put in this way, Great Wall really seems OP
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put in this way, Great Wall really seems OP
stealth_nsk
Deity
It could be a bit weaker, for example +1 fold for each 2 adjacent Great Wall tiles. We don't know yet.
Paramecium
Prince
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Farms and mines give + 1 food or production, until now it is unclear if there will be policy cards, technologies or further adjacency boni to push the output. Sure, it was stated that farms will get stronger late game, but in the beginning it is still open if +1 food will be more worth then +1 culture + 1 faith for example.
And the Great Wall seemed to be weak during the China First Look Video, but in the press build it was stated that the GW improvement gets boni from adjacent other gw improvement and hills. But it is still unclear what that will be and until now I had not found any China Lets Play where the wall was actually built.
EDIT: And yeah forgot to mention, that the GW will be available at masonary, that is way earlier then military engineers who will be able to build defense improvements...
Brazil's Amazonas UA is hard to tell for what it is the strongest. Sure, + 6 Science from Jungle is very good, but in fact it is just double the bonus for normal campi. Here it is definitely the actual bonus that Brazil has a jungle bias. And finding some good mountain sites with at least +2 or +3 plus adding later districts seems quite possible for other civs. Sure it is a strong start, but wont hold that long imo...
For Holy Sites it isnt that strong too because with a little bit of luck you can find natural wonders, mountain chains and normal forest somehow near together.
But in my opinion, Brazil will be strongest at culture and commercial. Theater Districts get normally a bonus from wonders which will be contested later and depending on location and difficulty it wont be easy to get a lot nearby so the + 6 culture from jungle is insane!
And the ch too. It was changed from each river edge to flat +2 for being adjacent to a river. And it is not that uncommon that there will be rivers in the jungle, so you can pump out a flat +8 gold from commercial hubs, supporting Brazil's GP focus.
In the end, Brazil depends very heavy on a good jungle location. Until now it is unclear for me, if tile improvements will remove the Amazonas UA bonus, district will do, but where bugged in the press build.
For me it seems, Brazil should focus on circling a jungle biom with cities and get at least one maxed out district per city.
For me it is still uncertain, if it is best to focus on one kind of yield as brazil or to try to get a bit of everything. Because the greatest disadvantage for Brazil is that it hasnt any production or food boni (still unsure what the neighborhood will give you exactly).
And especially now, Brazil can be quite f***ed if they start next to Kongo and it will be aggressive. It would be very hard to defend against its UU.
At least, I want to add sth to England. I think many people might forget the fact, that it seems like that more modern units will have a higher upkeep. You can see in Marbozir's Let's Plays that he have to pay -3 gold for medieval/renaissance units. So Englands free early melee Units will become later Redcoats and with a lot of Dockyyard, England will have the bonus gold plus trade routes to support a big army.
Yeah, but England will be screwed, if they start to an aggressive neighbor on their home continent. Teddy, Tomyris, Montezuma and later Catherine can be hard to defend off to save your own capital...
And the Great Wall seemed to be weak during the China First Look Video, but in the press build it was stated that the GW improvement gets boni from adjacent other gw improvement and hills. But it is still unclear what that will be and until now I had not found any China Lets Play where the wall was actually built.
EDIT: And yeah forgot to mention, that the GW will be available at masonary, that is way earlier then military engineers who will be able to build defense improvements...
Brazil's Amazonas UA is hard to tell for what it is the strongest. Sure, + 6 Science from Jungle is very good, but in fact it is just double the bonus for normal campi. Here it is definitely the actual bonus that Brazil has a jungle bias. And finding some good mountain sites with at least +2 or +3 plus adding later districts seems quite possible for other civs. Sure it is a strong start, but wont hold that long imo...
For Holy Sites it isnt that strong too because with a little bit of luck you can find natural wonders, mountain chains and normal forest somehow near together.
But in my opinion, Brazil will be strongest at culture and commercial. Theater Districts get normally a bonus from wonders which will be contested later and depending on location and difficulty it wont be easy to get a lot nearby so the + 6 culture from jungle is insane!
And the ch too. It was changed from each river edge to flat +2 for being adjacent to a river. And it is not that uncommon that there will be rivers in the jungle, so you can pump out a flat +8 gold from commercial hubs, supporting Brazil's GP focus.
In the end, Brazil depends very heavy on a good jungle location. Until now it is unclear for me, if tile improvements will remove the Amazonas UA bonus, district will do, but where bugged in the press build.
For me it seems, Brazil should focus on circling a jungle biom with cities and get at least one maxed out district per city.
For me it is still uncertain, if it is best to focus on one kind of yield as brazil or to try to get a bit of everything. Because the greatest disadvantage for Brazil is that it hasnt any production or food boni (still unsure what the neighborhood will give you exactly).
And especially now, Brazil can be quite f***ed if they start next to Kongo and it will be aggressive. It would be very hard to defend against its UU.
At least, I want to add sth to England. I think many people might forget the fact, that it seems like that more modern units will have a higher upkeep. You can see in Marbozir's Let's Plays that he have to pay -3 gold for medieval/renaissance units. So Englands free early melee Units will become later Redcoats and with a lot of Dockyyard, England will have the bonus gold plus trade routes to support a big army.
Yeah, but England will be screwed, if they start to an aggressive neighbor on their home continent. Teddy, Tomyris, Montezuma and later Catherine can be hard to defend off to save your own capital...
elitetroops
Deity
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Yeah, can't tell anything for sure before we know the details. It's kind of weird that even the in game popups don't reveal any more exact info about Great Wall effects, while they do give exact numbers for other unique tile improvements:
Spoiler :
That would suggest to me that it's some weird system that is more complicated than X base yield + Y bonus yield.
stealth_nsk
Deity
Yeah, can't tell anything for sure before we know the details. It's kind of weird that even the in game popups don't reveal any more exact info about Great Wall effects, while they do give exact numbers for other unique tile improvements:
Spoiler :
That would suggest to me that it's some weird system that is more complicated than X base yield + Y bonus yield.
Or it's just too long description
Kouvb593kdnuewnd
Left Forever
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Im pretty sure England is ment to play very aggressively. The nice thing about the extra unit is that it allow you to build up your army while you expand. Use these to attack other civs, you do not need to take cities just destroyed their districts and such will set them back and you don't really lose much if you lose free units.
I do not know how archaeological sites are created but if they are by violence it will just play in the hands of England.
I think England is designed to be a pure warmonger, it is not necessarily the strongest economy civ (although royal dockyards in masses seems very strong) but its ability to combine economical and military expansion mean it can build up and slow down its opponents without any major sacrifices.
With districts exposeded England could just camp the enemy districts from the early game and while england mostly have standard stuff, standard vs destroyed districts is edge to standard.
If you don't like early warmongering or warmongering in general then England may look weak but for those who do like it England will be a good pick.
I do not know how archaeological sites are created but if they are by violence it will just play in the hands of England.
I think England is designed to be a pure warmonger, it is not necessarily the strongest economy civ (although royal dockyards in masses seems very strong) but its ability to combine economical and military expansion mean it can build up and slow down its opponents without any major sacrifices.
With districts exposeded England could just camp the enemy districts from the early game and while england mostly have standard stuff, standard vs destroyed districts is edge to standard.
If you don't like early warmongering or warmongering in general then England may look weak but for those who do like it England will be a good pick.
Atlas627
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Standard bonuses are even more amazing for other districts. Commercial Hub normally will only get +2 from a river, but now it can easily get +6 from a river and 4 jungle tiles. Theater Square will normally only get +1 from a *Wonder*, but now it can get +1 per jungle tile!
So what if the Campus stacks with the normal rainforest boost? In comparison to how much of a boost you'd be adding to a Theater Square, this is nothing.
And they've made the continents much bigger in the Germany build. You wouldn't be settling on a foreign continent until you conquered through somebody or sailed to open land. I'm well aware that continent =/= landmass, but if you look at the new continent sizes you'll see that you probably aren't spawning at the border of 2 continents as England. This is because Victoria is bound to have a coast bias, and there's far more coast on one end of a continent than at the spot where 2 meet.
Does the ability to build the great wall expire at some point? Or can I still build it in modern times and gain instantly Tourism/Culture? Does the tile have to be worked to generate this output or are the yields automatic and the tile cannot be worked anymore (not even for the base yields of the underlying terrain)? I assume the latter and that it doesn't expire, which seems really, really strong. But it also costs quite some tiles of your empire. I can think of a culture victory strategy where you build otherwise useless new cities in the late game in the middle of nowhere just to fill the border tiles with GW to generate tourism.
ImperialChaos
President
Scythia. They aren't horsing around.
stealth_nsk
Deity
Yes, if there's rainforest and the river, commercial hub will be very strong. However, by midgame keeping unimproved rainforests near your first 2 cities will likely become burden.
Wonders remove rainforests.
I'm not saying Brazil is weak - it looks strong to me. I'm just not sure it's the strongest one. Other civs have comparable advantages.
Atlas627
Deity
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I don't recall the ability says they have to be unimproved rainforests.
I'm not sure what your point is, here. My point is that a single rainforest tile is as good as a Wonder tile for a Theater Square.
stealth_nsk
Deity
From the preview video:
This doesn't state explicitly what they have to be unimproved, though.
carter_the_memr
Chieftain
England looks like my new number one with my civ5 number one the shoshone getting removed
Moderator Action: Moved to Strongest civ thread
Moderator Action: Moved to Strongest civ thread
DJ_Tanner
Emperor
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Yeah, can't tell anything for sure before we know the details. It's kind of weird that even the in game popups don't reveal any more exact info about Great Wall effects, while they do give exact numbers for other unique tile improvements:
Spoiler :
That would suggest to me that it's some weird system that is more complicated than X base yield + Y bonus yield.
I think the real killer is the "must be build along the edge of empire". I think either you are going to have to wait for full border expansion or lose those bonuses, as well it will limit your potential for future expansion as well (or again risk those bonuses). I think there is a lot going on with the wall and it will be interesting to see how the whole thing shakes out.
Meh, don't lose your head over them.
stealth_nsk
Deity
Yes, they don't stop working.
Cyon
Cosmonaut
I think China will build the wall in ancient classical era along the border and not work the tiles in most cases since the pop is low and there are better tiles. Then later then they have large pop and the walls gives culture they will start working them.
If a hill is 2 production and a wall on it with neighbor walls on both sides get 4 gold and later 4 culture and later also 4 turism then that is a very nice tile!
If a hill is 2 production and a wall on it with neighbor walls on both sides get 4 gold and later 4 culture and later also 4 turism then that is a very nice tile!
Acken
Deity
Do we have some idea what the gold ratio per hammer is like in civ6 ? In civ5 gold was between 1:4 to 1:2.5 depending on the base cost and modifiers but it seems lower in civ6
Paramecium
Prince
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With the latest live stream, it is confirmed that Industrial Zones (IZ) still have their standard (+1) adjacency bonus for mines and quarries.
In the case the Hansa still get its bonus from Commcerial Hubs (CH) and ressources, it shows that Germany might have weaker IZs in the matter of raw production power than other civs.
So the Hansa is not that powerfull and would maybe as an UD with the same boni for Germany imbalanced. But the fact that Germany can construct it in any city without looking for the district limit is still the strong side (plus in half the time).
Germany will probably have all/a lot of their cities very strong in production compared to other civs. It can get further boosted if most of it cities will use their additional district for commercial hubs to push further the production outcome and get additional gold income which is always usefull.
So Germany's City will be likely stronger in production and gold in general average then the cities of other civs.
To beat Germany in production you have to focus on specializing to found a lot of production focused cities with all it pros and cons. Most likely this will only do civs focused on military/aggressive expansion. In the moment the Aztec, Japan and Scythia are most likely to do it.
But at the moment I think the true production monsters will be the Japanese if they can hold their stand until IZs and of course Electronic Factories (EF) are available. With the Meji Restoration Japan will be more likely to get their +6
IZs. And until now it was only mentioned that Japan's EFs will give boni to other cities not just their home city.
If you manage to get 2-4 IZs close together and build in every one an EF, Japan will go sky rocket in terms of production. It doesnt have a late game UU this time, but it will be in the lead of production and can pump units like crazy.
Not considering the fact that it will get a culture boost and therefor it might rush the civic tree and unlocking Corps and Armies. So Japan will be able to mobilize an huge army very quickly later in the game.
And giving the fact how powerfull coastal raiding can be (yeah, I think there might be at least on coastal raider unit for everyone) the Divine Wind ability helps greatly to defend your shore.
But in generall, it is hard to tell which civ is really the strongest. Too many open questions. But maybe the OP should be added to make a comparative basis. And I think the general opinion is that the standard is "Continent Map, Size Standard, Game Speed Standard". At least that is the configuration where all Civs are best to compare to each other. Alone the fact that there are now more naval UU shows the intention of Firaxis to give the seas more importance then before.
In the case the Hansa still get its bonus from Commcerial Hubs (CH) and ressources, it shows that Germany might have weaker IZs in the matter of raw production power than other civs.
So the Hansa is not that powerfull and would maybe as an UD with the same boni for Germany imbalanced. But the fact that Germany can construct it in any city without looking for the district limit is still the strong side (plus in half the time).
Germany will probably have all/a lot of their cities very strong in production compared to other civs. It can get further boosted if most of it cities will use their additional district for commercial hubs to push further the production outcome and get additional gold income which is always usefull.
So Germany's City will be likely stronger in production and gold in general average then the cities of other civs.
To beat Germany in production you have to focus on specializing to found a lot of production focused cities with all it pros and cons. Most likely this will only do civs focused on military/aggressive expansion. In the moment the Aztec, Japan and Scythia are most likely to do it.
But at the moment I think the true production monsters will be the Japanese if they can hold their stand until IZs and of course Electronic Factories (EF) are available. With the Meji Restoration Japan will be more likely to get their +6
IZs. And until now it was only mentioned that Japan's EFs will give boni to other cities not just their home city.If you manage to get 2-4 IZs close together and build in every one an EF, Japan will go sky rocket in terms of production. It doesnt have a late game UU this time, but it will be in the lead of production and can pump units like crazy.
Not considering the fact that it will get a culture boost and therefor it might rush the civic tree and unlocking Corps and Armies. So Japan will be able to mobilize an huge army very quickly later in the game.
And giving the fact how powerfull coastal raiding can be (yeah, I think there might be at least on coastal raider unit for everyone) the Divine Wind ability helps greatly to defend your shore.
But in generall, it is hard to tell which civ is really the strongest. Too many open questions. But maybe the OP should be added to make a comparative basis. And I think the general opinion is that the standard is "Continent Map, Size Standard, Game Speed Standard". At least that is the configuration where all Civs are best to compare to each other. Alone the fact that there are now more naval UU shows the intention of Firaxis to give the seas more importance then before.
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