Trade Route
Graphic-- Stock Exchange

Nationalist Branch:
Effect-- -10 War Weariness
Graphic-- Citadel

Anarchist Squat:
Effect-- + 1 XP
Graphic-- Thieves Guild

Communist Squat:
Effect-- + 1 Food
Graphic-- Rathhouse

Autonomist Squat:
Effect-- Happiness and Health Points Added for certain resources
Graphic-- Chichen Itza

 

[Dead Flag]

Chichen Itza?

 

[Bahmo]

Chichen Itza?

I felt a meso-American pyramid was a good symbol for resistance against foregin oppression, as much of the Zapatista militia are Mayans.

 

[GarretSidzaka]

I like it I have been wanting to implement this kinda balance changes for a while.
The graphics i might have a bunch for already, but some of the graphical suggestions are perfect

@deadflag and bahmo

we should start to think about what kinda commerce bonuses the ideologies should provide. i think they can provide science, gold, and of course, culture (aka media in my mod)

 

[Dead Flag]

I felt a meso-American pyramid was a good symbol for resistance against foregin oppression, as much of the Zapatista militia are Mayans.

Ah that makes sense. I was just trying to imagine what sort of structure you were going for.

Garret, I know it's a bit cliche, but I suggest this:

Neoliberalism - Large money bonus, small culture bonus
Conservatism - Moderate money bonus, moderate culture bonus
Nationalism - Small money bonus, large culture bonus

Communism - Large science bonus, small culture bonus
Anarchism - Moderate science bonus, moderate culture bonus
Autonomism - Small science bonus, large culture bonus

Would it be possible to have more buildings that only worked with a certain ideology? Like, for example, mega casinos only working with neoliberalism or something? That way, the right wingers could start with lots of fancy and expensive production facilities, which could be replaced by Kalashnikov factories or whatever when the rebels take over.

 

[GarretSidzaka]

...
Would it be possible to have more buildings that only worked with a certain ideology? Like, for example, mega casinos only working with neoliberalism or something? That way, the right wingers could start with lots of fancy and expensive production facilities, which could be replaced by Kalashnikov factories or whatever when the rebels take over.

this has some merit. we can link any building to a particular ideology

 

[Dead Flag]

Can you link a building with multiple ideologies? So that, for another example, jails could work with all ideologies except anarchism?

 

[GarretSidzaka]

.... maybe. i think this could work.

i will get a list of all existing (or future buildings) and maybe we can make some sense of it all.

 

[jefmart1]

"Conservatism - Moderate money bonus, moderate culture bonus"

This should really be neoconservatism, there are few true conservatives left in American politics. Ron Paul being one of the few I can think of and even hes more libertarian really.

Bush and Cheney are true neocons, spending money everywhere and expanding government and its powers. McCain is no better.

 

[Dead Flag]

I see the ideologies like this;

Neoliberalism - Economically far-right, socially centre-right
Conservatism - Economically right-wing, socially right-wing
Nationalism - Economically centre-right, socially far-right

Communism - Economically far-left, socially centre-left
Autonomism - Economically left-wing, socially left-wing
Anarchism - Economically centre-left, socially far-left

(I mixed up Autonomism and Anarchism in my previous post, it should be;

Neoliberalism - Large money bonus, small culture bonus
Conservatism - Moderate money bonus, moderate culture bonus
Nationalism - Small money bonus, large culture bonus

Communism - Large science bonus, small culture bonus
Autonomism -Moderate science bonus, moderate culture bonus
Anarchism - Small science bonus, large culture bonus

Hopefully that makes sense. (colours added for clarification)

 

[GarretSidzaka]

I see the ideologies like this;

Neoliberalism - Economically far-right, socially centre-right
Conservatism - Economically right-wing, socially right-wing
Nationalism - Economically centre-right, socially far-right

Communism - Economically far-left, socially centre-left
Autonomism - Economically left-wing, socially left-wing
Anarchism - Economically centre-left, socially far-left

(I mixed up Autonomism and Anarchism in my previous post, it should be;

Neoliberalism - Large money bonus, small culture bonus
Conservatism - Moderate money bonus, moderate culture bonus
Nationalism - Small money bonus, large culture bonus

Communism - Large science bonus, small culture bonus
Autonomism -Moderate science bonus, moderate culture bonus
Anarchism - Small science bonus, large culture bonus

Hopefully that makes sense. (colours added for clarification)

I like!! I like!!1

 

[Dead Flag]

My reasoning for both ends of the freedom scale having the same output is like this;

If you force everyone to follow a proscribed cultural model then that one culture will become very strong.
If you allow everyone to express themselves without protesting you will be generating new culture all along.

My reasoning for the science/money dichotomy is;

Central planning makes data collection much easier, whilst exploitation is obviously a very profitable procedure.

 

[Bahmo]

Should one of the "cultures" maybe be replaced with production bonuses?

Also, I still find that political compass to be too simple for my tastes. It lists authoritarian as the opposite of libertarian, but for me, they're not even mutually exclusive. It is possible to have an authoritarian government policy as a means to libertarian ends; an example is the forceful desegregation under Eisenhower. I have a sinking feeling that a lot of what the Libertarian party's supporters are really gunning for is the rolling back of government policies meant to protect minorities, so that these bigoted citizens can oppress them again.

 

[Dead Flag]

I do, of course, agree with you. It just made things easier to demonstrate, and I'm used to using graphs.

I was thinking about production but I didn't think it was implementable.

 

[GarretSidzaka]

Yeah, we need to find a better name on the cartesian graph for the opposite of authoritarianism.

I think the bonuses will range from +1 to +3 for the ideologies.