52 shades of Sid - a story of deities (closed)

[Pedro78]

Yeah that Saladin map had a delicious start indeed . You noticed that the obviously WB'd start wasn't the right screenshot, right?

 

[unas876]

I remember I got baited by that too and was like what the hell until I finished reading the whole post.

 

[SittinDown]

Going to start playing this shortly.

First thoughts: I haven't played J. much before. (I usually do random leaders to learn how to play all the traits). Expansive and Imperialistic is interesting. Cheaper workers and Settlers are a neat combo. Mining is a nice starting tech, but based on the initial map, fishing is not helpful, except as cheaper pottery.

Land thoughts: Like that we have corn and ivory. River is nice, and lots of PH options for 12 T worker. ...but the warrior is in an poor spot to help with T-0 scouting, and I'm not sure where to settle. Both SE, SW, and NW look possible. I like settling ivory, and it's a T-0 settle with a 2 hammer center. ...but it's off the river, and I think I should keep the gold in the BFC. I think I get myself in trouble with 0-food gold. I'm not sure when to work it, but with the corn and FP's, should be plenty of surplus food.

I guess SW it is. Will send the warrior SE first, to make sure there isn't something good in sight of the SE PH.

 

[SittinDown]

Spoiler Turns 0-11 :

T-0
* Warrior 1 - SE, reveals a bunch of junk (2 plains, and a PH), so SW settle it is.
* Move settler SW. Reveals Wheat nearby, and jungle pigs 3 S.

T-1
* We're on a pangea, and there's some Jungle 3 S of the capital, so we're in the middle top somewhere. Likely to get crowded fast. Probably should scout along the river first, but I suspect I'll hit a bunch of jungle quickly.

T-5
* Scouted from 9 PM to 12 PM, met Mao. Found some really good spots nearby. Committed my research to Agri - improving corn seems good, but BW could be interesting here. Found the ocean and tundra, so think that we're in the 11-1 AM position of the pangea.
* Will have to fogbust north and south, but east and west are probably going to be lower priority because the AI's will help.

T-11
* Finished up Agri, and the worker on the same turn. Warrior moves in a bit from scouting to avoid a flat-land battle with a lion.
* Met a bunch of the AI's. Confirmed that Mao is about 10 W. Sury, Mao, Victoria, and Ragnar. I'll need to read up on them, I know Ragnar is pretty warlike, but I'm not sure about the rest. None of them are big zealots, like Izzy. Decide to put EP on Victoria, though considered Khmer.
* Noticed water to the East, so possibly in the 2 AM position, and not due-North. Should mean that settling West and South is better for land-grabbing, and should be preferred, all else equal.
* Decide to tech BW next. Chopping and whipping are my friend, and everything else can wait.

 

[Pedro78]

Thanks for playing!

I actually think that the starting warrior was in a great position for scouting, because the only settler move that would keep the gold in BFC involved moving West -- could check if we weren't moving away from anything useful.

Spoiler the AIs :

All of these can plot at pleased. Ragnar is a psycho, Sury is quite dangerous, Mao is pretty standard and Vicky is relatively peaceful. Not sure if you looked at the T0 demographics, but they did also show that Hammy is in the game -- he has a high unitprob but high peaceweight and cannot plot at pleased.

That's an advantageous peaceweight mix, as Vicky&Hammy are high peaceweight while Rags, Mao and Sury are low peaceweights.

 

[SittinDown]

Played until T-60

Spoiler to turn 60 :

• Chopped out settlers around Lisbon. Founded cities to grab strategic resources and food, and land.
• Ragnar DOW'ed Babylon.
• HA's seem a weak here.... Elepults seem far away.... think Writing -> Mason -> Math -> Cons -> HBR is a good path? Had started HBR, but thinking HA's won't work on China.... but it might work on Ragnar if his army is away fighting Babylon.
• Should I grab the land between me and Ragnar to the West?
• I normally don't mine PH - but Imperialistic & 2x grain make it ok.
• gold mine helps commerce, any thoughts on whether I should keep farming everything, or build up cottages around the capital?

 

[Pedro78]

@SittinDown

Spoiler :

Ragnar being at war with Hammurabi is a very good thing -- as he has Bowmen, the Vikings won't make any progress for a very long time so the war will probably drag on for dozens of turns. That's why...

HA's seem a weak here

I disagree with that: with HAs you can quickly grab a few cities from Hammurabi while most of his units are fighting the Vikings -- HAs have no penalty against Bowmen.
If you don't feel confident with HAs, one can't really go wrong with Elepults either, with the advantage of being able to choose the target.

Should I grab the land between me and Ragnar to the West?

No. There's nothing there and you risk making yourself a landtarget to Ragnar, which is a bad thing, better focus on getting your military tech ASAP.

I normally don't mine PH - but Imperialistic & 2x grain make it ok.

Yup good thinking. But PH mines can be very useful even without an imperialistic leader! You might have mined one too many though.

gold mine helps commerce, any thoughts on whether I should keep farming everything, or build up cottages around the capital?

No. You have enough food surplus here with two farms+FPs. Better build river cottages in capital now -- you don't have Writing yet, your main bottleneck is commerce here.

Oh and don't forget to scout out the AIs before war, that's among the most important things to do!

Anyways, your position looks promising. I'll try and play to ~1AD tonight.

Edit - played to T93, will play to 1AD tomorrow and write-up. Lots of early warfare means very slow play for me.

 

[Pedro78]

Update. Not sure where this will end because there's a 30 screenshot limit.

Spoiler T92 :

Decided to go HBR.

T64.

Mao starts plotting. His worst enemy is Victoria, but I’m much closer than her (not a landtarget though). Going for horse archers anyway so idrc

T65.

Chinese units moving around. Thought he was going for the barb city, but now not sure what he’s up to.



T66.

The last guy meets me.



And he has Alpha – guarantees quick Alpha soon after HBR. Happy times ahead.



T68.

I get a Buddhism spread in Guimares – very good as it means the pigs will be online in 11T.



Hammy starts plotting – some major action is coming up.

T69.



Both Sury and Vicky look like good targets for an HA rush – their main cities are all on flatland and they have really good land.

T71.

HBR. 2T to Archery. Only Guimares will get Stables. In this game I’ll try to go HA-Elephants-Trebs and stay at war until the end, gotta see how efficient it is compared to simply waiting for Cuirs.

T75.



Can’t trade for Alpha yet but I need IW right now to improve the pigs. Iron is revealed 3W of Lisbon. Next turn I trade for Alpha with Mao for Myst+HBR. The Vikings started plotting around T76 aswell.

T78.

GS born in Lisbon. Builds an Academy. Vicky completes the Mids in London. One more reason to attack her!




And London only has one Archer!!! But I don’t have enough troops yet to attack her.

T79.



I take this deal while I can. I also trade res with Hammy – Happiness will be much needed.



T80.

Another Happy trade.



See my workers building this road?



This way I move in on T81 (could only have send one worker smh), declare on T82 with 8HAs+1 chariot, my units get teleported on the PH 2SW of Hastings and I can take London on T84. Then Vicky has no iron anymore and she’s toast. If she builds a few more units in London I’ll wait a few more turns.



T81.

Only 2 units in London!!!



I have to delay one HA’s movement because of a stupid barb Archer near Guimares.



Waiting for Maths trade, building a few mines to ease down on the whipping – if I plan to war for the whole game I also have to monitor whip anger.

T82.

DoW.



She just built another unit in London, so there probably won’t be one more next turn. I put a warrior up for bait (almost always works). There’s a few units in Hastings, but they’re guarding a Settler so most of them won’t move. The 5XP HAs are upgraded to shock in case she strikes first.

Concerning bribes, only Hammurabi and AC like her, but Hammy is already plotting and AC doesn’t bribe at pleased.

And in case Mao is plotting on me, I will see his SoD approaching my borders because our cities are quite far away and I’ll have time to build some Archers/ move some HAs

Maths trade apparently won’t happen, so I set slider to 100%.

T83.



Lost 1 HA IBT, but the spear is now very weak. Attacking at 8 vs 5, but chariot will be able to fight an Axeman.

London falls. Not sure what my odds were but I’d say ~90%. Didn’t get very bad rolls nor very good ones. Still, was rather unlucky that she reinforced it so fast in only two turns. But was very lucky that she built the mids lol.



She does not have too many units in Hastings, and no Spears. Now she’ll fall very quickly.



T84.

Hammy DoWs Ragnar.



Only 4 defenders in Hastings. I move 2 HAs out of London and get ready to take it next turn. If she reinforces it I’ll have to wait. HA kills a chariot & GG born in Lisbon.

T85.

That doesn't look too bad:



Most of these units don’t have a fortify bonus, I have shock-HAs and there’s no spears.



I take it with 3 losses. I don’t move my GG in, just in case she retakes it on the next turn (very possible but no big deal and, hey, that’s more conquest gold for me!)

Having 6 cities gives A LOT of production for this stage of the game – I barely even chopped yet & HAs are coming in very steadily.

T86.

She didn’t take anything back, but it was close!



This allows me to do some cleanup.



And I lose at 97%... fair or unfair, idk but right now I hate the RNG. She’ll pay for that. And right after that I lose an 85% fight against a chariot… how can you do that to me lol. I shouldn’t have captured the Mids, karma strikes back. At least I won the next 92% fight… But as a result she won’t make peace.

Lisbon is now unhappy, so I revolt to Rep.

Sury declares on Ragnar (bribed by Hammy).

T88.

I finally have a super medic.



I send a brave HA to check whether I shall move my troops next to York next turn.



Answer is yes! Even if she builds another Archer I’ll most likely be able to take it as I’ll have 8 healthy HAs, several of which are lv3.

T89.

And… she is stupid enough to move the spear out of the city.



I make this deal.



60 gold is useful & most people have HBR already.

T90.




Lost 3 73%, 81% & 85% fights in a row. Now I don’t feel guilty at all for getting lucky with the Mids lol. She’s teching Feudalism but I still have 10 turns so I remain at war. I take a ceasefire. I don’t really care about DoW on friend penalties as only Hammy & Rome like her, and I’m about to kill Hammy.

Another general is born. This one will be settled in Lisbon for 5XP catapults.

 

[Pedro78]

Spoiler T108 :

T93.




T94.

Now everyone but Ragnar has Currency, so I put one turn in it to trade Construction for it next turn.

I move 11 HAs near Nottingham, not sure what’s in there but it should be enough.



T95.

I make this deal.



Nottingham isn’t lightly defended...



...but falls to the numbers.



Rome starts plotting? Or it did earlier, didn’t pay attention.

T96.

While I’m wrapping up the Vicky war to the south, I start scouting out Hammy (still at war with Rags so should be an easy pick)



T97.

Priesthood. Canterburry falls.



Peace.



Research set to Feudalism. Plan is to vassal Hammy and keep rolling.



Bpt is half-decent even though I keep whipping my cities because of great capital and English cities coming online. Conquest gold keeps research going (doing +27gpt @0% atm)

Mao still doesn’t have PH, so I get the cash. Still monitoring this guy closely as idk who he's plotting on (probably me), but he's not doing anything yet.



T98.

Borsippa is weakly guarded so I decide to move in next turn.



T99.

Dow on Hammurabi.



T100.

I capture Borsippa with a few unlucky rolls (one catapult was promoted to Accuracy, I used two to bombard and suicided the third one). He’s got a stack of mounted units (I was trading him horses for many turns mainly for this purpose – it’s much better for me if he builds HAs/Chariots than metal units.).



Another GG is born. I don’t have much to do with this guy so I settle him in Lisbon – will eventually give me CR3 trebs and for now it’s 5.25 beakers per turn aswell because of Rep.

I whip a War Elephant in York just in case he gets the idea of sending his mounted units to take it.

T102.

I send this little stack towards Akkad.



Will be followed by 7 healthy HAs next turn. It has 60% cultural defense but no walls.




Dur-K is on a hill & with walls, but has only 3 units. 9 HAs should do it.

T103.

Lol.



I send one WE to raze that barb city, mostly because I want to chop the forests next to it, and conquest gold is useful.



T104.



Ragnar & Sury make peace.

T105.

Hammy gets Feudalism.

Akkad is still (fairly) badly defended so I bombard with the Accuracy cat & suicide the other one, then send in all the units. I take it with 3 losses. Not sure I’ve ever been on top of the scoreboard this early in a deity game.




This city has a shirne, so I’ll keep it. Hammy won’t cap yet, and I need some units to kill Victoria on T108 (DoW T107) before she gets the idea of peacevassaling to AC (who now has Feudalism). Maybe killing her will make Hammurabi cap though as it will bump up the average world power rating.

After doing all that thinking, I notice a lonely Axeman and take him out at 80% odds.



Aaaand…



Lolz. I get capitulation+calendar from him. I gift him back Dur-K and Borsippa. I keep Akkad because of the Shrine. I steer him to MC and convert to Hinduism. Only AI in buddhism now is Ragnar and I have nothing to fear from this guy atm.

I immediately send 2 HAs to scout out AC because he’s my next target.

I also build 2 spies and put my EPs on Hammy now that I have his holy city – I’ll steal MC and possibly Machinery from this guy.

T107.

I DoW Vicky and grab 4 workers.



T108.



England sees the light. I take a break. (The city is burned ofc)

Not sure how early this can be won from current position.

Spoiler :

I think by simply taking out Vicky & teching for cuirs it would have been ~T170 conquest. Is it possible to wrap this up before T160/1000AD? Would be nice..

Edit - btw kills/losses ratio is 61/29 right now. Can remove 3-4 barb archers from the kill count. HA wars are fast but costly.

 

[Lain]

Great game and report. How do you feel about that academy vs. Philo bulb for trading?

 

[Pedro78]

Thanks. What trading? Game ends at Engineering, and I'll have to self-tech that anyway. With this kind of capital it was 100% Academy. If the capital wasn't as good or if I had known that I'd get the Mids early then I'd probably have settled the GS.

If the plan was take out one AI -> tech to Cuirs then I would most likely have bulbed Philo.

 

[Pedro78]

T129, 350AD Conquest victory.

Spoiler screenie :

Is it possible to wrap this up before T160/1000AD? Would be nice..

That prediction was kind of lame -- I'll be better at setting goals next time lol

Will write-up tomorrow. I guess that settles the early war vs wait for cuirs debate lol.

I'll probably post a new map sometime soon, but I'll still be following SittinDown's game with interest

 

[SittinDown]

I'll probably post a new map sometime soon, but I'll still be following SittinDown's game with interest

Got roped into GM'ing an RPG tonight, so I wont' be pushing it forward until tomorrow

 

[gaash2]

T129, 350AD Conquest victory.

Spoiler screenie :

That prediction was kind of lame -- I'll be better at setting goals next time lol

Will write-up tomorrow. I guess that settles the early war vs wait for cuirs debate lol.

I'll probably post a new map sometime soon, but I'll still be following SittinDown's game with interest

Impressive game! I seem to recall you disagreeing with me several months ago that early wars are good

 

[gaash2]

btw isn't that a record win date by a large margin?

 

[Pedro78]

@SittinDown
Take all the time you want, there's no hurry. Playing slowly is usually more rewarding.

@gaash2 thanks! IIRC I've never said that early wars were bad, just that in most cases you could safely go for cuirs without any AI really bothering you (which I still think is true). And not all maps allow for that kind of play -- usually at some point you have to sit back and tech, here was an exception because the start was so good that I got a huge snowball effect.

btw isn't that a record win date by a large margin?

I don't think that's such a good game by HoF standards. On a HoF map with a double-gold start and handpicked opponents it's possible to win in the BCs (probably even by T100 on a really good map).

 

[SittinDown]

I don't think that's such a good game by HoF standards. On a HoF map with a double-gold start and handpicked opponents it's possible to win in the BCs (probably even by T100 on a really good map).

Looks like there might be some wiggle room in the Deity HOF Conquest area.

Tiny Quick: 600 BC
Small Quick: 1730 AD
Standard Quick: 1510 AD

Small Norma: 425 AD
Standard Normal: 1010 AD
Large Normal: 1600 AD
Huge Normal: 1140 AD

Marathon looks pretty picked over though. Nothing before 1200 BC.

 

[gaash2]

@Pedro78 .. Yep, I was going by this when I thought it was a great game even for HoF standards. I don't really play for score and play way too quickly (up to 1000 AD in 40min-1hr, though I play w/no barbs which speeds the game up a lot) to have really strong games, so I have no actual context myself of what is a good or bad game, only know that I don't think I can even beat Deity w/barbs how I play, let alone by 375 AD!

Looks like there might be some wiggle room in the Deity HOF Conquest area.

Tiny Quick: 600 BC
Small Quick: 1730 AD
Standard Quick: 1510 AD

Small Norma: 425 AD
Standard Normal: 1010 AD
Large Normal: 1600 AD
Huge Normal: 1140 AD

Marathon looks pretty picked over though. Nothing before 1200 BC.

 

[Pedro78]

Yeah I know there are many "weak" spots in the HoF where many people can potentially grab a #1 spot, but I simply prefer to play random maps. Because in these you actually play the game and accept getting lucky or unlucky. Random maps force you to adapt to what you're given and that allows you to explore a variety of playstyles. In a HoF game, you cherry-pick the start & the AIs, then if you don't get the right trades, or if AI cities are on hills you just scrap the game and start a new one, because otherwise you wouldn't get a result that's as close to perfect as possible. I'm not criticizing HoF players -- it's a fair competition, but for now it's just not my cup of tea. Maybe I'll get to it someday, but for now I have more fun, and I do progress more as a player when playing random maps.

up to 1000 AD in 40min-1hr

I don't think I can beat Deity either when playing that fast.. might be fun to give it a try though

Marathon looks pretty picked over though. Nothing before 1200 BC

Winning conquest pre-1200BC (T230) on Marathon/Standard/Pangaea is actually pretty straightforward with the right settings -- a much quicker and easier game than 1AD on normal speed.

 

[gaash2]

I'm with you on random maps. I used to only play the good fin leaders and good starts, now I kind of enjoy seeing if I can pull it off with crappy leaders and crappy starts.

Haha yep, wish I had more time and patience to jump to Deity like the rest of you guys, but I don't think it's gonna happen without more dedication.