(4-NS) Amphitheater Split (resubmission)

[N.Core]

Does anyone believe that having to choose between buildings could be a solution ? In the enlightenment mod (AFAIK), there is two mutually-exclusive buildings. Maybe we could extend on it ?

This is one of my ideas, making each cultural building mutually exclusive. I'm planning to experiment with this in my future mod.

-- Culture line:
    -- Note: 2 GW slots on Amphitheater are removed, now Guilds have 2 GW slots.
    -- Writing line (Focused on Writer and Culture):
        -- Monument -> Amphitheater -> Archive (New, Ren) -> News Publisher (New, Mod)
    -- Art line (Focused on Artist and Golden Age Points):
        -- Monument -> Amphitheater -> Gallery (Ren) -> Museum (Mod)
    -- Music line (Focused on Musician and Tourism):
        -- Monument -> Amphitheater -> Opera House (Ren) -> Broadcast Tower

By going this way, there's no additional building required to build. Instead, a city has to choose between the three building lines.
Do you want to counter Tourism? You go Writing hard.
Want more Tourism? Focus on Music.
More Golden Age? You can go with Art.

The problem is with the AI, it's hard to make the AI choose between the three lines.
There's also a problem with a CS quest for constructing buildings. A CS can ask to construct one of the mutually exclusive buildings for the quest, essentially forcing you to build it to finish the quest, preventing you to choose the other building line.

 

[Anarcomu]

The problem is with the AI, it's hard to make the AI choose between the three lines.
There's also a problem with a CS quest for constructing buildings. A CS can ask to construct one of the mutually exclusive buildings for the quest, essentially forcing you to build it to finish the quest, preventing you to choose the other building line.

Not sure about this, but adding weight based on victory could do the trick ?
Also I believe you could exclude some buildings from quests, this would work if it is possible.

 

[N.Core]

Also I believe you could exclude some buildings from quests, this would work if it is possible.

Probably require DLL work to exclude any building that has MutuallyExclusiveGroup, as it currently happens to EEVP's Salon and Academy buildings.

 

[Stalker0]

should siam's UB really be changed here? The issue is that the archive is specifically for CV play, but Siam is much more of a DV play (not saying they can't do CV they just don't have any real proclivity there).
So we are just requiring Siam to build an extra build to get their benefits, so that's a nerf, is that really needed?

 

[pineappledan]

The Wat is currently on an even more niche building, so not much changed there.

The Archive is a much better thematic and mechanical fit for a unique wat to replace. Wats contain relics and archival material, libraries for the use of the monks, etc. the 2 GW slots are a more widely useful bonus than espionage reduction, which has no thematic or historic link to a Wat. Wats did not perform any law enforcement or counterespionage functions. Also, moving the unlock to something that is 1 tech earlier rather than 2 techs is an improvement, imo.

 

[Stalker0]

The Wat is currently on an even more niche building, so not much changed there.

it’s on the constabulary, which is an unhappiness reducer and +3 science with statecraft (that Siam normally takes).

I agree constabulary is not normally a high priority building outside the capital, but it does get built.

The new archive is slated specifically as a “CV only building”, aka if you don’t care about tourism, don’t build it. Not quite the same thing.

 

[zeofig]

I disagree that wat/constabulary is bad. Turning a niche building into a good and earlier building is fun and different. It also synergises with that statecraft policy which Siam will often take, which is fun.

I also don't buy these arbitrary "historical" justifications. Wats could conceivably have counterespionage function since it would be difficult for outsiders to infiltrate the specific and opaque buddhist bureaucratic structure. The constabulary appears to be some kind of generic local police department (in civ 5), which is pretty ahistorical to begin with as in many societies that function was performed by the military or otherwise. It's conceivable that monks and their servants could serve such a role in the local community. However I also think that everything I just said is rather tangential and in no way a reasonable justification for gameplay changes.

 

[spinx_911]

I also get the impression that sometimes people are trying to shoehorn in historical authenticity into a glorified board game, and it fails to mesh well. Not to say Civ is not immersive, however one must admit that there are better candidates for historical accuracy.

 

[Recursive]

Proposal failed due to lack of sponsorship.