(5-CP) Rebalance Ancient Ruins and Disallow Non-Recon Units Picking Them Up

[tsmith7163]

I think the science ruin could be better than free tech - as you can now better achieve what you want to research, I mean it was nice getting mining but sometimes it just didn't matter except for not having to spend to get-- the science ruin gets you to where you want to go faster if you are trying to get somewhere-

However I think not having your warrior be able to pick up ruin could be just be annoying from a play mechanic perspective - usually I send my pathfinder one way and my warrior the other way -- and it seems like if my warrior finds a ruin and my PF is a ways away _ i would have to come back and get the ruin which would generally be annoying and reduce the amount of early game overall scouting and finding ruins since I'm most likely coming back over ground that was already scouted.

 

[pineappledan]

Thinking more about this, I like it more and more.

Warriors hunt for barbs or defend your land, pathfinders explore the ruins and reveal the map. Clean. Also it gives a clear reason for warriors to stay close to home and patrol your borders without feeling the opportunity cost of maybe snagging 1-2 ruins if you were willing to risk leaving your capital undefended.

I also like how this controls the (in my opinion) unfair advantages to ruins pickup powers that civs with movement bonuses get (eg Inca, Songhai, iroquois, Aztec). The way these civs get to basically use their starting warrior as an early 2nd scout always felt a bit cheap to me.

 

[axatin]

@azum4roll Will you also implement the changes to the AI?

AI may need to be adjusted to not go for ruins with non-recon units.

 

[tsmith7163]

Thinking more about this, I like it more and more.

Warriors hunt for barbs or defend your land, pathfinders explore the ruins and reveal the map. Clean. Also it gives a clear reason for warriors to stay close to home and patrol your borders without feeling the opportunity cost of maybe snagging 1-2 ruins if you were willing to risk leaving your capital undefended.

I also like how this controls the (in my opinion) unfair advantages to ruins pickup powers that civs with movement bonuses get (eg Inca, Songhai, iroquois, Aztec). The way these civs get to basically use their starting warrior as an early 2nd scout always felt a bit cheap to me.

I see your point but with normal civs your warrior is not going to have anything to do for 15-25 turns

 

[azum4roll]

@azum4roll Will you also implement the changes to the AI?

I've scanned through the code, and I think I can do it.

 

[azum4roll]

I see your point but with normal civs your warrior is not going to have anything to do for 15-25 turns

They should defend your land from barbs.

 

[Stalker0]

I see your point but with normal civs your warrior is not going to have anything to do for 15-25 turns

My warrior is normally picking ad the first Barb camp by this point

 

[stii]

I mean nothing is stopping your warrior scouting. You still want to know what the land around you is

 

[Stalker0]

Proposal was combined with other counterproposals for master voting thread.

 

[tsmith7163]

I mean nothing is stopping your warrior scouting. You still want to know what the land around you is

I agree with this perspective but that is what i'm saying- I defintely will scout with my warrior because there is nothing else to do and then I will find a ruin with my warrior while my scout is in the opposite direction-- so I either move my scout to where my warrior is - which is probably what I would do because ruins are so valuable early - or just fortify my warrior on the ruin and either produce another scout (PF) or depending on map and build order have my first PF eventually come and get the ruin - I just think this will be annoying -

I seem to remember something like this in vanilla or maybe one of the older VOX versions and just did not like it.

My warrior is normally picking ad the first Barb camp by this point

Yeah but one warrior against barb camp can be tough- and if you are going authority you would want to wait anyways.

They should defend your land from barbs.

I thought there was a rule where barbs could not come in you land in the first 15 turns? Is this just a myth


From an immersion/roleplay or thematic perspective it also does not make sense to me - are ancient warriors and ancient recon units that different where if the warrior comes across ancient ruins they wouldn't notice. maybe later game the sophistication of the scout would increase but early on I just don't see it-

I do bring my warrior back to defend or seek out barbs after that initial 15-20 turns and that is what I like as you have to weigh the pros and cons yourself - do you keeping scouting with your warrior risking lost yields or worse from the barbs. I've certainly gone too far and regretted it - especially with the newly implemented barbs spawns I think most people do use the 1st warrior to defend or you risk losing more yields than you would gain from ruins plus the warrior is a poor scouts anyways because of terrain so usually they can't go too far - so just I don't understand the reasoning for this change IMO it will limit scouting and ruins but in an annoying way.

I do like the proposal - but not this part of it.