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[Sansa_Stark]

With the latest live stream, it is confirmed that Industrial Zones (IZ) still have their standard (+1) adjacency bonus for mines and quarries.
In the case the Hansa still get its bonus from Commcerial Hubs (CH) and ressources, it shows that Germany might have weaker IZs in the matter of raw production power than other civs.
So the Hansa is not that powerfull and would maybe as an UD with the same boni for Germany imbalanced.

I disagree. Even if it was mines&quarries vs resources, the latter wins. Mineable resources, stone and marble work for both, so it is actually regular mines on hill vs other resources. Regular mines do not seem to be an important thing in Civ6, that seem to appear pretty rarely in playthrough, which has a good reason - there are tons of other things on the tiles. You can obviously adjust and build more mines around IZ, but I'd still say it as likely to get good spot with 2 adjacent resources as good spot with two mines.

And then there is +2 bonus from Commercial district, which is just huge, and you will plan all Hansas around this fact. I really don't see how Hansa could be weaker in terms of raw production.

 

[Paramecium]

And that is why I have written "might". From the seen Lets Plays so far, it is not that hard to find a 6 mines location. But it is hard to find spots with more than 3 adjacent ressources. But I agree, you are more free to place the Hanse, especially if sea ressources count too.

Sure, to get those 6 Mines is a hard deal too, you need at least 2 builders. But I just wanted to point out, that an IZ can (NOT is by default) be stronger than the Hanse. There even might be cases, that a player wont build the CH right from the start next to it, depending on the general growth of the City he might chose another district.


Especially with Japan where it will be quite easy to get those +6 production, It might be the Civ which will take the lead in production endgame ...

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

We need to play the game to understand the advantages and disadvantages of the Hansa. One nice thing about the Hansa is that you have control over where you place your commerce hubs which make it easy to place the hansa in good strategic locations for the factory area to reach as many cities as possible.

Naturally if you have good mine locations then you may lose out a bit on not having standard industrial district but hansa is half priced, do not use up a district slot and eventually you can put a commerce hub next to it.

 

[ThomasClark]

I recall Ed Beach talking about they wanted to design the Hansa differently to reflect its historical commercial nature, so in addition to the obvious commercial hub bonus, they wanted placement to be near resources rather than mines.

A big difference is actual placement flexibility. In fact, think about a coastal city, and placing a Hansa near 2-3 sea resources, a land resource, and a commercial hub. You're going to get strong production out of that spot that no other Civ would normally get with a regular IZ. In this, I wonder if Germany can be a sneaky naval powerhouse, getting stronger than usual production in their coastal cities.

And in regular in-land cities, I conclude the Hansa won't be weaker, but indeed it might not be substantially stronger. The placement flexibility is still there, and unique districts are inherently valuable just for not counting against the district/pop cap and being cheaper.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Hansa is always half the price and you pay production to eventually get more production so Hansa should have a much shorter return on investment time then industrial district.

Stave Church look to be very strong if you plan for a religious victory. Good wood locations are probably much more common then good mountain and especially natural wonders.

You can likely get some holy district completely encircled by woods which would mean that the stave church give +6 faith over the temple. Because the stave church is said to improve the adjacency bonus of holy district, its bonus should be effected by the scripture card (+100% holy district adjacency bonus) which should mean an optimally placed stave church can provide +12 faith over the temple.

In a religious game you will probably want a holy district in pretty much every city and Norway will probably have a massive advantage here, with 10 cities and an average of 3 wood per city Norway may produce +60 faith per turn over the stock civ without need to invest citizens to work unique improvements that provides faith.

 

[Paramecium]

To state things clear, I am quite sure that the Hanse is in general better then the IZ. Free District Count, build in half the time, huge bonus from ch which are not that hard to build for Germany because of their UA. And yeah, that the bonus is for ressources and I dont think it was mentioned that they have to be improved is stronger in the way to get those boni online quicklier, you dont have to build those mines and quarries.

But my only concern was, how good you can max out the boni. Like stated, an IZ maxed out place isnt that hard to find, it will just need way longer to get in online (normal build time, 2 builders needed, maybe the time to grow the city for the district slot).

But in general you can say each german city will have an hanse at some point and most likely a CH too.
But maybe it is possible to build 2 or 3 cities near to each other so one Hanse can get the bonus from 2 CHs which would be a flat bonus of +4 production. At least for 2 cities it would be easy to achieve, placing the CH and Hanse next to eachother and then vice versa in the other city the same. If it is a lucky position, there might be some ressource next by so maybe each hanse can connect to 2 or even 3 putting the output to +6/+7.

But I still have the oppinion that a clever district placing Japan Player with enough time could outproduce Germany in the lategame if he can manage to cluster 2, 3 or even 4 IZ near to each other and then placing the Electronic Factories, the production might go sky rocket.

But yeah, it all depends on the details. A lot of posters here in the forum mentioned, that their might be some area effect of factories. Until now, the only fact I heard about was the EF giving that.
Are there any other hints, that normal factories do that too? Or some other buildings like the possible third IZ buildings, the power plants?

 

[dturtle1]

.... get some holy district completely encircled by woods which would mean that the stave church give +6 faith over the temple. Because the stave church is said to improve the adjacency bonus of holy district, its bonus should be effected by the scripture card (+100% holy district adjacency bonus) which should mean an optimally placed stave church can provide +12 faith over the temple.

Yeah, it was i remember seeing a tooltip for +10 and Ed beach made a special comment about that scripture card.
Also sure the Electronics factory is strong but it does come later and therefore need to be more powerful. Movie Studio is strong too

I also think people are overselling Meij Restoration, sure adjacency bonuses are cool but you don't get extra districts. The district limits themselves require Population and therefore food which require tile improvement yields. I know the value of food is of less value with housing also now being important but this still within direct contrast to packing your cities as tightly as possible to maximise adjacency boni. I think Japan will benefit immensely from food trade routes but this is still a cost.

The main Civs i can't really put a finger on is India and Kongo to lesser degree ironically for similar reasons. The value of Founding an Early religion(or in Kongo's case...having to steal a neighbours ). Interesting as well they both have early, relatively powerful UU as well as having powerful Tile Improvements(or District) that deal with food and housing. Both Civ's benefit from actively spreading other religions and both Leaders have hard to quantify Leader and Unique Traits. Kongo's Relic Yield looks powerful, but how many slots will they have available,especially without a Holy District,(unless they again, steal it... and you have to find a city with one 1st, just so you can get more relic sites to go Cray-Cray yields ).I know you get Culture one as well but it still actively brakes runaway max/min-ing. The free apostle really just makes up for the Lack of faith from the Holy site. India's Faith bonus has high potential but also high variability. You will wanna explore.... and what happens with a continents map and you get stuck with all the atheists , you till have to wait a long time before you Bonus starts maxing out. If you upset a religious Civ(likely at some point)you lose the bonus anyway. There is also the increased risk of Religion based Civs not playing nicely with Gandhi's dream of free religion.

 

[Sylmarr]

First, just want to say hello everyone, as it's my very first post on this forum even if I'm registered for quite some time.

A lot of posters here in the forum mentioned, that their might be some area effect of factories. Until now, the only fact I heard about was the EF giving that.
Are there any other hints, that normal factories do that too? Or some other buildings like the possible third IZ buildings, the power plants?

Actually there is at least one proof (direct quote from the well-of-souls website), the suzerain bonus from the city state of Toronto :

Regional effects from your Industrial Zone and Entertainment Complex districts reach 3 tiles farther.

If this is true (and ino reason to think otherwise) we know that every entertainment complex and industrial zone have a regional effect. And that this effect can be boosted. Sure we do not know what kind of effect it is but it exist.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

It is worth mentioning that there are 100% cards for most if not all districts and they should work with Brazil and Japans unique abilities because these are also said to increase adjacency bonus.

Hansa probably get 2.5 production from a adjacent commerce hub because it probably also get the 0.5 neighbour district bonus as well.

Some unique units such as the Beserker do not replace a unit. The Beserker is a melee unit (unit category) in the medieval era (no melee unit is unlocked in the medieval era otherwise) and it do not need iron. It is cheaper then pikemen and as a melee unit it get +10 strength against anti cavalry units such as pikemen. Beserker is 40 strength +-7 (attacking/defending) and can pillage without ending its turn.

This unit give Norway a significant advantage in medieval era, as a melee unit it will kill pikes with easy which then make your knights able to move unopposed. While other civs can build swords they need iron and are weaker.

So unique units do matter alot in civilization VI.

 

[ThomasClark]

First, just want to say hello everyone, as it's my very first post on this forum even if I'm registered for quite some time.



Actually there is at least one proof (direct quote from the well-of-souls website), the suzerain bonus from the city state of Toronto :



If this is true (and ino reason to think otherwise) we know that every entertainment complex and industrial zone have a regional effect. And that this effect can be boosted. Sure we do not know what kind of effect it is but it exist.

Welcome Sylmarr! Thanks for providing that reference...I couldn't remember if that a was a policy card or where we had seen regional effects language.

So all IZ's get a regional effect - perhaps either once you hit a tech in the Industrial era, or once you build a factory? It'd be nice if Firaxis gave us more context for what the Electronics Factory actual bonus is...a regular factory must provide at least 2 production, and I'll say probably has or gets a regional effect. You could question whether a regular factory has a shorter distance than the EF, but I wouldn't see the logic for that bonus. If all the EF truly gave was +2 culture and +1 production, you could still stack that up with an adjacency card to be very meaningful across 6 cities. With a 100% bonus card, if you can build 4 of them to hit 6 cities (I'm just making up a reasonable number), you'd get +16 culture and +8 production in all 6 cities vs other civs (and +24 production in each city in actual yield). Big numbers, lot of speculation.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Im pretty sure it is the factory that have an area of effect bonus not the industrial district itself.

I assume a factory provides maybe +3 production to all cities within 4 tiles while the electronic factory give +3 production +2 culture and have a range of 6.

I assume you can stack multiple of these buildings but Im not sure.

Electronic factory come late so we should assume it is quite a powerful building and a significant improvement over the factory.

I wonder if there are any hidden benefit behind England Museum bonus. Maybe the more arts you have placed in the same location give you more stuff from each art. Like if each art add a +1 adjacency bonus to all other arts, then the normal museum would only be able to get a total adjacency bonus +2*3 = 6 vs england +5*6 = 30.

There are an inspiration for themed museums so it is likely that Engaland may have a huge advantage.

 

[Cyon]

Electronic factory is: +2 culture and +3 production for all cities within 6 tiles. So if you can build four of them do they reach four cities they will give +32 culture and +48 production totally! (8 culture, 12 production per city!)

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

If you get the city state they can reach even futher and thus reach more cities.

If England museum bonus is strong it may be a top pick for culture victories. Redcoats look to be pretty much the praetorians of civilization VI, they seems to kill musketmen effortless and likely most other units around its era as well.

America is definitely amongst the better culture civs as it have a whole unique building dedicated at tourism + its powerful national parks should prove very useful for such victory.

 

[dturtle1]

Electronic factory is: +2 culture and +3 production for all cities within 6 tiles. So if you can build four of them do they reach four cities they will give +32 culture and +48 production totally! (8 culture, 12 production per city!)

As long as they stack with each other, assuming they do sure but you are still giving up a lot of workable tiles to really max it. in order to get those kind of yields you are looking at extreme ICS, or at least halfway ICS where you have four cities close to each other with wide space between cores. I honestly dont think that going full ICS will necessarily be optimum due to food constraints but we will see. You also have build them all too, it is not like just plopping a unique district and watching the adjacency bonuses roll in.

 

[Khalid]

Do we have some idea what the gold ratio per hammer is like in civ6 ? In civ5 gold was between 1:4 to 1:2.5 depending on the base cost and modifiers but it seems lower in civ6

Based on the Norway livestream it seems to be 1:4. Andrew could buy a granary for 260g and it costs 65 production, Stave church 420g and 105 production. The same for his longship with 260g and 65 production.

It seems however, that buying buildings will be better than units as with the +100% production to units policies its better to actually hard build units. E.g. the granary could be build in 4 turns (17.1 hammer per turn in Nidaros), while he could produce the longship in 2 turns.

 

[Acken]

Disapointing. With the absence of gold gifts to cs it would mean gold is once again a weak yield considering the oportunity costs I see in the streams.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Specialist produce 4 gold but only two of all other resources. Trade is by far the main gold source and you can use it to purchase great people now.

 

[ThomasClark]

Of course, if the base ratio is 4:1 and a Commerce Hub specialist makes 4 gold, that is the same as only making 1 hammer, worse than an Industrial Zone specialist making 2 hammers - or a heavy price to pay for flexibility.

 

[Sansa_Stark]

Just wanted to revisit this thread. It seems much more interesting now, at least to me. I think this started when Scythia or Germany was revealed, and I think it was pretty straightforward discussion at that time - it seemed that civs like Brazil, Germany or China would be among the better, and France or Egypt little worse.

But now we have a lot of civs with quite a unique gameplay - Kongo, India, Spain, Norway and Sumeria, and I think it became much more complicated to make any reasonable comparison. But if I had to choose with a gun pointing to my face, I'd say Brazil, Japan, China, Germany, Rome and Aztecs are the top tier, and France, Egypt and America are the weakest.

However, my main guess that civs are much better balanced this time, and we will not be able to create (after playing the game I mean) 5 tiers easily, like we were in Civ 5 - where the difference between Poland/Babylon and Iroquois/France was easily four tiers.

 

[Siptah]

I don't think we can see much of an overall best civ at it is now anymore. We have to really play the game and compare.
But I can see that certain strategies for certain civs might be extremely strong. But a single strategy that works extremely well doesn't make the whole civ a top tier one, right?