3UC/4UC for VP: Project Coordination Thread

[FoxOfWar]

@pineappledan Yeah, seems fair with the Monolithic Church - it may very well be that it out-cultures France. I'd like to ride the line between "tiny extra culture" and "might be able to ride it to culture victory", so sure, drop some of those extra yields. Ethiopia has, with the church, really powerful religion and nearly-guaranteed Sacred Sites(or their choice of reformation) anyway. Might want to change some of those culture yields to faith/gold/production, as those are slightly less-relevant in industrial+ eras..

I could also potentially volunteer for icon creation, though my art abilities are more than a slight in different directions (foxofwar.deviantart.com)But I can try if we are missing a specific icon, at least.

 

[adan_eslavo]

For the beginning you can tweak Klepht and Sachem's Council pictures I made to be even closer to civ flavor. Then there are promotion icons I mentioned earlier. Good luck.

@Blue Ghost If you want to put this animation to your unit I will provide you the code:
1. Put this on top of your lua file:

include("FLuaVector.lua")
include("InstanceManager")

2. Then you need to make Vector3 of the tile over which you want to put the text:

local vUnitPosition = PositionCalculator(pUnit:GetX(), pUnit:GetY())
(...)
function PositionCalculator(i1, i2)
    return HexToWorld(ToHexFromGrid(Vector2(i1, i2)))
end

3. And the last thing - run the event:

Events.AddPopupTextEvent(vUnitPosition, "[COLOR_RED]Bleeding for 10 DMG[ENDCOLOR]", 1.2)

This should work.


When you said "Greek Fire Promotion (-15% to adjacent enemy units)" did you mean "Greek Fire Promotion (-15% Attack Strenght (CS/RCS/both?) to adjacent enemy units)"? I don't think we need to add this type of info to this. Also Shotelai won't need it. They only add debuff which will be seen immediately after clicking the unit (f.e. 1/2 moves + icon of debuff; -15% value in predicted battle modifiers).

Scythed Chariot will get such a thing because it will be no other visible mark where did the damage come from. Arabian UU and UB also should get it.

On the other hand Aztec Eagle should have different kind of prompt: "AddNotification(NotificationType notificationType, string description, string title, int x = -1, int y = -1, PlayerID extra1 = -1, int extra2 = -1)" after getting worker.

 

[pineappledan]

I don’t think the madrasah needs a text float. The bank doesn’t have one after all. The Hashemite should have one though, definitely.

The proposed shofet will do what you have described, among other things, jarula

I don’t think the Eagle needs it, since it would be similar to the hun’s unit conversion. Having a whole new unit appear is notification enough.

I had proposed changing the -15% attack damage to an effect identical to the koa’s ‘Bleed’, so 10 damage on enemy’s turn, but in a ranged boat. I haven’t updated the original proposal post

@FoxOfWar i was planning on trying to do the icon for the tophet (Carthage UB), but maybe you want to try? I linked a photo earlier in the discussion, which I think would work really well. That would be awesome of you

 

[FoxOfWar]

I can give it a shot tomorrow, as I have a theoretically free day. Though ye be warned, my experience in this kind of thing is literally zero. Not gonna be fast, and probably not done during tomorrow. EDIT: Honestly as I give it a look it's almost as far from my usual art as it can be, but... eh, as long as you're not holding your breath...

 

[Jarula]

Both so if shophet on coast helps land units with two tiles both land and sea units within range?

If so then maybe give it all units within 2 tiles get bonus attack too. And it replaces both right?

 

[Hinin]

I've been wondering about the Arabian new UC made by Blue Ghost, and, unfortunately, it appears to me that I think both of them could be changed, for different reasons.

First, the Madrasah : a much as I like the building itself, I think the effect is quite bland, as so I've been thinking about something which could add more flavor to the Arabian civ (the Bazaar is already a useful but quite bland UB). What I've found is the Kaaba (a extremely important building for the Arabs, before and after the birth of Islam), which could be used as a UW replacement for the Grand Temple. Here are what could be the elements of the building :

Kaaba
- Available at Philosophy instead of Theology
- Can only be constructed in the Capital city
- Requires a Shrine in the city to be built
- +1 faith per citizen in the city (instead of +6 faith)
- - 25 % Religious division (same)
- When the Kaaba is finished, gain an important boost of faith (around 300 in epic speed) and triggers a Golden age (instead of only a golden age)
- +1 faith, +1 culture and +1 GAP to all Shrines and Temples
- Whenever a Faith purchase is made in the empire, gain 20 Science, scaling with era
- Trade units can be bought with faith in the city.
- All trade units you control are twice as effective at spreading religion
- +2 for each major civilization whose main religion is yours
- Contains 2 GWW slots (+5 science and +5 GAP when themed with GWW of the same civilization and era)
=> Pros : It helps Arabia be more relevant in the religion game (offering them the last faith boost they may need to obtain a GProphet), synergizes with the Bazaar and the Mosquee and still retains the most quirk of the Madrasah.
Cons : We don't have the civ5 picture type for it (although pictures of it can easily be found), contrary to the Madrasah.

The Hashemite raider :
Unfortunately, the fact that Arabia already has a UM in the skirmisher line and that Morocco also has a Cavalry replacement (it make the Berber/Bedouin archetype too much represented I think) makes the unit a little redundant, as much as I like the promotion the unit has. Why not replace it with a more ancient unit, or a modern unit whose model/picture we already have ?

What do you think ?

 

[adan_eslavo]

Hashemite Rider was moved and it is now Light Tank replacement, so it is fine.

 

[Jarula]

I LOVE THE KAABA. Really cool UW... any thoughts on my old one using the UU as a replacement general great diplomat that plops economic improvements along with a UB that basically acts synergistically for Rome...?

 

[Blue Ghost]

I’d be fine with changing the Arabian UCs, if we have some good proposals for them.

I’d prefer not to add another Grand Temple replacement. I think the madrasah is a good building to use, though I agree the mechanical implementation is a bit bland. Any suggestions on a better effect?

I had some difficulty finding a good UU for Arabia, and would be open to suggestions.

 

[De_Genius]

UM - Langskib (replaces Caravel) ; available at Physics instead of Compass ; 20 CP instead of 25 ; have the "Can move after attacking", "Medic I", and "Viking Exploration" (Embarked units starting on the same tile may also cross ocean tiles. Lost after upgrade) promotions.

Moved the healing out of promotion and replaced it with Medic I to prevent stacking.

Disregard the NL UU from the attached version, since they are not yet working, but do not interfere with the existing UCs.

Anyone try out the new Langskib, and give some feedback on the Andelsbevægelse also.

 

[pineappledan]

I agree with blue ghost. I would rather tweak the madrasah so we are happy with it than throw it out completely.

I think if we can do some sort of palette swap on the hashemite and move it to a different tech so it’s not stacked with Berber, then it might be okay. The history and playstyle of the two UUs looks pretty different.

I also like that we managed to spread the UCs as much as we did for Arabia. If we went with another option for a UU it would inevitably drop in the medieval, where Arabia already has 2 UCs. I posted some alternatives in an earlier post

 

[adan_eslavo]

Read my notes to Hacienda, Babylon and Dromon, please.

 

[pineappledan]

@adan_eslavo Cool.
My opinions:
polynesia

• Koa Should be a scout, they have 2 other ancient era units, making it a scout would be their only classical unit. Scout is also on a good tech line for Polynesia, who rushes the the top tech lines anyways, and the unit would be around longer.

Babylon

• Agreed, kibitum needs help. Maybe take a page from the original mod, but instead of 10% vs ranged every 2 levels, it could be +10% attack for every 2 levels. Could still call it legacy, because they would be true legacy units.
• WRT the entemenanki, I guess the capital thing isn’t strictly necessary, just a flavour thing. The original temple was in Babylon

Byzantine

• If the dromon needs more, is it possible to also make Adjacent units unable to heal? Like, make the enemy ship heal -15, like a reverse medic promotion? Or it could be tied to the Greek fire promotion, and disable fortifying?

Spain

• If 2 tiles from city can’t be coded, maybe raise base gold by 1 (3f/1p/2g) and make adjacency to cities give +2 prod and +1 gold instead of +2p/2g? Total next to city would be the same, but 2 tiles and 3 tiles would be identical.

 

[FoxOfWar]

For Kibitum, I still think some strong "homeland/capital guardian" bonus would be the way to go, along with possibly some bonus based on levels. At least if you're thinking about Kibitum the way I am: a unit that you want to survive('legacy'), and that is strong when defending your science progress. Think Mehal Sefari but almost entirely on different end of the tech tree, with possibility to have one powerful defender survive for later?

For Dromon, that 'medic negation' sounds rather useless, as ships with medic or supply are really rare that early (unless you're facing Carthage, I suppose). Does any other ship have splash damage promotions?

 

[pineappledan]

Splash damage would be good. I was thinking it would be an ultra-aggressive ship, since ships can only heal in their own borders. Cataphracts are also very aggressive UCs.

I like the capital guardian bonus idea, so why not both?

 

[adan_eslavo]

Descriptions updated. (Shotelai, Koa, Hacienda, Babylon and Byzantine)

 

[Hinin]

I posted some alternatives in an earlier post

It makes me think that we should definitely use the picture of the Heka-Khasut for the Iron Chariot. It looks really cool.

Besides, I'm thinking that, unfortunately, there is a problem in the Skirmisher line : I have mixed feelings about the UM created so far in this line, and so I decided to make a document summing up all the attributes of all the skirmisher UM to provoke some brainstorming. The link is below.

 

[FoxOfWar]

Koa and Fale Tel'e look like they are in the right-ish place now. Likewise, Byzantium and Babylon seems about right now, at least in theory. Playtesting will tell.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Scythed chariot has no accuracy I in my code, but only 3 following promotions. Does he need buff to values? Maybe I could lower defense stat and attack a bit and buff Scythe from 5 to 8 f.e.? Pancerny is rather defensive unit with historical flavor added. It wasnt mobile but instead it used wide variety of weapons. Another woodsman instead of cober I? Thats what I can tell about UUs Ive created.

Desert Raider can stay as an additional flavor, but we need to add something really helpful for him, buff him a little.

Horse Archer seems to be weak comparing to other units.

If we add bleed effect to too many units it will be really boring ability. We should leave it for Koa and Dromon.

Naga-Malla losts all of its Unique Abilities after upgrade. Maybe we could change this? Is there any unit (from all UUs) that has similar problems?

Iron chariot could be moved to horseman line as @pineappledan suggested. It would not be then compared to Scythed Chariot too much (one of them has Rough Terrain Penalty). It could loose Acc I in favor to other maybe better ability.

 

[Hinin]

Scythed chariot has no accuracy I in my code, but only 3 following promotions. Does he need buff to values? Maybe I could lower defense stat and attack a bit and buff Scythe from 5 to 8 f.e.?

The Celtic Scythed chariot combined the mobility of chariots (and we know Celts loved chariots) and the power of infantry (since the warriors on it can easily get on it and get down, contrary to a cavalry unit, where it takes some precious time. Maybe we could lower the defense stat, take away the "Accuracy I" promotion buff scythe a bit and make the unit a bit more strong against melee unit (with a promotion that could stay on the long run, like "Sleapsteam"), so that its counter becomes archer units and other skirmishers.

Here is the picture I used to make the table for this unit. You can see I wasn't mistaken (I'm using the last version of your mod).

Spoiler Picture :

Pancerny is rather defensive unit with historical flavor added. It wasnt mobile but instead it used wide variety of weapons. Another woodsman instead of cober I?

Maybe lowering its defense by 2 and instead giving it the possibility to benefit from terrain defense and fortify (so it would become a skirmisher capable of becoming a sturdy frontliner in case of needs, between a Horse archer and a Naga-Malla).

Desert Raider can stay as an additional flavor, but we need to add something really helpful for him, buff him a little.

The fact that the Hashemite raider will be a mounted unit at a time where there begins to be anti-armor units and not so much anti-mounted ones can be an interesting buff. Essentially, the unit is a Cavalry on steroids with bonus to pillaging at a time where there lots and lots of improvements to pillage (adding a "no cost to pillage" could be a good thing), so it punishes civs overflowing with improvements.

Horse Archer seems to be weak comparing to other units.

I agree. We could maybe find something (like lowered cost) to make it more interesting.

If we add bleed effect to too many units it will be really boring ability. We should leave it for Koa and Dromon.

I also agree. It was just to show that we can find interesting concepts for these units.

Naga-Malla losts all of its Unique Abilities after upgrade. Maybe we could change this? Is there any unit (from all UUs) that has similar problems?

I don't really know what promotion could be kept after upgrade for this unit (feared elephant is really tied to specific units). Sorry for not giving any idea here, but I'm quite in a hurry.

Iron chariot could be moved to horseman line as @pineappledan suggested. It would not be then compared to Scythed Chariot too much (one of them has Rough Terrain Penalty). It could loose Acc I in favor to other maybe better ability.

I agree to the idea once again.

Have a good day !