3UC/4UC for VP: Project Coordination Thread

[adan_eslavo]

Trailblazer (Scout)
12 CS (up from 10)
No penalty vs. barbarians
Can found cities
Founded cities start with 2 population, a Monument and a Shrine

I agree it's now better but with this buff to scout we dont need settler anymore. What about Traiblazer (Settler) which could be military unit?

 

[Blue Ghost]

Spoiler America :

I agree it's now better but with this buff to scout we dont need settler anymore. What about Traiblazer (Settler) which could be military unit?

The Scout is unlocked at Sailing, so America would still need to build settlers if they want to settle cities in ancient era.

 

[adan_eslavo]

You are right. But take a look at the situation when your pathfinder at turn 2nd find ancient ruins with free upgrade. Its instant city in turn 3. It could shake the balance. If it was settler substitute problem is solved. It could be like workboat UU in custom chinook civ.

 

[pineappledan]

America's still broken. TL;DR, I hate the trailblazer; I find the idea offensively stupid.

Spoiler :

Assuming you keep build cost the same as base scout (90), Trailblazer would be:
85% of a settler's build cost, AND can be bought instantly, which you can't do with settlers.
be able to defend itself/not be capturable
ignore terrain
not stop city growth on construction
also gets 80 hammers worth of buildings, and a free pop.
Consider that the only other unit that can settle (Conquistador) comes in at the medieval, effectively too late a unit to snag prime real estate, is limited to offshore cities only, and deep water can't be crossed for another full tech level. I'm still a proponent of just making the monitor the new UU. The assets already exist in the game, you don't need to anyone's permission for them, and it's an actual piece of US history instead of anachronistic bullsh*t

I am honestly dumbfounded by the resilience of this trailblazer UU idea. The idea is dumb. No assets exist to support it, to my knowledge. It's unbalanced. It has not one iota of historicity; no Classical-Era unit could have any relevance to American identity. Period. What's more, the pioneer is already laser focused as a nod to American settlers. why, why WHY will this idea not die? /rant over

Homestead:
compare to polder, available at the same tech level (guilds)
3 food, 2 gold, 1 prod
+1 gold to villages and towns adjacent
requires fresh water

So, the Dutch UI is:
Roughly the same base yields (+1/0/-1)
gets less for adjacencies to villages and towns (no culture), and no adjacencies at all to pastures
more restricted by tile requirements (requires fresh water)

That homestead can be built on everything a farm can, except for floodplains. Generally there is a hard rule against UIs that can be built on such common terrain, since certain ideologies give overwhelmingly good yields. There was hubbub a while back about how Polynesia was being railroaded into autocracy because the military industrial complex tenet (3 science on all UIs) was too good to pass over for a civ that had relatively low requirements for their UI, but otherwise wasn't a domination civ. The only comparative UI is the Hun's Eki, which has much worse yields and is limited to tiles without fresh water.

Possible fix:
Same base yields (2f/2g/2p)
homestead must be adjacent to 1 pasture and 1 farm.
Contributes to farm adjacency system (+1 food for every 2 farms)
+1 culture to adjacent pastures
cannot be adjacent to another homestead.

Arabia

Spoiler :

The difficulty with Arabic UUs is that Arabic battle tactics almost exclusively name and describe mounted tactics, and they already have a cavalry replacement

Possible units:
Hashemite Raider (my personal pick, Give them a later era unit from the Arab revolt.)
Replaces light tank.
65RCS (same as light tank)
50 CS (same as light tank)
Garland mine promotion - +1 movement from plundering trade routes. gain gold from pillaging roads and railways as if they were normal improvements
No movement to pillage
does not require oil

Ghilman - slave soldiers used by the Abbasid, and later dynasties starting in the 9th century. These soldiers would gradually replace traditional Arabic rank-and-file and come to have great political clout in the empire

Abna 'al Dawah (sons of the regime), the group which rose up against the Umayyads to replace them with the Abbasids (the dynasty of Harun al-Rashid). There is little information about the Abna's tactics or armament that isn't behind various paywalls or in books. However, the final battle of the revolt, which cemented Abbasid succession and thereby the ascension of the Abna was best remembered as an abject failure by the Umayyads to break a spear wall established by the Abbasids, so perhaps a pikeman replacement?

Assyria

Spoiler :

Iron Chariot - looked this up on wikipedia. It looks like chariots formed the core of military tactics for Assyrian tactics, but as shock cavalry. I think replacing the horseman makes more sense, therefore, or replace the chariot archer with a melee unit, like the Hittites in the 7 wonders scenario. The base melee chariot in the 7 wonders scenario only has 2 horses, and it looks like the Assyrians favoured a 4-horse configuration. It's a small detail, not sure if it's worth the trouble. Alternatively, the chariot assets from the Hyksos mod look badass.
My proposal:
Iron Chariot - Horseman replacement
17 CS (+3, same as elephant)
4 movement (chariot rough terrain movement penalty)
+25% CS on attack (From the same article, Assyrian battle tactics emphasized pure offense/shock tactics)
no horses required

The walls of Sargon - I'm glad you didn't go with the proposed temple replacement, but I think the Lamassu idea is actually worth keeping as a wall replacement. In Lamassu are guardian entities which were placed on major gateways. They are mythological gatekeepers and protectors of the Assyrians. The walls of Assyrian cities were never recorded to be nearly as impressive as the walls of Babylon, but perhaps something to represent the more divine nature of Assyria's mythical gatekeepers?
My proposal:
Lamassu Gate - Wall Replacement
+1 culture
+75hp (25 more than base walls)
10 defense (same as base walls)
-20% to enemies adjacent to city (a mirror of the siege tower)
units garrisoned in city heal an additional 5hp/turn

Austria looks fine. no comments

Aztec

Spoiler :

Eagle - yaaaaay, you saw my comment on this. it looks good to me!

Huey Teocalli - I'm glad the yields on death was scrapped from the proposal. it seemed boring. Also considering Huey Teocalli is dedicated to 2 gods, 1 of war and 1 of agriculture, it seemed weird that the original proposal didn't give any military benefit or growth boost, and focused on great works. No boosts to building yields either, which is a staple of unique wonders.
The proposed empire-wide boost to forest and jungle is both better than Iroquois' longhouse AND doesn't require anything to be built in other cities. No. Combined with the +1 food on all rivers from chinampa, you would have absurd yields off river jungle with no improvements. The Songhai just got a nerf last patch for something not even half as powerful as this.

And still no recognition that this was a temple to Huitzilopochtli and Tlaloc.

Proposed change:
Huey Teocalli - Heroic Epic replacement
3 culture (up from 1 on normal heroic epic)
+1 food from shrines
+1 culture from barracks
provides a source of fresh water for city (in recognition of Tlaloc, the rain god), allows you to build the chinampa in this city without restriction
Golden Ages permanently add +3 XP for all units trained in this city, +1 production and +2 food in city

 

[Jarula]

Any thoughts on curia harpago?

Oh and America what about White house or if we wanted to get funky and really cool

UB movie producers guild
Basically another guild with unique specialist Cinematographer

Along with UU
Great producer can create Unique great works of writing to America

Could be VERY unique and clever.

 

[FoxOfWar]

Any thoughts on curia harpago?

Oh and America what about White house or if we wanted to get funky and really cool

UB movie producers guild
Basically another guild with unique specialist Cinematographer

Along with UU
Great producer can create Unique great works of writing to America

Could be VERY unique and clever.

I'm rather iffy on the idea of a Unique Great Person, let alone one that only comes so late in the game that in half of the games it might as well not matter.

Sidenote: currently giving Poland a test drive, so far no problems.

 

[Jarula]

What about Curia instead of Latifundia?

Does it appear balanced or fair.

I think it captures the positive aspects of Rome best. Plus it gives Rome a reason to go industry in the late game.

Rome was the most advanced society in ancient history in terms of social classes and class conflict and dialectics.

The progress created through administration very concievable could have created a society as technology advanced that could have eventually liberated itself from the patrician class. A multinational multiethnic Utopia if it didn't buckle. And end to warfare among countless ethnic groups and religions even so far as public works such as health and the welfare of it's common people.

The remarkable institutions of the curia and government are still used today rewarding the continued progress internally instead of simply focusing on the war machine could make a fair and fun Rome to play against or as with 3rd and 4th UC

 

[pineappledan]

Any thoughts on curia harpago?

Oh and America what about White house or if we wanted to get funky and really cool

I think the Smithsonian is great as is. I wouldn't want a second national wonder for anyone who isn't Venice.
I don't have a problem with the homestead in theory, only in the balance as it was most recently presented. As America is currently described in Blue Ghost's post, it is basically a "win at video games" button and we already have one of those

The progress created through administration very concievable could have created a society as technology advanced that could have eventually liberated itself from the patrician class. A multinational multiethnic Utopia if it didn't buckle. And end to warfare among countless ethnic groups and religions even so far as public works such as health and the welfare of it's common people.

... what the hell??? Rome wasn't some sort of Utopia, and it never was going to be. You can like Roman culture and their contributions to the world, but the sun didn't shine out of their asses. In fact, I like the Latifundium the best of all civilian uniques suggested because it gives an opportunity to discuss Rome's slave economy. So much of our conception of Roman history is focused only on the rich and powerful 0.0001%, or their military conquests.

I don't like the curia for several reasons:
It's tied more to Roman Catholicism than to the actual Romans. If the Curia were to be in game I would sooner have it as a religious tenet than tied to any 1 civ.
I don't like the idea of giving Rome a post-Constantine building, I feel like Rome, as represented in game, is meant to conjure the late republic and early empire up to the 5 good emperors. Up till then Rome was not only pluralist, but actively persecuted Christians as politically convenient scapegoats.
Suddenly giving Rome a faith unique is unfocused. Keep the focus on culture, gold, infrastructure and military.

Okay, I feel this needs to be said. The glory of empire isn't in a vacuum, you don't get to have empire without a body count. In 8 years, 2 million men women and children were cut down or enslaved for the political prestige of one Latin psychopath, and they made him dictator for life because of it. Estimates put that between 10 and 15% of the entire population of western Europe at the time. Rome was not heaven on earth, it was a genocidal dictatorship, fed alternatively by slaves or by strip mining endemic peoples of their wealth.

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

 

[pineappledan]

I'm looking at the Indonesia uniques, and maybe I can take a shot at that. My problem with Indonesia right now is they are not a maritime civ anymore, and not much in the existing suggestions fixes that. Here are my proposed additions:

Indonesia

Spoiler :

Prau - Trireme replacement (the original thread had it as 'perahu', but that is Malay. Prau is the Javanese equivalent. The Anglicized version is proa)
available at fishing (1 tech earlier)
costs 70 production (down from 90)
14 attack
6 movement (+2 movement over trireme)
ignores zone of control
reasoning: it didn't make sense to me to increase CS or make them into cargo vessels, as the original thread suggested. Proa are too small for effective cargo shipping, and they aren't really warships. The thing that makes proa interesting is that they are maneuverable and they are FAST. This form of craft holds many of the modern speed sailing records, exceeding 90 kmph, so I think any aspect of their in-game representation should come from that. At that early stage in the game you're more interested in using these boats to scout anyways.)

Kampung - Unique Improvement, built by embarked workers (does not consume work boats)
available at sailing (optics in base game)
can be built on any coastal tile adjacent to a sea resource.
cannot be built adjacent to each other
+1 food and +1 culture
+1 culture at compass
reasoning: The base mod gives adjacent sea resources 5% naval construction when worked, I'm thinking of removing that. I don't see much point in having it, and there's not much in Indonesia's kit which steers it towards naval militarism. With the elevated importance of culture in CBP, I think it's already strong enough without it.
The stilt villages and house boats of the Sama-Bajau are a shared cultural heritage of Malaysia, Philippines and Indonesia, but only 1 of those is in the game. I wanted to give Indonesia a reason to value coast again, but the yields can't be too good, since sea tiles are already good enough

The Kampung assets exist. the Prau assets do not. The best I can use as a stand-in is probably the tongiaki from the tonga mod. If anyone has any interest in building assets for this unit, message me

 

[Blue Ghost]

America's still broken. TL;DR, I hate the trailblazer; I find the idea offensively stupid.

Spoiler :

Assuming you keep build cost the same as base scout (90), Trailblazer would be:
85% of a settler's build cost, AND can be bought instantly, which you can't do with settlers.
be able to defend itself/not be capturable
ignore terrain
not stop city growth on construction
also gets 80 hammers worth of buildings, and a free pop.
Consider that the only other unit that can settle (Conquistador) comes in at the medieval, effectively too late a unit to snag prime real estate, is limited to offshore cities only, and deep water can't be crossed for another full tech level. I'm still a proponent of just making the monitor the new UU. The assets already exist in the game, you don't need to anyone's permission for them, and it's an actual piece of US history instead of anachronistic bullsh*t

I am honestly dumbfounded by the resilience of this trailblazer UU idea. The idea is dumb. No assets exist to support it, to my knowledge. It's unbalanced. It has not one iota of historicity; no Classical-Era unit could have any relevance to American identity. Period. What's more, the pioneer is already laser focused as a nod to American settlers. why, why WHY will this idea not die? /rant over

Homestead:
compare to polder, available at the same tech level (guilds)
3 food, 2 gold, 1 prod
+1 gold to villages and towns adjacent
requires fresh water

So, the Dutch UI is:
Roughly the same base yields (+1/0/-1)
gets less for adjacencies to villages and towns (no culture), and no adjacencies at all to pastures
more restricted by tile requirements (requires fresh water)

That homestead can be built on everything a farm can, except for floodplains. Generally there is a hard rule against UIs that can be built on such common terrain, since certain ideologies give overwhelmingly good yields. There was hubbub a while back about how Polynesia was being railroaded into autocracy because the military industrial complex tenet (3 science on all UIs) was too good to pass over for a civ that had relatively low requirements for their UI, but otherwise wasn't a domination civ. The only comparative UI is the Hun's Eki, which has much worse yields and is limited to tiles without fresh water.

Possible fix:
Same base yields (2f/2g/2p)
homestead must be adjacent to 1 pasture and 1 farm.
Contributes to farm adjacency system (+1 food for every 2 farms)
+1 culture to adjacent pastures
cannot be adjacent to another homestead.

Arabia

Spoiler :

The difficulty with Arabic UUs is that Arabic battle tactics almost exclusively name and describe mounted tactics, and they already have a cavalry replacement

Possible units:
Hashemite Raider (my personal pick, Give them a later era unit from the Arab revolt.)
Replaces light tank.
65RCS (same as light tank)
50 CS (same as light tank)
Garland mine promotion - +1 movement from plundering trade routes. gain gold from pillaging roads and railways as if they were normal improvements
No movement to pillage
does not require oil

Ghilman - slave soldiers used by the Abbasid, and later dynasties starting in the 9th century. These soldiers would gradually replace traditional Arabic rank-and-file and come to have great political clout in the empire

Abna 'al Dawah (sons of the regime), the group which rose up against the Umayyads to replace them with the Abbasids (the dynasty of Harun al-Rashid). There is little information about the Abna's tactics or armament that isn't behind various paywalls or in books. However, the final battle of the revolt, which cemented Abbasid succession and thereby the ascension of the Abna was best remembered as an abject failure by the Umayyads to break a spear wall established by the Abbasids, so perhaps a pikeman replacement?

Assyria

Spoiler :

Iron Chariot - looked this up on wikipedia. It looks like chariots formed the core of military tactics for Assyrian tactics, but as shock cavalry. I think replacing the horseman makes more sense, therefore, or replace the chariot archer with a melee unit, like the Hittites in the 7 wonders scenario. The base melee chariot in the 7 wonders scenario only has 2 horses, and it looks like the Assyrians favoured a 4-horse configuration. It's a small detail, not sure if it's worth the trouble. Alternatively, the chariot assets from the Hyksos mod look badass.
My proposal:
Iron Chariot - Horseman replacement
17 CS (+3, same as elephant)
4 movement (chariot rough terrain movement penalty)
+25% CS on attack (From the same article, Assyrian battle tactics emphasized pure offense/shock tactics)
no horses required

The walls of Sargon - I'm glad you didn't go with the proposed temple replacement, but I think the Lamassu idea is actually worth keeping as a wall replacement. In Lamassu are guardian entities which were placed on major gateways. They are mythological gatekeepers and protectors of the Assyrians. The walls of Assyrian cities were never recorded to be nearly as impressive as the walls of Babylon, but perhaps something to represent the more divine nature of Assyria's mythical gatekeepers?
My proposal:
Lamassu Gate - Wall Replacement
+1 culture
+75hp (25 more than base walls)
10 defense (same as base walls)
-20% to enemies adjacent to city (a mirror of the siege tower)
units garrisoned in city heal an additional 5hp/turn

Austria looks fine. no comments

Aztec

Spoiler :

Eagle - yaaaaay, you saw my comment on this. it looks good to me!

Huey Teocalli - I'm glad the yields on death was scrapped from the proposal. it seemed boring. Also considering Huey Teocalli is dedicated to 2 gods, 1 of war and 1 of agriculture, it seemed weird that the original proposal didn't give any military benefit or growth boost, and focused on great works. No boosts to building yields either, which is a staple of unique wonders.
The proposed empire-wide boost to forest and jungle is both better than Iroquois' longhouse AND doesn't require anything to be built in other cities. No. Combined with the +1 food on all rivers from chinampa, you would have absurd yields off river jungle with no improvements. The Songhai just got a nerf last patch for something not even half as powerful as this.

And still no recognition that this was a temple to Huitzilopochtli and Tlaloc.

Proposed change:
Huey Teocalli - Heroic Epic replacement
3 culture (up from 1 on normal heroic epic)
+1 food from shrines
+1 culture from barracks
provides a source of fresh water for city (in recognition of Tlaloc, the rain god), allows you to build the chinampa in this city without restriction
Golden Ages permanently add +3 XP for all units trained in this city, +1 production and +2 food in city

Thanks for your feedback! I'll keep it in mind.

America: With four unique components, I would like most or all civs to get something for the early game. That would require some anachronism for some of them, but I think it's worth sacrificing some realism for gameplay. But you're right, the Trailblazer as I proposed it is still broken. Maybe it can be a settler with slightly reduced cost and ability to defend, like adan_eslavo suggested? Or we could just go for the Monitor idea; I'd be down for America getting an Industrial UU.

Arabia: I could go with the Hashemite Raider. It's in the same line as Arabia's existing UU, but since it comes three eras later, it should be fine. Late modern is kinda late for a UU; maybe it can be a Cavalry replacement instead? Or at least moved up one tech level?

Assyria: I think the chariot would still make sense as a Skirmisher replacement. I like the idea of the Lamassu gate, though I'll want to play around with it and find something fitting for it. Yield Faith when an enemy unit is killed in the city, maybe?

Aztecs: I'd prefer to keep the Huey Teocalli as a Grand Temple, since 1) that's what it is, and 2) the Aztecs need something past classical era. I'll keep your suggestions for its effects in mind though.

I'm looking at the Indonesia uniques, and maybe I can take a shot at that. My problem with Indonesia right now is they are not a maritime civ anymore, and not much in the existing suggestions fixes that. Here are my proposed additions:

Indonesia

Spoiler :

Prau - Trireme replacement (the original thread had it as 'perahu', but that is Malay. Prau is the Javanese equivalent. The Anglicized version is proa)
available at fishing (1 tech earlier)
costs 70 production (down from 90)
14 attack
6 movement (+2 movement over trireme)
ignores zone of control
reasoning: it didn't make sense to me to increase CS or make them into cargo vessels, as the original thread suggested. Proa are too small for effective cargo shipping, and they aren't really warships. The thing that makes proa interesting is that they are maneuverable and they are FAST. This form of craft holds many of the modern speed sailing records, exceeding 90 kmph, so I think any aspect of their in-game representation should come from that. At that early stage in the game you're more interested in using these boats to scout anyways.)

Kampung - Unique Improvement, built by embarked workers (does not consume work boats)
available at sailing (optics in base game)
can be built on any coastal tile adjacent to a sea resource.
cannot be built adjacent to each other
+1 food and +1 culture
+1 culture at compass
reasoning: The base mod gives adjacent sea resources 5% naval construction when worked, I'm thinking of removing that. I don't see much point in having it, and there's not much in Indonesia's kit which steers it towards naval militarism. With the elevated importance of culture in CBP, I think it's already strong enough without it.
The stilt villages and house boats of the Sama-Bajau are a shared cultural heritage of Malaysia, Philippines and Indonesia, but only 1 of those is in the game. I wanted to give Indonesia a reason to value coast again, but the yields can't be too good, since sea tiles are already good enough

The Kampung assets exist. the Prau assets do not. The best I can use as a stand-in is probably the tongiaki from the tonga mod. If anyone has any interest in building assets for this unit, message me

I like these proposals. I'm not sure if it's possible to have workers build improvements on coast though. You'd need to play around and see if you can make that work, since I haven't tried it myself.

 

[Jarula]

Honestly of all these Japan and Persia look the Most fun to play with. the Noh stage and the persian great artist stoneworks sound incredible.

I really wish there was more Culture for the European civs.

 

[pineappledan]

America: With four unique components, I would like most or all civs to get something for the early game. That would require some anachronism for some of them, but I think it's worth sacrificing some realism for gameplay. But you're right, the Trailblazer as I proposed it is still broken. Maybe it can be a settler with slightly reduced cost and ability to defend, like adan_eslavo suggested? Or we could just go for the Monitor idea; I'd be down for America getting an Industrial UU.

The American UA has its largest impact at the "discovery phase" of the early game, so I almost feel like they already HAVE a unique component for early game. If you were to replace the normal settler, or any other civilian unit, then you would have to give up the homestead, not the military UU. That's yet another misgiving I have about this unique settling idea for Uncle Sam. American culture is overtly militaristic, so it seems bizarre to sacrifice representation of their military history to give them either a third civilian/infrastructure UC or a Frankenstein civilian/military unit. I would expect this argument to crop up for a civ with a dearth of military options, but that's not the US:
unique carrier - Nimitz Class (resources already exist)
unique ironclad - Monitor (resources already exist)
unique great war infantry - Doughboy (resources already partially exist)
unique field gun - Parrott rifle (resources already exist)
unique infantry - G.I. (resources already exist, and actually the combined arms unique promotion they get sounds really cool)
unique cavalry - Rough Rider (resources already exist)
unique battleship - Connecticut Class (resources already exist)

So yeah, the idea of making a quasi- or fully-civilian unit from scratch, undermining this project's design philosophy from the word "go", and doing it for the US, a civ that gives you the absolute pick of the litter for alternatives, is strange.

Arabia: I could go with the Hashemite Raider. It's in the same line as Arabia's existing UU, but since it comes three eras later, it should be fine. Late modern is kinda late for a UU; maybe it can be a Cavalry replacement instead? Or at least moved up one tech level?

I considered cavalry, but it's a little early for the period. Cavalry in civ V is sort of Crimean War, Austro-Prussian War, etc.. It's anachronistic, but only by 60-70 years, since the Arab revolt kicked off in 1915. The timelinf for the Arab revolt puts it firmly within 1 year of the introduction of landships, and makes it a contemporary of light tanks like the Whippet. I considered moving the UU up to Combustion in my proposal, but that puts it only 1 tech behind the cavalry. It's a weird spot, Cavalry is replaced incredibly quickly in CBP, so do you make a UU with a short shelf-life, or do you move light tank up and make cavalry's shelf life even shorter than it already is?
Regardless, I'm not really worried about Arabia having a late era UU, consider that Germany's only UU currently comes a full era after this. Arabia's UCs are already so front-loaded on the tech tree, it's pretty much carte-blanche for when a late-era UC comes.
1 ancient UB
1 medieval UB
1 medieval UU

Assyria: I think the chariot would still make sense as a Skirmisher replacement. I like the idea of the Lamassu gate, though I'll want to play around with it and find something fitting for it. Yield Faith when an enemy unit is killed in the city, maybe?

Are you still planning on having the iron chariot be a ranged unit? I'm a bit opposed to the idea of it being a ranged unit, but just a little. My own cursory reading of Assyrian tactics indicates chariots were part of the military core, not scouts or skirmishers.
Alternatively, you could go for the hail-Mary and make it a war-elephant replacement that doesn't require ivory.
I tried to steer clear of faith in my own proposal because Assyria has no existing bonuses to the religion game. They already have 4 competencies: culture, science, great works and military XP. Adding faith makes them too unfocused.

Aztecs: I'd prefer to keep the Huey Teocalli as a Grand Temple, since 1) that's what it is, and 2) the Aztecs need something past classical era. I'll keep your suggestions for its effects in mind though.

I noticed you changed it to grand temple replacement in your own proposal. I think it's a good fit because the base grand temple already triggers a golden age (synergy), and it spreads the UB and UW further apart. I was preoccupied with the fact that the existing proposals for Babylon and Ethiopia both have unique grand temples as well. assuming the Campus Martius idea is abandoned (God willing, the latifundia is a better idea imo), there is no unique replacement for the Heroic epic in the game . I was trying to spread the UC love and got tunnel-vision.

Perhaps Babylon's Entemananki could be moved to be a national monument replacement? That would actually fit their GP focus better, since they have no prior faith synergies.

Re: the workers building on coastline. I havent tried the base mod with VP, but that is how the Malaysian civ currently deploys kampungs in the existing mod. Assuming everything works as intended adding the UI should require minimal effort on my part. It's the UU that worries me

 

[Blue Ghost]

Okay, you’ve convinced me. Monitor for America it is.

Were the Hashemites mounted? I couldn’t find that info. If so, replacing an armored unit with a mounted unit feels like a bigger discrepancy than being off on the era. Not all the existing UUs are contemporary with the units they replace.

The prau as proposed feels a bit on the strong side to me, compared with the quinquireme, which fills a similar role. I think you can cut the CS increase and maybe the cost reduction, and it would still be a fine UU.

 

[pineappledan]

The Hashemite rebels under Saifal are best remembered in the west by their depiction in Lawrence of Arabia. T.E. Lawrence acted as a the British emissary and military supplier. The revolt was mainly carried out as harrying sabotage and raids against the Hejaz railway. Arab fighters were based deep in the desert to avoid reprisal, supplied at wells some 100km apart. These were hit and run raids, and the distances for resupplying were too large to undertake on foot; horses and camels were necessary. Desert conditions would have meant the rudimentary tanks of the day would not have survived the campaign. As I said, if it HAD to be a cavalry replacement then it's not the end of the world. However, this was one of the few theaters of WWI, where the horse and camel were still crucial to victory.

14 is currently the base CS of the trireme, so I have not given the prau any additional base damage. In fact, I had considered making it 13 (1 less than trireme). Quiqueremes currently have a base CS of 18, are available at the same tech as Prau, and have reconnaissance. I would say the Quinquereme is currently the better unit. In fact, I would say the quinquereme is slightly broken at the moment. 18 CS on a unit at late ancient era means that unit should be able to undertake early conquest completely unsupported.

 

[doublex55]

Hi guys, I have never done any modding or coding before, how can i help?

For Assyria I like the walls UB, but they should get a later UU, so that you can produce it when u have lots of works of writing wit will feel super good as the player. They also wont have anything post classical with your proposal which is kind of lame.

 

[Blue Ghost]

The Hashemite rebels under Saifal are best remembered in the west by their depiction in Lawrence of Arabia. T.E. Lawrence acted as a the British emissary and military supplier. The revolt was mainly carried out as harrying sabotage and raids against the Hejaz railway. Arab fighters were based deep in the desert to avoid reprisal, supplied at wells some 100km apart. These were hit and run raids, and the distances for resupplying were too large to undertake on foot; horses and camels were necessary. Desert conditions would have meant the rudimentary tanks of the day would not have survived the campaign. As I said, if it HAD to be a cavalry replacement then it's not the end of the world. However, this was one of the few theaters of WWI, where the horse and camel were still crucial to victory.

14 is currently the base CS of the trireme, so I have not given the prau any additional base damage. In fact, I had considered making it 13 (1 less than trireme). Quiqueremes currently have a base CS of 18, are available at the same tech as Prau, and have reconnaissance. I would say the Quinquereme is currently the better unit. In fact, I would say the quinquereme is slightly broken at the moment. 18 CS on a unit at late ancient era means that unit should be able to undertake early conquest completely unsupported.

Ah, I thought the trireme had 12CS for some reason. Yeah, should be fine then. Maybe make it 5 movement instead of 6?

Hi guys, I have never done any modding or coding before, how can i help?

For Assyria I like the walls UB, but they should get a later UU, so that you can produce it when u have lots of works of writing wit will feel super good as the player. They also wont have anything post classical with your proposal which is kind of lame.

If you want to learn to mod, you can start with the video I linked in the OP. Maybe I’ll make a simple tutorial as well, if there’s demand for it.

I agree, it would be good gameplay-wise to get a later UC for Assyria, though that would have to be anachronistic. Do you have any proposals?

 

[Jarula]

Aztec UU eagle warrior replace knight

America Buffalo soldier replaces fusiler
Combat bonus when in neutral territory.

Assyria like Rome/ Carthage/greece/rome doesn't need late UU or UB

Now how about for Rome harpago attacks twice Combat strength 11 captures ships.

Or a UU for America Navy seals replaces special forces has amphibious, double strike,

 

[doublex55]

With 4 UC there is no reason a civ should have all 4 come within the 3rd tier of the tech tree.

 

[pineappledan]

I agree, it would be good gameplay-wise to get a later UC for Assyria, though that would have to be anachronistic. Do you have any proposals?

That is a tall order. Not only have Assyrians been stateless since the 6th century BC, but they converted to Christianity quickly and thoroughly, and have been under intense persecution for the past 1000 years by Muslims of various ethnicities. There are more Assyrians living outside the middle east than inside, their language has disappeared, so has their religion, and their cuisine, festivals, etc are more informed by a Christian Syriac identity more than they are an ethnic identity which would recall their empire. Even if we were to use some cultural artifact from their deeply Christianized modern identity, it would be at odds with the Assyrian playstyle in-game.

We would need to talk to an ethnic Assyrian if we were going to try to get ideas for anything culturally relevant post 400 BC.

With 4 UC there is no reason a civ should have all 4 come within the 3rd tier of the tech tree.

There is if that culture was almost annihilated by 600 AD. I can't imagine what I would do if I were to try to make 4UCs for the Sumerian mod I'm working on with that stipulation on tech eras

 

[FoxOfWar]

I think for the really early-loaded civs, we might have to intentionally make their uniques slightly less powerful - or as with buildings/UIs, late-blooming ones (more yields with Ren+ techs). Case-by-case basis, but I'd definitely be careful with Assyria's uniques, particular the UU. But again, might be less of a problem if more civs have a relatively early uniques, barring civs that did not exist until couple millenia later like the US.

Case in point, did a test game with the 4-unique Poland and Voi was stupendous - +1 movement/+2 CS on Spearman makes for ridiculously fast-blooming Authority start. Granted, probably not as much once we get more of these online, but something to keep an eye on. (Nonrelated sidenote: I was also giggling constantly, because 'voi' means 'butter' in Finnish... I mean, sorta appropriate really.)

(EDIT: also, no bugs with Poland in that game. Good job @adan_eslavo)