[Vote] (3-15) Proposal: Imperialism Martial Law rework

[pineappledan]

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VP Congress: Session 3, Proposal 15
Current Martial Law:
Yield penalties in puppeted cities reduced to 60% (from 80%).
Constabularies provide +1 , and garrisons no longer require Gold maintenance.

Current Colonialism:
+10% to sum of Yields, Golden Age duration modifiers, and Combat Modifiers from Global Monopolies; +3 to flat Yields and Happiness from Global Monopolies.
Barracks, Armories, Military Academies, Forts, and Citadels provide +2and +1

This proposal references this proposal, but it's not really a counterproposal:

(3-13a) Proposal: Authority (2/2) - Replace Militarism's Garrison bonus with Barracks requirement

Proposal: Change Authority's militarism policy. Militarism Old: Each city with a garrison gives +1 happiness and +2 culture. -15% to Unit Maintenance, -50% to road maintenance. New: Each city with a barracks gives +1 happiness and +2 culture. -15% to Unit Maintenance, -50% to road maintenance...

forums.civfanatics.com

Problem:

• Colonialism and Martial law are the 2 1st-tier policies in the Imperialism line. Martial Law is very weak, and inferior to Colonialism.
• Martial law boosts a very bad building (constabulary) and gives a very weak gold bonus for unit maintenance reduction. Its only useful ability is the puppet yield penalty reduction, which is situational.
• These two policies overlap with building bonuses for constabulary and armory in Statecraft and Fealty. there is another congress proposal to create another overlap with Authority
• The aforementioned authority policy proposal wants to get rid of a bonus for garrisons, and Imperialism is the only other tree with a (weak) garrison bonus

Proposed Martial Law Change:
Yield penalties in puppeted cities reduced to 60% (from 80%)
Garrisons no longer require Gold maintenance, and provide +1 , +3, and +3
(dropped constabulary bonus)

Proposed Colonialism Change:
Drop +2and +1 to armory and barracks bonuses. No other changes.

Overall the tree loses 2 and 1, and gains 3
The bonus moves from a situational and costly building to a simple garrison bonus, making it easier to use., and providing a stronger incentive for Garrisons.

 

[AndreyK]

It seems good, but still it's a nerf, 3 prod not even close to 2 culture and 1 science.

 

[pineappledan]

The main benefit is the happiness not being on the constabulary

 

[GeneralAmadeus]

I think we should lose the garrison thing entirely from all policies. I get that some people want to keep it because it is different from add +?X to building Y but it is honestly more annoying than interesting. In my current game i have authority and half my cities do not have a garrison. In addition I am in the Atomic era while most of the garrison is basically cavemen. This mechanic belongs in a tree that has a heavy defensive focus, which means it belongs in a tree we do not have.

 

[pineappledan]

The tree with an explicit defensive focus is Fealty. Regardless, I think it's good in Imperialism, because that's a stage of the game where supply is much higher, and you should be keeping some units back for a homeguard. Its current placement in Authority is at a point where your military supply and production is too strained to do both.

 

[GeneralAmadeus]

The only thing that really makes a difference defense wise in Fealty is the Red Fort. Building castles faster does not really help you defend and the city strength bonus just delays things for a turn or two. The closest thing we have to a defensive focus is defender of the faith. I do have a homeguard but the problem is that it is almost never in a city. A city can defend itself and i can always buy a military there. The homeguard is defending the things that can't defend themselves or is mostly navy and air force. What i really do not like about this change is moving happiness away from constabulary.

 

[Revolutionist_8]

I don't think imperialism getting a slight nerf is a good thing. The convenience of garrison happiness is a neat idea for sure, I think that can be just simply added to the tree without any other changes and it still wouldn't upset the balance of the three trees.

 

[axatin]

If this passes and the Authority proposal fails, then we have two policies giving happiness for garrisons. It would be better to defer this proposal for one session and first see what happens to the garrison bonus in the Authority policy.

 

[Stalker0]

Important to note that while the tree overall loses 1 science it gains 3 science earlier in the game, so it could argued it’s a net buff to science overall.


The change of +1 happy from const to garrison makes total sense to me, and if that was the only change it would be a slam dunk. But it goes farther, changing up the yields…does imperials. Really need that?

 

[pineappledan]

It also should be noted that Imperialism is about to get another buff from the Rome Rework that passed last congress (retains all normal buildings in captured cities).

Important to note that while the tree overall loses 1 science it gains 3 science earlier in the game, so it could argued it’s a net buff to science overall.

Colonialism and Martial Law are the 2 1st-tier policies. They unlock at the same time.

But it goes farther, changing up the yields…does imperials. Really need that?

I think it does, yes.

Martial law has no direct yields. Meanwhile Colonialism has yields coming out of its ears: 3 building boosts, 2 improvement boosts, and global monopoly boosts. 2 of those 3 building augments are the same buildings as Fealty and your proposed Authority change. With zero yields, Martial Law is still the vastly inferior 1st tier policy.

 

[FinMc]

Please no more garrison bonuses. Garrison's are annoying and micro-intensive (especially for not a lot of gain).

Civ is a game about making interesting choices, and remembering to send one unit to each city when I am not at war (rare if I am auth/imperialism) isn't an interesting choice, it's a chore.

 

[azum4roll]

I don't get why you don't just put the conscript units in every city and never move or upgrade them.

 

[FinMc]

I don't get why you don't just put the conscript units in every city and never move or upgrade them.

Because the infinitely more valuable fighting/killing things. The opportunity cost of having a unit sit and do nothing vs expand your empire (that if you're auth is literally fueled by killing units/capturing cities) is very very high.

 

[azum4roll]

If you think you need every single unit in your empire to do wars, you're doing something wrong. Either you haven't used up your supply limit or your frontline is just a massive traffic jam.

 

[pineappledan]

I sponsor this

 

[alchx]

I don't get why you don't just put the conscript units in every city and never move or upgrade them.

Ancient units that are permanently garrisoned look ridiculous. In general, I see the need for a garrison only in the late game in the form of anti-aircraft interceptors when the enemy has aircraft. So that there is an additional chance to shoot down a nuclear weapon if I do not notice an aircraft carrier or a nuclear submarine.

Also, recruit units do not require upkeep and do not affect unit-suply/ This directly indicates that the Authority is committed to war, as it can use these units in an offensive war and rotate wounded units, maintaining continuous pressure on the enemy.

 

[pineappledan]

Also, recruit units do not require upkeep and do not affect unit-suply

Recruited units don't cost supply, but they still cost maintenance.

 

[Recursive]

Proposal sponsored by pineappledan.

 

[pineappledan]

Just remembered that there is no method for giving anything other than culture to garrisons. I'm not able to make the necessary table to implement this change, so this proposal can't be implemented as described.

Unless some other modder wants to sponsor this instead, I will have to withdraw this proposal.

Alternatively, I could reshuffle the proposal so that the garrison gives culture, if I am allowed to amend it and reset the vote.

 

[pineappledan]

Alternative Proposed Martial Law Change:
Yield penalties in puppeted cities reduced to 60% (from 80%)
Garrisons no longer require Gold maintenance, and provide +1 , +3
(dropped constabulary bonus)

Alternative Proposed Colonialism Change:
+2and +1 to Military Adacemies, Forts, and Citadels.
(Drop bonus to armory and barracks bonuses. change from 21 to 21)