[Vote] (6-31) GPTI Bonuses Scaling

[axatin]

Proposal (6-31): GPTI Bonuses Scale on Great Engineer, Great Merchant, and Great Scientist

You only get GPTI bonuses if you build them. They don't work if you only captured them.

Very big, an OP human exploit. Capture an AI city, rebuild their GPTIs, and trade/lose it back to them, and their Great People Bulb will be reduced for the rest of their game.

Specialist Type	Current	Proposed
Great Engineer	Scales off your average production out of every City + instant production multiplied by Manufactories that you build and currently control.	Scales off your average production out of every City + instant production multiplied by Manufactories that you currently control.
Great Merchant	Scales off your average net(or gross if that proposal gets passed) gold per turn out of every City + instant gold scaled by Towns that you build and currently control.	Scales off your average net(or gross if that proposal gets passed) gold per turn out of every City + instant gold scaled by Towns that you currently control.
Great Scientist	Scales off your average science out of every City + instant science multiplied by Academies that you build and control.	Scales off your average science out of every City + instant science multiplied by Academies that you currently control.

Original thread: GPTI Bonuses Scale on all GP Units (Great Engineer, Great Merchant, and Great Scientist Affected) by @Enginseer

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Proposal (6-31a): Great People Bulbs Scale on Number of GPTI Ever Built

Currently the scaling on Great Merchant, Great Scientist and Great Engineer bulbs is only on GPTI you built AND own.
I propose to change the requirement to built only. Whether you still own the improvements shouldn't matter.

This is a decent buff to tall, and also a very slight incentive to spread out your GPTI, as even if your satellite city gets captured you still keep the benefits of enhanced bulbs.

Original thread: Great People Bulbs Scale on Number of GPTI Ever Built by @azum4roll

 

[Rekk]

For 6-37, I will reiterate what I said on the original thread:

This "human exploit" is the *opposite* of OP; it's a bad strategy. You've already taken the warmonger penalty for conquering the city. You can deprive them of GPTIs by ... just keeping it.

Just no. This mechanic is specifically intended to reward building GPTIs and keeping them. It's not a bonus for conquerors.

 

[Diomedes_]

So if the first proposal gets passed, warmongers who conquer cities will get the benefits from gptis?

 

[Enginseer]

So if the first proposal gets passed, warmongers who conquer cities will get the benefits from gptis?

yes

 

[pineappledan]

This proposal fundamentally misunderstands why it was changed to the version we have now. It is a step back.

This should be locked; it's just not a reversion we should be seriously considering. Re-litigating thoroughly considered choices like this only to revert them back years later when the community has lost their institutional memory is a waste of everyone's time.

 

[Diomedes_]

I don't know, I think conquering tall civs for their gptis should be a legitimate strategy, in the same way that you can conquer a civ for their religion.

 

[pineappledan]

Conquerors are compensated plenty by getting the GPTI's large tile yields, you just don't get the bulb power. The bulb power is a reward for generating a new GP.

Think of it like how most wonders have a permanent bonus and an up-front bonus, like instant yields or a free building. If you conquer the city with that wonder you get the permanent bonus from that wonder, but not the instant bonus.

 

[Diomedes_]

But you get the scaling bonuses from great works you came to own through city conquest, so why wouldn't gptis work the same way? I also don't think that getting the scaling bonuses from conquered gptis would be op. It just seems fair, frankly.

 

[pineappledan]

It is good that there are incentives for building things that can't be co-opted by others through murder.

If the GW theming scaling is a bee in your bonnet then I would suggest we find some way to remove scaling from captured GWs, and not the other way around. We have more than enough incentives for conquest in the game without giving them literally everything their victims had.

 

[FinMc]

This proposal fundamentally misunderstands why it was changed to the version we have now. It is a step back.

This should be locked; it's just not a reversion we should be seriously considering. Re-litigating thoroughly considered choices like this only to revert them back years later when the community has lost their institutional memory is a waste of everyone's time.

Thank you for mentioning this

I don't know what the solution is but I completely agree the Congress should not become a circle of rolling out changes and then walking them back again later.

The best projects have community input but still maintain a strong core design philosophy (it's not a democracy its a dictatorship open to feedback) to prevent feature creep/endless looping.

In retrospect this does seem like a massive warmonger buff, although given AI sucks at domination maybe not the worst? Strong for a human though for sure.

 

[azum4roll]

This is peak democracy.

Now vote for my counterproposal which steps the other way

 

[Stalker0]

MAGI: I cleaned up the language on 6-30 to focus on the GE, GS, and GM. the fact that it mentions all GPs but then only really impacts 3 of them I found extremely confusing, so this should focus the proposal on the things that are actually changing.

 

[hokath]

Now vote for my counterproposal which steps the other way

You make a compelling argument. I'm in.

 

[dostillevi]

Now I want the one option that isn't proposed: bulbs that scale on any GPTI ever built by the bulber, in addition to any GPTI currently owned. So, you get all the GPTI benefits from any of the GPTI you built regardless of whether you currently own them, and you'd also get the bonus from any GPTI that you currently own. Yes, this means the same GPTI would be counted by multiple civs.

 

[azum4roll]

Now I want the one option that isn't proposed: bulbs that scale on any GPTI ever built by the bulber, in addition to any GPTI currently owned. So, you get all the GPTI benefits from any of the GPTI you built regardless of whether you currently own them, and you'd also get the bonus from any GPTI that you currently own. Yes, this means the same GPTI would be counted by multiple civs.

That'll just scale crazy for everyone.