300

[Xanikk999]

You know whats really funny, it was actually in Sparta were it was mandatory for boys to engage into sexual relations with older men in exchange for tutelage, while in Athens this was not so.

Dude you got it backwards. Oh man...

 

[Fëanor]

Dude you got it backwards. Oh man...

no, i am talking about real history, in the movie Leonidas says that Athenians are boy lovers, while in real history it was the Spartans whom were the Boy Lovers

 

[Sidhe]

I do not think that the vast majority of people will care of any link between 300 and the Us-Iranian relations, the link being somewhat insignificant anyway. One could try to see such relations between films and supposed popular moods anywhere, and imo it would not amount to much.
From what i gather F.Miller is not exactly good at presenting something below the surface, and so his characters are obviously sketches. The film 300 has sketches of people; no one should expect to see something more. I personally liked the battles and the cinematography of them, but there was nothing else to watch. However art is for all; if enough people like something then it automatically gains a reason for existing, and i do not see anything wrong with that.

I remember your views on Troy. If you were Iranian might not your perspective change? I mean there almost black and yet the others are beyond white, it's like saying the Greeks were good and the Persians evil?

Now whether it should be made political is of course the issue and I say not, enjoy it for what it is a film about fiction. But then I'd say the same about Troy and Alexander, total rubbish, mashed by Hollywood as always, the sooner they get out of this let's rewrite history mentality to suit morons the better, it does not sit well with other countries and in some cases it's offensive.

U571 for example had a lot of people who worked at Bletchley Park or were veterans of the actual taking of the German sub spitting teeth, that is disrespectful, making them American, denying the contributions of those who served and died. Now I can take it with a pinch of salt but those who were there are offended, or those who live in x land aren't able to do it.

In 300 it's been blown up out of all proportion because it's expressly BS, from the start but this is an annoying trend that keeps happening elsewhere, so... Keep it real, the morons who don't know jack can please themselves. Box office receipts aren't everything.

no, i am talking about real history, in the movie Leonidas says that Athenians are boy lovers, while in real history it was the Spartans whom were the Boy Lovers

Pederasty wasn't specific in any Greek city, it was widespread in Greek and later Roman culture, what most people don't realise is that it was platonic mostly, only if the boy wanted to make it something else was it so usually.

 

[Xanikk999]

no, i am talking about real history, in the movie Leonidas says that Athenians are boy lovers, while in real history it was the Spartans whom were the Boy Lovers

Ok let me get out my history book...

Yep that confirms it was athenian tradition and not spartan.

But since its not online il direct you to this!

Greek homosexuality.

In the case of the ancient Greeks —specifically the Athenians— the book claims that the sexual roles of the lovers were sharply polarized.

Dont like wikipedia? Here!

More evidence.

 

[Xanikk999]

Pederasty wasn't specific, it was widespread in Greek and later Roman culture, what most people don't realise is that it was platonic mostly, only if the boy wanted to make it something else was it so usually.

I understand this, but it really was more of an athenian tradition more then any other greek city state.

And sparta was the least "gay" according to most evidence.

 

[CaptainF]

Oh great...people are crying racism about this movie too?

Wow...fiction and art and all that good stuff is just going down the crapper due to PC frothmongers.

 

[Sidhe]

I understand this, but it really was more of an athenian tradition more then any other greek city state.

And sparta was the least "gay" according to most evidence.

Hmm possibly but, it was still considered good practice for a young boy to find a mentor. As it was in Roman times, what most people forget is that it was meant to be platonic, you learnt from the elder, you were financed by the elder, in certain areas it was more or less about sex to some degree. But in Sparta I once read something from Herodotus that said. Sex between a man and a woman was for procreation, and sex between a man and man or boy and man was for fun. And that is attributed to Sparta, now it may have been less widespread or more, but the fact is it was culturally widespread.

In Sparta it was illegal for a man to sleep with a noble woman before she was age 18 under penalty of death, when your barracked up and you aint getting any, this must of seemed harsh, no? Not surprising bisexuality was more prevalent.

Whether you think it distasteful or not, it was not only part of the culture but there was no discrimination against it, it was considered normal. Why do you think the Christians wrote laws in the Bible against it, because it was amongst them and it was expressly forbidden, to take a boy. Or a girl, it went on in certain temples with girls too. Part of their culture and intrinsic.

Oh great...people are crying racism about this movie too?

Wow...fiction and art and all that good stuff is just going down the crapper due to PC frothmongers.

Not I but I'm relating what has been said by Iranians.

EDIT: man to sleep with a noble woman. Oops.

 

[Xanikk999]

Hmm possibly but, it was still considered good practice for a young boy to find a mentor. As it was in Roman times, what most people forget is that it was meant to be platonic, you learnt from the elder, you were financed by the elder, in certain areas it was more or less about sex to some degree. But in Sparta I once read something from Herodotus that said. Sex between a man and a woman was for procreation, and sex between a man or boy and man was for fun. And that is attributed to Sparta, now it may have been less widespread or more, but the fact is it was culturally widespread.

In Sparta it was illegal for a noble man to sleep with a woman before age 18 under penalty of death, when your barracked up and you aint getting any, this must of seemed harsh, no? Not surprising bisexuality was more prevalent.

Whether you think it distasteful or not, it was not only part of the culture but there was no discrimination against it, it was considered normal. Why do you think the Christians wrote laws in the Bible against it, because it was amongst them and it was expressly forbidden, to take a boy. Or a girl, it went on in certain temples with girls too. Part of their culture and intrinsic.

Hell, i know it was normal. In athens wives werent even "loved", they were tools for procreation. A nessasary evil even to athenians!

There was this quote i saw where this greek philosopher critisized a greek tyrant for "loving" his wife.

 

[Kozmos]

What ewww, sucking dong for tutelage of swordsmanship doesnt make it any less gay.

 

[Sidhe]

Hell, i know it was normal. In athens wives werent even "loved", they were tools for procreation. A nessasary evil even to athenians!

There was this quote i saw where this greek philosopher critisized a greek tyrant for "loving" his wife.

I edited that I miswrote it. Fear not the temple of Aphrodites priestesses in Sparta were all high class whores, pretty much, well as high as it got, they still got some it just depended on their sexual preference. Even the lower class Scritae could find a common whore of either sex obviously. Trouble was those in the Barracks would not be independently wealthy unless they were very high born, or of the "middle" classes found a mentor.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

"Women for children and boys for pleasure".

Such is the supposed saying.

 

[Sidhe]

"Women for children and boys for pleasure".

Such is the supposed saying.

Supposed? It's fairly common place in ancient Greek texts, shall we say supposedly The Bible was against pederasty or supposedly it wasn't? Because it's only in one text?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Well, I am not doubting it, just didn't have the text handy you know.

 

[Sidhe]

Well, I am not doubting it, just didn't have the text handy you know.

I do but it's been a while since I studied it, and you can be sure I aint going to look through 800 pages to find the exact quote.

 

[El_Machinae]

What about spilling coke or popcorn all over myself or my date?

Anything?

Chicks love a shy guy, who's not a horn-dog. At least, that's my experience.

 

[El_Machinae]

People have no problem with it because the ethnic group being treated that way are Iranian, the flavor of the month in global 'badboys'. How would they feel if the ethnic group had been Chinese, or Scandinavian, or French, or whatever?

When's the last time you've seen a 'human' Mongol barbarian in a movie? A 'human' Hun?

 

[shortguy]

I understand this, but it really was more of an athenian tradition more then any other greek city state.

And sparta was the least "gay" according to most evidence.

What do you mean, "most evidence"? I don't think that's clear at all. If Athenian comedy is to be believed, then the Spartans were notorious for the worst excesses of the pederastic system.

 

[Darth_Pugwash]

I think it's worth noting that in ancient Greece, 'to spartanize' meant 'to bugger'.

 

[Princeps]

There was this quote i saw where this greek philosopher critisized a greek tyrant for "loving" his wife.

That is a marriage issue. A man loving his wife was like a boss loving his secretary.

 

[Kyriakos]

My view is that all art serves some puprose; i was dissapointed by 300, but this does not have any consequence to others; i am sure that many people actually liked it and that is fine by me. It is not like what other people feel should be restricted by my own views.
I agree of course that the film presents a clearly black & white contrast. Efialtes was not golum, the dialogue was very poor, there was no plot to speak of and all that was interesting was already taken from history and not that well used at that.
However it is not like this film had any seal of the ministy of thought; it is just a film which targets an audience.
Why claim that it should be termed "rubbish" when there are people who liked it? I find this to be too elitist for my own taste.