52 shades of Sid - a story of deities (closed)

[Pedro78]

1 AD right now.. pretty close to the 500 bpt I expected -

Spoiler :

Will probably tech Compass now and hopefully trade for the last part of Machinery (Pacal doesn't have it yet). ~500g from the Parthenon should come about anytime now.

Will play to T150 and then write-up

 

[Lain]

@ minimalistic playstyle

Spoiler :

Yeah you are probably right. Here we have enough rivers to support a more expansive playstyle. Without the failgold from Parthenon it might be a bit harder? On my infamous Mao map though I don't know, I am stuck on 3-4 cities for a long time there, otherwise I just go broke.

Instant cottages on a river pay back quickly, even without food. At least I learned that.

@ my game

Spoiler :

Because of my settling I needed fogbusters in the south and that delayed securing the west. Oasis + FP was too risky with 2+ barb archers roaming around. With map knowledge... so much available land could mean early barb axemen + spearmen. Scary stuff. Fish+Horse was safe . Also I was afraid Pacal would settle it with early Galleys? They like doing that

I would probably restart. But it feels boring to copy the Aesthetics playstyle~ Hmm... maybe a straight Astro push to compare. I have to re-read, but I think Writing came kind of late for you? So good job on securing GL.

I wonder how skipping the marble/island would work out. No early Sailing etc.

@ your game 1 AD

Spoiler :

Did you build an academy?

Traded for Monarchy?

Basra settle is something I would probably delay for a long time, like 300 AD maybe. I always thought 6 is like the magic city number in "isolation"

 

[Pedro78]

I've played a few openings on that Mao map. I already know the map so I can't find the heart to play it, but if you have a similar one (could be the next game for the Workshop) I'd be glad to play it

Spoiler @ strategies & our games :

You can try a straight Astro push but I think it's just wrong when you have marble. If you skip everything you might get ~T130 Astro but then what? No failgold, no GPP, very low bpt, nothing that will get you to Steel early enough. It would just make the game much harder than it already is.

Writing came really late in my game but there was no need for it - forests were saved for GLib and there was no food to whip, so getting up libraries was very hard early anyway.

And yeah the initial inland move was actually pretty important when thinking back...

@my game -

An Academy? Saladin doesn't know that word, especially when his capital has 20 base commerce and needs to run scientists

Yup traded for monarchy T99.

One picture about Basra settle

Spoiler :

(No maths, was 3 of my 4 workers chopping lol). Plus it adds a few river tiles and has a decent commerce potential. Will expand to 11 cities before Cannons, but the next 4 cities would indeed only drag me down here. Only issue is I had to build a Trireme (hate to do that)

 

[Pedro78]

Okay guys I think I need a break. Maybe I'll try to meditate or whatever, will write-up a little bit later this week. Meanwhile y'all can discuss what's good and what's not so good in this picture

Spoiler :

 

[Lain]

Hmm, this must be a trick question

Spoiler :

Because I only see positives. More free tech you will get in the capitulation deal after your successful 1100 AD-Tank-Rush

 

[Pedro78]

Yeah that's right but..

Spoiler :

There's one reason why I don't like to break out with tanks in isolation - what if I don't have oil? Tech to Robotics and transport Mechanized Infantries in Galleons? Not that hot imo. On a positive note it wouldn't divert me too much off my usual tech path as I always go for Robotics, and on this map I could get a damn early Space Elevator (my favorite wonder )

 

[Pedro78]

Long-overdue update to turn 150 (800AD). Pretty eventful turnset. First part to 600 AD.

Spoiler write-up to turn 150 (1/2) :

• Turn 103 - Literature. Pacal already has it, which means no maths trade for me and GLib + Parthenon will be chopped with 20h forests
• Turn 104 - I get a Judaism spread in Damascus. Why not Hinduism? Why in the only city (except Mecca) where I don't need it? That's okay.
• On turn 106 Pacal gets Music. He got Literature on T103.. That's scary.
• Turn 107 screenie - health is a big issue but I can't get anything else from Pacal right now:

Spoiler happy but unhealthy :

• On turn 110 Basra is founded. I'm now done with expansion for quite a while. By the way the northwestern land is quite good for later :

Spoiler t110 screenies :

• On turn 111 Pacal gets CoL (Confu founded a while ago already). Monitoring the little big techer very closely to see if I can squeeze out some trades
• The Great Library is completed on turn 112
• On turn 115 (1 AD) I reach Metal Casting and trade it to Pacal for IW+120. Here's a shot at my empire @1AD -- not quite the 500 bpt I anticipated:

Spoiler find the missing 366 bpt :

• On turn 121 I have Compass on Pacal. He has Machinery but won't trade it yet
• I delay the National Epic to turn 123 instead of 121 in order to get my first GS in Medina instead of Mecca:

Spoiler the GS thingy :

A GS is scheduled in Medina on turn 123. Completing the National Epic on this turn would yield me a GS in Mecca next turn. There are two reasons for that. The first reason is that hammers are counted before GPP (this kinda confirms what I assumed in your thread a few weeks ago, @sampsa ), so Mecca's GPP would get the boost from NE on this turn, which leads to an instant GS. The second reason is that when two cities reach the same GPP threshold on the same turn, the GP will be born in the city that was first founded/captured. Btw @Lain in a recent video (Kublai) you were wondering why a chop went in a city instead of another one, the reason for that is the same as above

• Turn 123 is a big one:

Spoiler 123 adventures :

• Trireme wins against a barb Galley - The contrary would have been the most annoying thing there is in Civ.
• I get my failgold from the Parthenon. That's more than enough to reach Optics (700ish gold)
• Lib is gone I didn't intend to get it on this kind of map but that's still pretty early, and my tech rate isn't stellar to say the least..

On the same turn I renegociate some deals with Pacal -


Don't need the marble anymore, and that's pretty juicy

• On the same turn I decide to self-tech Machinery as I can't rely on trading it with Pacal and I have spare gold. Which means I have to get something for Compass before it's too late -

Spoiler tradez :

Building research is good when you run out of things to build (better than building early Harbors or Forges)

• On turn 127 Arabia discovers Machinery. A GS is born in Mecca (second Astro GS, but not quite ready to bulb it). No Academy here of course, I'd much rather bulb Chemistry, this capital is way too crappy. Hinduism spreads in Mecca. I immediately convert -- can now get Pacal to friendly because of the + res trades and + favorite civic. This allows a huge backfill after Astro (can trade for big techs on the way to Steel)

Spoiler friends forever? :

• On turn 129 the stone is hooked up and I get a pretty deal from the now friendly Pacal -

Spoiler halouf&cash :

• On turn 132 we discover the secret of Optics!!! Much earlier than I expected with this start, failgold was extremely important. Avoiding the "minimalist" strategy was definitely a good move, settling the riverside early and building cottages + working coast was key. I'm only building two caravels as Continents maps are quite predictable. Plan is now to put some beakers into Feudalism and trade Machinery or Optics to someone for the rest of it. Two explorers are also ready to board the Caravels.

Spoiler Optics details :

One Caravel will come on T133, the other one on T134 -


Btw that warrior you see in the queue was never built. Small mistake.

• I have Optics, Pacal doesn't... but he has something we wants real bad -

Spoiler in case you were wondering how I had these big hammers from chops :

Pretty hot
I need hunting either way for the soon-to-be-claimed Deers, and I'd rather get it before it counts towards WFYABTA for other civs.

Spoiler misc T132 stuff :

Commerce really not that bad considering the map, I think

• On turn 133 Pacal starts a golden age. Little punk.
• On turn 136 we meet Pacal's moustached friennemy -

Spoiler :

11 cities. War with Pacal. A little bit behind in score.

The diplo situation is really funny - Pacal is a bit masochistic


This means we can trade with Peter without getting WE trades problems. I immediately gift him 10 gold and get +4 fair trade relations. I get a pretty cool trade once again (he was close to Machinery, apparently)



After that I double-bulb Astro. Another GS coming soon.

Brave explorer disembarks in Russian territory -

Btw the Caravel survives the fight on the next turn

• On turn 137 I reach Astronomy. Finally open borders with Pacal. Some trade with our new friend -

Spoiler :

Spoiler post-Astro financial situation :

Bpt is not great but it's okay considering I'll get some trades + bulbs. Would be another story if I didn't have marble and had to self-tech everything on the way to Cannons.

• Pacal has Engineering already so I put some beakers into Guilds in order to trade Astro for Guilds+Engi (need to get Construction first)
• On turn 140 Peter takes a city from Pacal. It doesn't seem to bother him too much as he can still make peace. I meet these guys -

Spoiler new encounters :

Qin is score leader. Apparently Wang capitulated to him after DoW'ing Qin... Some weird diplo scenarios in this game lol. I gift them both 10 gold for +4 trade relations.

Neither of these guys has Compass not Litt. Some trades -




Wheat for 3gpt isn't great but better than nothing. I don't trade for Monotheism (even though I could have got it from Wang) because I don't want to hit WFYABTA with these guys, and otoh I can trade a lot with lonely Peter.

 

[Pedro78]

Second part to 800 AD.

Spoiler :

• On turn 141 I meet the big Hermit -

Spoiler whose red borders is this? :

He's the tech leader (as always). I give him a friendly trade in order to get him to pleased (forgot that we were in different religions)


...which obviously doesn't work. Can still get some gpt from this jerk -

• On the same turn I finally make THE trade with Pacal -

Spoiler Big&Small trades :

This will really speed me up big time on the way to Steel. Can start on Gunpowder right now. This leads to a -4 diplo hit with recently-met Peter though.


This is less important, but it's 60 gold and no WFYABTA with the other continent

• On turn 142 we keep trading stuff -

Spoiler :

Could have traded with Wang, but he wanted 100ish gold. I immediately revolt to Bureaucracy+Caste System (will get into Vass+Pacifism pretty soon)

• Some new cities are founded on the same turn -

Spoiler :

Can get the granary @size1 and still store 10 food thanks to the 2 workers chopping



These are founded a little late for my taste (another one to come in a few turns), but I also needed workers and early Astro, can't have everything I guess. Or simply have to play better

• On turn 143 we finally meet the last guy

Spoiler *girl :

And she lacks horses...


She is last in score, won Lib and is getting stomped by Toku. But the tech screen shows us that she actually isn't much of a threat tech-wise.


It's actually a very good thing that she won lib: she took it away from Pacal.

The diplo screen is also looking pretty favorable:


So I immediately bribe Toku off Lizzy, don't want her to capitulate here -


At least this guy won't trade it around

• On turn 145 our Russian friend overestimates our friendship -

Spoiler yeah sure, bro! :

• On the same turn Pacal gets Gunpowder. I trade Guilds+Optics for Philo to Wang (he was most likely teching one of these). I also beg 60 gold from Pacal because why not.
• On turn 146 I realize that Peter is now displayed as the Hindu founder (see the above pic), which means he has taken Pacal's second city. Interesting. I found my last city -

Spoiler soon-to-be-whipped :

The barb city is now sandwiched, but the CITY_DEFENSE longbows won't move. Won't take that city for a while as it has 5 longbows guarding it.

• On turn 147 I switch to Pacifism and the magic happens - take a look at these perfect numbers

Spoiler gpp paradise + theo trade :

Oh and these unworked towns burn my retinas


'cause Theocracy will be needed someday and WFYABTA is a thing blablabla

• On turn 148 I reach Gunpowder. Chemistry is double-bulbed. 13 turns to Steel. Finally broke the 300 bpt barrier.
• On turn 149 I find some weird stuff when scouting out the Maya -

Spoiler funny war :

Looks like he took the capital, then they made peace. Then he later pushed from there or some kind of stuff (can tell that Mutal has been taken and pacified for a while because only size 3). Pretty rare though. Pacal is still willing to make peace so I'm not worried yet. When Peter takes another city I'll stop the war. And then I'll kill them both

• On turn 150 Basra begins running merchants to get a GM, scheduled for T160

Spoiler gpp and tech situation :

Overall the game isn't won yet but it's in a pretty good position I think

(30 pictures limit forces double-post)

I'll update thoughts (a lot of thoughts) and city overview tomorrow. Saves attached for now.

Edit - By the way, @Lain did you continue playing, or restart, how did it go? Very interested to see how you play this one

 

[Lain]

Think I will pass on this one and join the next game. Just too hard to find commitment when I already know the map. Also, I would basically choose your approach since I don't see any better strategy. So at best my game would just be a copy -> not very motivational either. I just try to learn from my mistakes and use it next time instead.

Your game is looking pretty good aswell, looking forward to see how you wrap it up

 

[Pedro78]

Think I will pass on this one and join the next game. Just too hard to find commitment when I already know the map. Also, I would basically choose your approach since I don't see any better strategy. So at best my game would just be a copy -> not very motivational either. I just try to learn from my mistakes and use it next time instead.

So you're actually human, your motivation has limits (wasn't that obvious to me before ). Joke aside I'm totally incapable of re-playing a map I've already "failed". Glad that you'll play the next one

Next time I'll probably post some map that's actually more accessible, looks like this one scares people off lol.

Your game is looking pretty good aswell, looking forward to see how you wrap it up

Didn't play further yet, but I'm hoping to wrap it up with Rifles+Cannons (maybe add in Artillery). Will need some careful planning though.

 

[elmurcis]

Just to know that I'm following you too

 

[jatamixx]

Sally game T61

Spoiler roflcoming :

 

[Pedro78]

In five posts on these forums you've missed the Oracle by one turn twice, what's wrong with you?
Seriously though, I'm really not sold on the Orcale on this map -- it's very expensive to tech Poly+PH+Writing early on, and there is nothing really useful to grab. CoL will give you a religion, then what? You will have CoL but no Pottery, no BW and no commerce. IMO the Oracle is good in either low commerce situations where you have trading partners or in situations where you have a lot of excess commerce + some room to catch up with expansion later. Here the tech from the Oracle is not worth the investment. And it's always very risky. Btw skipping AH would have got you the Oracle there. I'm glad that there's someone new playing along, though.. Do you plan to continue?

 

[jatamixx]

plan was COL > go crazy with priests : build AP and Sankore. Shrine Confucianism. Avoid optics LOL.

 

[Pedro78]

Wew I've never tried that but tbh I don't think it can work. Wonders and shrines cannot make a solid economy on their own, especially when you don't have many AIs around.

In this video AZ plays a similar strategy that you're describing. Except the start/leader he's playing are much better and it's on a Pangaea... and it still doesn't work. You can argue that his micro isn't good and the strategy could be improved etc. but he nevertheless proves that this kind of niche strategy does not work on deity, and is far inferior to a normal approach. But it's certainly fun, could make a roleplay game with this kind of economy

 

[Pedro78]

I thought it would be a good idea to revive this thread. Hopefully this time I'll have more motivation to keep it going.

New map is a random Pangaea, playing as Portugal:


Good leader and great start, changes from previous maso maps

I'll let people discuss initial settling (even though it looks pretty obvious in this case) and then write-up for the first couple of millenia.
From what I've already played, it's quite an easy map but is nonetheless very rich in early choices. And don't forget that it's much harder to optimize an easy map than a tough one

Ofc anyone is welcome to play as long as he/she/it posts spoilerish stuff in spoilers. I'm sure we can learn a bunch of stuff together


(oh and the Saladin game is officially closed, unless someone really feels like necroing it)

 

[Pedro78]

Turn 56 (1760BC)

Spoiler writeup :

Obviously moved warrior 1E, didn’t reveal anything, settled 1SW –



We get our traditional-but-still-awesome-exp-10t-worker. Settling reveals a river, a floodplain and two plains hills to the north that can hold a potential gold-sharing city. Holding back on tech for the first 5 turns, and warrior making a small clockwise circle around Lisbon to meet a few AIs & reveal what’s up north to share the gold. EXP+IMP+Gold is soo powerful if you can get a decent food surplus.

On T5 I have only met Mao, which I have no idea where he is. Research set to Bronze Working.

Met Victoria on T6 and Sury on T7. EPs on Vicky.

T11. Worker is out. Goes to improve the gold. Start on a second worker.



T15. I cross paths with a barb warrior and win at 75% odds. Warrior reveals pigs to the north.



T17. BW. Worker starts chopping into the second worker. Research set to… Agriculture - The Wheel - Pottery

T20. Second worker out. Still working the gold. Both go in the forest to chop a settler.



T24. Settler is out. Revolt to slavery. Workers start improving the corn.

T26. Opporto is settled and immediately takes the gold. Starts on a Settler (15T). Corn is improved and Lisbon grows on a warrior, waiting for Pottery. Need fogbusters anyway. A barb city has spawned to the north, which is actually a good thing because I have other city spots and it fogbusts a big amount of land.



T34. Meet Ragnar

T35. Pottery. Win another fight against a warrior at 90%+ odds.

T36. Not sure what the EXP trait is for, it's definitely second-tier --



2T Granary with only one chop! Btw anyone who can guess why tiles are darker than usual in this screenshot will be awarded a virtual cookie

T37. Turn on avoid growth in Lisbon to get max regrowth.

T41. Opporto is done with the Settler, starts on a worker, still working the gold. Lisbon whips a Settler 5-3.

Cities #3 and #4 are settled on T42 and T44. Both start on a worker (without the EXP bonus but I’ll need these). On T44 one warrior is killed in city #3 by a barb Archer, allowing me to clean him up at 96% odds.

T46. I get a free fight.



UNITAI_CITY_DEFENSE barb Archers usually won't move of the city (small risk ofc)

City overview:



T49. Evora is founded



T51. Sury will OB. Immediately start roading towards him.

T55. Lagos is founded.

T56. Writing. OB with everyone. Library will be whipped in Lisbon in 2T. Overview:

• At some point a barb Archer entered my territory and attacked Guimares. Killed my first warrior but the second one cleaned him up at 95%+ odds. When your cities are hilled, if you can guard them with two warriors you're basically safe from early barbs (75% defense bonus)
• First time I try this kind of opener, never thought it would be this strong. Wouldn't be viable without gold+EXP+IMP though so it's not something you want to do in most games. Can't stress enough how strong EXP granaries are -- 30h investment allowed me to whip 3 settlers in 11 turns
• One warrior heading towards Sury's territory to hopefully find the last AI

Next stop can be any of Aesth, CoL, HAs or Elephants. Either of those implies banking gold for ~10T so I’ve got some time to make a decision. Right now I'm kinda leaning towards Elephants+Cats though, setup is very strong and I don't have any marble, so my cities would not be doing much until renaissance era if I chose to wait for Cuirs.

Been quite a while since I last played such a generous map.

 

[sampsa]

oh and the Saladin game is officially closed, unless someone really feels like necroing it

You calling it a loss then?

Concerning your new game, yeh Joao and some 2 city centers are pretty nice.

 

[Pedro78]

Uhh that's some disloyal baiting lol. Let's say I'll play out the Saladin game if you play the Joao one (or the next one if having read the spoilers already bothers you too much)

Seriously though, I think the Saladin game is in a pretty good position -- should be domination/conquest victory around T270, maybe even earlier.

Main thing in the Joao game was BFC gold and the ability to share it early. 2h city tiles & floodplains did help, but not having them wouldn't have made a big difference.

 

[Olafeson]

Lol @ the saladin start, you cheeky little cheeser

Double wet corn
double riverside gold + riverside silver
and starting on a PH with floodplains on top of the sugarcake.

What a delicious start. I hope you did not have to sell your soul to the devil for that capital.