3UC/4UC for VP: Project Coordination Thread

[hokath]

@pdan
Ok I added 1 range and made a santa maria clone.
That's it for me and the coding. Hope it helped out.

 

[pineappledan]

Same problem as for the "Sacker" promotion : how will the AI handle this ?

Who cares? if all it does is make the city get razed 2x as fast, it's just a small quality of life thing at that point.

A reverse "Garland mines" ? That would be quite nice. The name of the promotion is too long unfortunately (and using only a part of this name would ruin the beauty of it) : why not using "Vae victis" (woe to the vanquished) instead ? It is less direct than "Bellum se ipsum allet" in its relation to the effect of the bonus, but it is still related to the pillaging of Roman territory (by people Romans would call barbarians).

Could shorten it to Bellum Alet' (The War Feeds)

The problem is that we don't know how the AI will handle this either...

I don't like re-implementing battering ram either. Keep it as a CS gift; it's fun as a CS gift if you can get it fast enough.

I'm thinking Bellum Alet' is the best option. It's a mirror to @Blue Ghost's garland mine promotion, and it serves a similar purpose to the "Barbarian commander" promotion.

If you kill a unit in combat and convert it, it spawns with 25 HP. Another tarkhan can come along and pillage a nearby improvement to help keep your new unit alive.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Ok, @hokath, thank you. I will be doing revisions anyways.
@Infixo I also had one game after loading mods (VP + IGE + our mod) when tech tree didn't load. Loading it second time helped.

 

[FoxOfWar]

Woooooo. Took only most of today(thank goodness for having a second screen), but I have done arrived at b'ak'tun #13 on Marathon.

Turn 1248.

(I don't think I have had Marathon game take this long more than a very small handful of times, heh. Technically speaking I lost some four hundred turns earlier to a runaway culture victory by Rome who decided to own two-thirds of the world, but eh.)

Now to do the same on Epic xD

 

[adan_eslavo]

That's why I prefer fast speed sometimes normal.Thanks for your patience.

 

[pineappledan]

Thank you @hokath, I just finished migrating all the texts, including Japan's into the master text file and deleting the redundant text entries.

Japan is now complete except for the .lua for the yields on constructions/destruction of a yamato. Easy.
Korea is now complete except for 1Gold and 2%GPP on Chaebol for every international trade route. Also easy

Out of curiosity, I hope my notes on the 4UC spreadsheet were helpful, and my code wasn't too sloppy? Did you have any trouble?

I added a blurb about the yields on construction/destruction for the yamato, and edited the civilopedia accordingly I also quadrupled the GrAdPts from kills (4x killed unit strength):

The Yamato-class battleships were battleships of the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) constructed and operated during World War II. Displacing 72,000 long tons (73,000 t) at full load, the vessels were the heaviest and most powerfully armed battleships ever constructed. The class carried the largest naval artillery ever fitted to a warship, nine 460-millimetre (18.1 in) naval guns, each capable of firing 1,360 kg (3,000 lb) shells over 42 km (26 mi). Two battleships of the class (Yamato and Musashi) were completed, while a third (Shinano) was converted to an aircraft carrier during construction. All were sunk by American forces during WWII.

Due to their size, speed, and power, The Yamato-class visibly embodied Japan's determination and readiness to defend its interests against the western powers, especially the United States. One of the reasons that the warship may have such significance in Japanese culture is that the word "Yamato" was often used as a poetic name for Japan itself. Thus, the construction and subsequent destruction of the Yamato battleships could serve as a metaphor for the rise and fall of Japanese imperial aspirations.

@Blue Ghost, I'm sad to see the Slaganz has no diplomatic function anymore. Had you given any thought to my idea for a different Druhtiz Oath?

Slaganz:
Furor Teutonicus: 50% vs barbarians. Not lost on promotion.
Native Tongue promotion: 50% chance of converting barbarian on kill. Converted Barbarians have the Druhtiz Oath promotion and unit action. Lost on promotion

Druhtiz Oath promotion: +1 CS
Druhtiz Oath Unit action: When adjacent to City-State, consumes unit and receive 10 influence with City-State

So Druhtiz is a weak emissary action, but you can only do it with captured barbarians, not the Slaganz itself.

• AI should be able to understand the Emissary action, and all that would be needed is to lift the unit action from the Civ IV diplomacy mod already in VP, and change some numbers/text
• This gets around G's new nerf to unit gifts to CS (can't gift if CS already owns 5 units)
• If the AI can't seem to use it well, they still get +1 CP on their converted units
  • the +1 CP would make brutes match slaganz for power, and bring captured horsemen back up to the strength of normal horsemen (barb horsemen only have 14CP)

 

[De_Genius]

Holy crap you guys are really going at it Nice to see progress keep going.
I had to read through 20 pages, since I did no longer get alerts with updates for some reason.
Now I am up to date again.
I am currently embroiled in a game session in another game, but when I get finished there, I will do some testing with this mod.

Anything particular scenarios you need more than anything else ? I am referring to game speed, map size, specific civs etc.

 

[Infixo]

I had to read through 20 pages, since I did no longer get alerts with updates for some reason.

You only get 1 alert per thread, for the first unread post.

 

[Hinin]

So... I did quite a lot of playtests to see how some civs were doing.

Spoiler Morocco pirate peninsula :

Morocco has long been my favourite civilization when playing the economic game (at least, it was before the rework of its UA) : the Kasbah can be used to make a city in a very poor a lot more useful, and the Berber cavalry, in its era, is really useful thanks to its mobility).
So, what to say about Morocco in its current version :

- I went for Tradition/Statecraft/Industry/Freedom : I had a lot of TR, and was able to steal a lot of technologies from my angry neighbours in order to lessen the tech gap (my early game wasn't good). I allied myself with a runaway Egypt (Ramses liked me : I adopted his religion and did nothing to bother him) and had a defense pact with it (the TR to the Egyptian territory brought 30 science/culture, so it was quite the important partnership for me) : this defense pact allowed me to kill most non-Egyptian TR in the region while staying out of conflicts, and this become even more true when the Corsairs arrived.

- The new Moroccan UA has good and bad elements : the "no distance penalty for TR" part makes Moroccan TR a lot more reliable in the yield they bring, but the "yield in capital for each different civilization with which Morocco trades" part brings very limited results in the end (I think the yields should be doubled to make this bonus significant). The tweaks for the Kasbah make Moroccan coastal cities even more potent (which is a good thing, when combined with the Corsair).

- The Corsair, as we know, is meant to synergize with the new Moroccan UA and brings lots of production/food to the homeland : in standard speed, plundering a TR brought 100 fo/pr and pillaging brought 50 fo/pr. This brings some interesting "hidden bonus" to the unit : in times of war, it is possible to spam Corsairs, simply because killing enemy units accelerate their arrival (so defending a coastal city against ranged ships is a lot easier, since the unexpected intervention of a Corsair can flood the defending city with production). I think that, in order to be brought at the same level as the other Corvette replacements, the Corsair should be available on tech tier earlier (maybe at Banking : it would be thematically appropriate, and Banking is a tech Morocco should unlock quickly to have more TR/money).

- We've already discussed a lot about the "Barbary pirate" promotion and what it could be, and you already know my opinion on it : I don't think that allowing the Corsair to freely enter rival territory would be that much of a problem (if you discover that Moroccan units disturb your economy, declare war on Morocco, and if Morocco has a defense pact, well, it is well played and that's all ; for the pathfinding errors @Blue Ghost said it could bring, I would simply answer that Chinese UM2 already pass trough my territory without it creating problems). Because I think the unit is good, but is still a bit behind compared to other UMs, here is my suggestion for the "Barbary pirate" promotion : Barbary pirate (NL) - Can freely enter rival territory ; can pillage improvements without a Declaration of War.

- The Riad works well (and the Hanging Garden has become an important wonder for Morocco, since having an early Riad can really bring a lot of benefit in the Classical era), but there is no indication that the building brings GM points/culture (only when looking at the jauges can we see the effects) : I suggest making popups similar to what happen with the Portuguese UA in order to make the bonus easier to spot.

All in all, I still like this civilization a lot, and the new UCs brings interesting bonus to the table, but I think some tweaks are needed for the Moroccan UA, some buffs for the Moroccan UM2 and some popups for the Moroccan UB.

Spoiler Byzantium conondrum :

I played a short game with Byzantium (I didn't want to make it too long, since I know some changes are coming for this civ) :
- The Dromon isn't that powerful when compared to the Penteconter (+2 CP ; "Splash damage" ; "Greek fire"), but the base unit is already quite feared, so it appears logical.
- I had some problems with the Hippodrome : at the beginning of the Classical era (so before I had built the UW), all my cities suffered a turn a resistance, and my capital gained 10 turns of WLTKD (same problem as for the "Barbican" promotion, @adan_eslavo ?) ; when I built the UW, there was no event, and all my cities gained 20 turns of WLTKD (when the Game Info the UW doesn't specify the WLTKD day will happen in all cities).
=> The Hippodrome itself can be quite useful when combined with the Mausoleum of Hallicarnasus, the Synagogue and the Baths (+30 % gold, +25 % science, +30 % culture, +10 % production when WLTKD in city).

Spoiler Ottoman gadgets :

The Ottoman is the only civilization with two UBs giving production and promotions (one is more geared toward Siege units and science, while the other advantages coastal cities and Melee ships), which made me wonder how the civilization was doing in practice :

- The Imperial cannon foundry (what a complex name ! why not simply renaming the building "Cannon foundry", or even "Foundry") brings a hefty amount of science (which is good for when playing Progress, like I did), and some production (not that much, +1 or +2 compared to the Forge in the early game). Its main utility however is that it allows you to produce multiple superior Siege units in no time (2 turns to produce a Catapult at standard speed ? Why not !), and makes the Great Bombard a lot easier to produce (since it will take around the same time for an Ottoman player to produce a GBombard than for other players to produce Trebuchets).

- Speaking of the GBombard, what a beast ! As its Historical info in the civilopdia suggests, its appearance marks the end of an era : in my game, a city which resisted during all the Classical era to my armies fell in one turn to that monster. Against cities, this is by far the most destructive force of the game for its time ; however, against units, it performs quite poorly, and hurts itself when firing (so it is quite the ultra-specialized unit). I suggest nerfing it a bit (+250 % RCS against cities instead of +350 % RCS) : since the unit will have the "Volley" promotion (+50 % RCS against cities) anyway, it will still be an extremely powerful anti-city weapon, but it mustn't be the kind to tear down a 45 CP capital in one turn like it did in my game (even though what it did to Constantinople corresponds exactly to this).

- The Tersane is a building which marks the transition of the Ottoman from a pure land power to a naval power : some more tests will be needed, but I think that the combination of the "+1 production to Sea tiles", "+30 % production for melee ships" and the "Prize ship promotion to melee ships produced in city" is too powerful (one of the bonus should be suppressed or toned down) : in my game, I didn't have the occasion to fight a maritime war unfortunately, but the production the building brought was quite significant...

The main drawback of the Ottoman is that the advantages the UC brings don't help increasing your happiness that much : the production of the ICFoundry isn't that important, so no real acceleration in the creaction of necessary buildings, the Ottoman UA brings yields that aren't taken into account by the cities (so no unhappiness reduction), and the two Ottoman UMs are geared toward conquest, which brings more unhappiness ; at the end, only the Tersan can help you fight back the wave of unhappiness that can crush your economy (and your military) in the mid-game.

I also played with the Mayas with the v.24 (so the Holkan had 3 MP instead of the "Trailblazer I" promotion), and rushing the Kuna and then Mathematics is really a fun thing with the Holkan. Afterwards, the combination of the promotions granted by the Pitz court and the Atlatlist make your armies quite powerful in defense throughout the game (a much needed bonus, since, apart from the UA, the Mayas have nothing else coming).
During recent games, I've encountered the Mayas two times, and they were quite aggresive in the early game (ofter with one or two techs more than me) and played Tradition (which I think is an error, but it made them even more brutal in defense, even though each time they fell to two fronts invasions).

Have a good day !

 

[adan_eslavo]

@Hinin:

• I noticed that bug ith no Hippo yesterday and it should be fixed.
• I added proper notifications for every event of Hippodrome,
• For now it has:
  • after building Hippo in your capital (you cannot do this anywhere else) you get 20 (scales with game speed) wLTKD in every of your cities.
  • after new era, with Hippodrome built,
    • if your emppire is no in anarchy state (event with era starts twice, I don't know why. So to prevent this there's anarchy check)
      
    • you get 1 turn anarchy (no scaling) on Empire (cannot do this for one city).
      
    • Then You get 10 (scales with speed) WLTKD in your capital.
      
    • One catch: you get both at once, but WLTKD is incremented by 1 so you will get 1 turn anarchy and 11 WLTKD. When anarchy ends 10 WLTKD starts. Easier implementation.

• It is real name brought to game. And Imperial Cannon Foundry sounds so Imperialistic,
• Yech 350% is way too much. I thought about reducing it, but after some tests.
• Maybe we could rework tersane to give some happiness?

• I plan to replace lua code for Mingghan promotion (Bonus on pillage tile) SQL value PillageBonusStrength used also by Viking promotion.

 

[pineappledan]

We shouldn’t give happiness to tersane, because happiness problems are ottoman’s Achilles heel. Like black213 said, we should not aim to plug perceived holes in any civs abilities. Perhaps we could swap the production on sea tiles with gold, so it’s a little weaker?

 

[adan_eslavo]

Why Danish pillage bonus on tiles doesn't work? There's no info in battle tooltip about additional bonus.

• Changed production to gold on tersane.
• Deleted Siege Engine II from Bombard.

Any changes to Hippodrome?

 

[pineappledan]

If it was just resistance and wltkd in the capital that would be more what was intended. You say that isn’t possible though

 

[Hinin]

What about the Riad popups and the changes for the Corsair, @adan_eslavo, @pineappledan ?
Also, I just checked the civilopedia article for the Waag, and here is what I got.

Spoiler Picture :

 

[pineappledan]

Oh noes!

 

[adan_eslavo]

I made floating popup message for Riad and most of buildings. Rest of them got also notification on right side of the screen, but for Riad it would be really spamming and uncomfortable (every notification from each trade rout every turn).

 

[Hinin]

I made floating popup message for Riad and most of buildings. Rest of them got also notification on right side of the screen, but for Riad it would be really spamming and uncomfortable (every notification from each trade rout every turn).

I was talking about floating messages of course (the same kind of thing the Portuguese UA does).

 

[IcyAngel]

With the latest version, cities start with 2 range.

My bad, mods weren't the problem I just forgot to delete my modpack. x.x

 

[adan_eslavo]

I found that Standshutzen is buffing Land Units and description on 4uc says it is land military units. I can make it only for military units. What do you say?

 

[pineappledan]

Anything particular scenarios you need more than anything else ? I am referring to game speed, map size, specific civs etc.

I think that testing can take a back seat to the last of the .lua coding which needs to be done. If we can push through the last 6-7 civs then we have the full 43. Having the full set of civs will get more people interested in testing for us, and we should be able to get more people downloading and trying it out.

Lua to do:
Huns
Horse archer - new promotion to replace Accuracy I implemented in .lua. lua exists., just need to check that the code is working
Tarkhan - new migration promotion (+1 movement to workers and settlers that begin turn stacked with tarkhan. lua exists, but need to edit it and check if it works
Tarkhan - new "Bellum Alet" promotion. basically a reverse of blue ghost's garland mine that heals friendly units on pillage instead of hurting enemy units. Can copy and modify BG's code to make it.
Alti-Cur - yields from city state tribute. need a lua to trigger bonus yields on tribute demands
Alti-Cur - Golden Age on Civ successful demand. need a lua to trigger golden age when you successfully demand something from a major civ

Japan
Yamato - need lua to trigger GA points whenever a yamato is constructed, and GAP/culture yields for whoever kills a Yamato.

Korea
Chaebol - need lua to give Chaebol building Gold and % GPPs for every international trade route on empire

Zulu
Iziko - need lua for culture in city (scaling with era) for every time a unit levels up on empire
InDuna - need lua for giving XP to stacked and adjacent units when an InDuna is expended (ie. on citadel construction)

Inca
Chasqui - need lua for 15HP heal every turn on unit when inside owned territory (like a march promotion, but only in your own land)
Tambo/Coca - need lua to give/remove unique Coca monopoly promotion to all military units when empire gets/loses monopoly on Coca. Need the same thing for all civilian units (military and civilian units get 2 different promotions from coca monopoly)

Songhai
Sofa - need lua for new promotion. essentially a copy of the GG 15% RCS/CS boost if within 2 tiles, but ONLY applies to mounted units. So if mounted unit is in 2 range of a sofa it gets boost
Qadi - need lua for 'jizya' effect; 1 Gold for every citizen not following your majority religion.
Qadi - need lua to convert 10% production to culture in city. The Indian Qila does the exact same thing, but with food, you can lift code from there.

So the low point over the fence is Japan and Korea right now. I expect the Sofa code will be the most complex