[Vote] (6-64) Balancing Classical Era UB - Runestone

[Achico]

Currently in this Era we have some very strong building like Burial Tomb, Floating Gardens, Satrap’s Court and Harappan Reservoir.

On the other side we have Runestone and Tetraconch. They are also strong enough compared to ancient era UB but they could be a bit better with little changes.

Bulding	Current	Proposed	Reasoning: the majority of Classical Era UB have 3-5 additional basic yields + some bonuses from other sources.
Runestone	+2 Culture - 1 Gold on maintenance When a Unit created by this City pillages a Tile, gain 30 Culture in this City, scaling with era. +25% production towards melee, Gun, and Naval Melee Units +2 Food and +1 Gold from Coast and Ocean tiles. Internal Trade routes from this City generate +4 Food. Forms a City Connection with other Cities via water if they also have Runestones	+2 Culture No maintenance cost When a Unit created by this City pillages a Tile, gain 30 Culture in this City, scaling with era. +25% production towards melee, Gun, and Naval Melee Units +2 Food and +1 Gold from Coast and Ocean tiles. Internal Trade routes from this City generate +4 Food. Forms a City Connection with other Cities via water if they also have Runestones	Runestone have only +2 Culture (2 yields away from ordinary lighthouse). Therefore it’s proposed to remove -1 gold from maintenance.

I hope these changes are not for the worse


Database Changes

 

[Anarcomu]

I think the added production from Runestone means a lot, it might well make the building very strong.
And for the Tetraconch, it already have a scaling faith bonus ; the 10% faith to culture is small though.
You say about 3 yields on the Tetraconch ; however you probably build it in mostly-well developed cities (it cost quit a bit at this stage of the game), and those cities tend to have at least 6 pop, which mean a 5 yields difference (more for more populated cities). I don't think they need an extra faith.

 

[Achico]

I think the added production from Runestone means a lot, it might well make the building very strong.
And for the Tetraconch, it already have a scaling faith bonus ; the 10% faith to culture is small though.
You say about 3 yields on the Tetraconch ; however you probably build it in mostly-well developed cities (it cost quit a bit at this stage of the game), and those cities tend to have at least 6 pop, which mean a 5 yields difference (more for more populated cities). I don't think they need an extra faith.

Runestone: Right now this +1 bonus only affects water resources. (normal tiles have 4 Food and 1 gold). In my mind, adding +1 production on them will make Runestone just a bit closer to the Aztec's floating gardens or Askia's Tabya. Otherwise water tiles without resources are not even worked by citizens.

Tetraconch: Probably this 1 faith wouldn't make much differencies but.... these low basics yields just make you look sad sometimes. +4 faith looks more solid than the standard +3 (I know it's a bad reasoning)

 

[Anarcomu]

Runestone : they already add +1 food to sea tiles compared to regular lighthouse, most early resource-less farms don't match those yields (grassland on river get 4 food without gold), and even then, it takes worker time to get those improvements.

Tetraconch : I don't really mind the +1 faith, it wouldn't impact my decision regarding this proposal.

 

[Achico]

Well, it makes sense, I removed the part with the production.

 

[Enginseer]

I will sponsor this.

 

[Hinin]

MAGI - It has been decided to split this proposal into two during the poll phase. The Tetraconch part will become proposal 6-95 and will be removed from this thread.

 

[azum4roll]

Runestone compared to Lighthouse:

No coastal requirement
+2 Culture
+1 Food on Coast and Ocean tiles
Gain 30 on pillage for units originated from this city, scaling with era
+25% Production when producing Melee, Gun and Naval Melee units

Does it really need a 6th ability?

 

[pineappledan]

This is needless

 

[Rekk]

Completely unnecessary to have yet another building with no maintenance cost.

It's not even a "gold" building like bank/market.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Runestone compared to Lighthouse:

No coastal requirement
+2 Culture
+1 Food on Coast and Ocean tiles
Gain 30 on pillage for units originated from this city, scaling with era
+25% Production when producing Melee, Gun and Naval Melee units

Does it really need a 6th ability?

Why this differ from the op?

 

[Rekk]

Why this differ from the op?

The OP includes the lighthouse abilities. Azum4roll is showing the current differences from lighthouse.

 

[adan_eslavo]

The OP includes the lighthouse abilities. Azum4roll is showing the current differences from lighthouse.

Ok, that makes sense. Indeed, there are lots of abilities. No need for one more.

 

[Achico]

Firstly, I guess six abilities is still normal. For example, in classical era we have floating gardens with six abilities from ordinary Water Mill:
+ 2 Culture
+ 1 Food,
+ Food pop scaler,
+ 10% food from golden ages
+ 2 Food from lakes,
+ 1 Food from rivers

... so far, everyone is satisfied with this

Secondly, Runestone itself is just a huge rock with writings. If I understand correctly, It does not require special maintenance in comparison with ordinary buildings IRL

 

[Rekk]

Firstly, I guess six abilities is still normal. For example, in classical era we have floating gardens with six abilities from ordinary Water Mill:
+ 2 Culture
+ 1 Food,
+ Food pop scaler,
+ 10% food from golden ages
+ 2 Food from lakes,
+ 1 Food from rivers

... so far, everyone is satisfied with this

Secondly, Runestone itself is just a huge rock with writings. If I understand correctly, It does not require special maintenance in comparison with ordinary buildings IRL

You had to stretch to make it 6. I would count 4.

Secondly, huge rocks with writings aren't known to make it easier to fish or allow merchant ships to travel further. It's a game, games have rules, we try to limit rules breaking to abilities that are cool. Making a building randomly have no maintenance is not a cool rule-breaking ability.

 

[Achico]

You had to stretch to make it 6. I would count 4.

Secondly, huge rocks with writings aren't known to make it easier to fish or allow merchant ships to travel further. It's a game, games have rules, we try to limit rules breaking to abilities that are cool. Making a building randomly have no maintenance is not a cool rule-breaking ability.

If you strain yourself, you can remember that Floating Gardens have no requirements for fresh water. Total 7 abilities by now. You need to really contrive to count only 4.

Secondly, the game should still have at least some connections with reality. A huge rock with writings can serve as a reference point for ships, thereby enhancing fishing and water trade, but this does not mean that heaps of gold should certainly be spent on it. Therefore, there is no talk about randomness here.

 

[ma_kuh]

Why are we counting abilities and deciding if things need more or fewer abilities based on this?

You can just as easily say weather will wear at the runestone, and routine maintenance is required to keep it from eroding away. You need to pay the person who reads the lore. Theme isn't an issue here.

Is 1gpt more going to change when you build the runestone? This won't do anything either way, the game isn't tight enough that 1gpt is making the difference anywhere other than the very start of the game. What is DOES do is add inconsistency with when maintenance is applied, and that is reason enough to reject this change.

 

[rkkn]

even if it does need a buff, this isn't the way to do it