3.0 discussion

[GarretSidzaka]

Good point!

I plan on only equipping the nations with the 2NDINF units to start. they will have to 'research' how to get the other units. I will justify this research for the USA as sluggish mobilization.

What this means is that Rebels will get reactionaries, USA will get police, Zaps will get Villagers, ect.

what do you think??>

 

[Dead Flag]

Reactionaries?

 

[Bahmo]

Reactionaries?

2nd Inf for the Northern Rebels. Two punks and a pissed off office worker, with assault weapons.

 

[Dead Flag]

But 'reactionaries' implies that they would be rising in defense of the system, not against it, surely?

 

[GarretSidzaka]

hmmm. i thought that is sounded good. the ones that defend the system in my game are Police.

here is wiki. we are both correct

Reactionary (or reactionist) is a political epithet, generally used as a pejorative, originally applied in the context of the French Revolution to counter-revolutionaries who wished to restore the real or imagined conditions of the monarchical Ancien Régime. Through the 19th century, it was used to refer to those who wished to preserve feudalism or aristocratic privilege against industrialism, republicanism,[1] liberalism, and in some cases socialism.

Later on in the early 20th century, the term also came to describe those favouring a stronger role of the Catholic Church in society, as well as - pejoratively - the diverse groups and individuals criticizing certain aspects of ideologies like liberalism, democratic socialism, secularism, and other leftist ideologies.

 

[Dead Flag]

I wouldn't wish to disagree with such a friendly compromise , but the wiki-quote seems to say that I'm entirely right, and it would not be appropriate to apply it to a left-wing group. It's just that I've spent a fairly long period of time around people who use 'reactionary' as a strong insult.

If you look again at the quote, emphasis mine:

"Later on in the early 20th century, the term also came to describe [snip] the diverse groups and individuals criticizing certain aspects of ideologies like liberalism, democratic socialism, secularism, and other leftist ideologies."

Couldn't they be called revolutionaries instead? Or rioters or something?

 

[GarretSidzaka]

hmm well lets come up with a new name. so far we have revolutionaries and rioters, what else?

 

[Dead Flag]

Street Fighters? (Rolling Stones + Rage Against The Machine reference)

Angry Mob? (C&C Generals reference)

Concerned Citizens?

Disgruntled Proles?

People's Militia?

 

[GarretSidzaka]

i kinda like angry mob

anyone else have some more suggestions?

 

[Bahmo]

"Angry Mob" and "Militia" both would be more appropriate for a larger group than they would for with a formation of three. "Rebels" would be a good catch-all name, seeing as they are basically the normal citizens who rise up at the beginning.

Oh, and back to the balance issue, starting everybody with only second infrantry would still be a little unbalanced, since the police (both Mexican and American) get a bonus against other 2nd Infantry.

My thought to balance it more is to start everyone with free technologies in this scenario, much like the core game does. One thing I think would make sense is giving the rebels a diplomacy tech right off the start, because much of the rest of the world is now mad at the US government and probably not willing to help them; maybe they'd even be willing to be a thorn in their side! Meanwhile, the US could get technologies that enable the building of tanks and planes right off the bat, since a rebel group is likely to start off low-tech.

 

[GarretSidzaka]

well there are six civ's so what techs go to who? i had mulled this one over during the early dev and now it has come back to haunt me

 

[Dead Flag]

"Angry Mob" and "Militia" both would be more appropriate for a larger group than they would for with a formation of three. "Rebels" would be a good catch-all name, seeing as they are basically the normal citizens who rise up at the beginning.

I always assumed that the units were representations of entire regiments or whatever they're called...

 

[Bahmo]

I always assumed that the units were representations of entire regiments or whatever they're called...

While this may be the case, the unit is the weaker of the two infantry units, so it's a little farfetched to assume that it represents the concentrated power of an entire mob or militia. While the terms may refer to a poorly organized unit, the strength in numbers would give it a higher strength rating. The Angry Mob in Generals was incredibly strong, especially when equipped with assault weapons; meanwhile this unit is relatively light, even though it starts with assault weapons. Also, I do not think America has enough genuinely discontented citizens to form a mob unit.

Now, things are different with the Southern rebels. With poverty much worse in chiapas, there is more likelihood of a mob forming. Also, the 2nd Infantry for the Southerners has the same strength rating as units armed with assault weapons, yet they are just rural peasants with hunting rifles and molotovs. I thus think it makes sense to assume that these guys do represent a larger group, and perhaps their formation size should be increased as such.

well there are six civ's so what techs go to who? i had mulled this one over during the early dev and now it has come back to haunt me

If you send me the tech tree, and info about what the techs enable, I may be able to give suggestions.

 

[GarretSidzaka]

@dead flag

yeah, i try to represent the units as groups of people. The 2NDINF units dont really mean a regiment or organization, there more the backround fights between police and rebels.

@Bahmo

When i get the map done (probly soon), then i have to finish the buildings and building graphics, then pop in some final unit arts. after that i have to populate the map with units and buildings. after this i plan on releasing the first beta test. You'll be able to get a good look at the techtree then, and your ideas will get implemented right then during the beta.

After the beta release, all that will be left will be icons, interface, and flavor text, and this is when the community support will be needed the most for flavor text and 2d graphics art

soon soon.... i have been so busy with raising my son, supporting my wife in her *insanely* busy schedule and a secret project you all will find out about in January. these have been keeping me very very busy

@all

i appreciate you guys and your unconditional support of the project. It makes me feel really good
Thank you

 

[Dead Flag]

I'll happily write flavour text, if I have the time.

And, hey, of course we support you; otherwise we might have to try and do it ourselves

 

[GarretSidzaka]

LMAO i guess you have a point!!
When i made the other versions, all i was doing at the time was taking care of my son and making the mod. But now i seem to have recieved some popularity so i have other projects going on!!

I'm pretty busy for someone who dont get paid

 

[Leif]

Hey, how can I help out? What is left to do?

I'm basically useless when it comes to XML and modeling, but I'd be quite happy to hunt for appropriate pictures and brainstorm for game play. While peer editing would make it infinitely better, I can write a decent pedia entry.

 

[GarretSidzaka]

Totally!

Yeah, there will be a TON of pedia writing to do! I got help from sniperrabit!! for the 2D artwork (he is amazing!). I have to add the finishing touches to the map, and im thinking about requesting a new model for the "Support Wonders" to replace the old graphic.

Also: I want you guys to discuss using the Apolstolic Palace mechanic: Should we use it? What should it represent? What should it be call and what graphic?

 

[Dead Flag]

Could we implement it in an alternative way? I'd like to see two apostolic palaces; one for the revolutionaries and one for the reactionaries. One would be some kind of international treaty organisation, perhaps NATO or something?

And the revolutionaries would have something like the Second Workingman's International, with just as much chance to cause major disagreements and perhaps wars between rebel groups...

What I'd also like to see is different negative ideology reactions for each group. Capitalists shouldn't hate Socialists as much as they hate Anarchists, for example. The civics code should be tweaked so that people with different ideologies favour different civics; maybe the ideologies could grant bonuses which work well with their respective civics?

 

[GarretSidzaka]

I have flavored the civics towards the ideologies, yes. it may warrant attention your idea of ideologies getting benefits (however if it requires SDK or python its out for now)

I think apolstolic palace works for the person who building it and would affect their "ideology". i'm not sure how this would end up working, so i might just have to try it out LOL